Pope Francis Must Resign: Archbishop Vigano

  • Thread starter Thread starter TigerLily-1
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
kyrie03 said:
What HAS become clear with the McCarrick and Pennsylvania situations, is that there has been culture of disordered and even predatory behavior tolerated along with secrecy to cover the scandal.
Click to expand...
I do not think the secrecy and cover-up is clear. The only person who knew of this and kept quite, that we factually know kept quiet, was AB Vigano himself. Speculation in an absence of any concrete evidence is not an exercise of charity. I have no problem with an investigation of the allegations. The response of Catholics toward the Pope, when the evidence of his involvement has not been shown, is what I find scandalous.
 
From the article:
What’s hard not to notice is that reaction from the bishops, at least to this point, breaks along eerily predictable ideological lines - the more liberal a bishop is perceived to be the more likely he is to disbelieve Viganò, and vice-versa.
Click to expand...
I am glad someone else said it. It is good evidence of confirmation bias, and why nothing said by AB Vigano should be considered accurate without collaborating documents or witnesses, and I do not mean more witnesses that want to topple the Pope. The whole “going into hiding because they are going to kill me” does not give me much confidence in the man’s mental stability.
 
Last edited:
So it ends up that you will trust no one who corroborate s any of Vigano’s claims because they also are just politically motivated. Hopeless.
 
tafan2 said:
So it ends up that you will trust no one who corroborate s any of Vigano’s claims because they also are just politically motivated
Click to expand...
Nope. That is not what I said. If you can not reason better than that, then I understand why AB Vigano’s letter is difficult.
 
Parts of his letter have been cooraberated,
  1. sanctions by Benedict
  2. a meeting between the nuncio ( not Vigano) and an angry McCarrick
  3. the Archbishop of Washington cancelling a event that McCarrick was to participate in, on instructions from Vigano
  4. McCarrick moving out of the seminary
Yet, none of this is adequate for you (you seem to say nothing has been cooraberated). because anyone who does so is out to get Pope Francis.

I think my summary of your position is sound.
 
There is some mystery regarding the sanctions. We don’t know their exact nature nor how they were enforced. The certainly seem to have existed, however, as they’ve been corroborated by multiple named sources at this point.

I’m now waiting to see the memos and documents possessed by the Vatican and the Office of the Nucio.
 
I posted on this earlier as yo all of the evidence. On my phone now and I do not have time. I will look for my post in the morning.
 
Who reported the “going into hiding because they will kill me”

Here is Vigano’s only interview that I know of, he says nothing even remotely suggesting this or any other paranoia

Loading…

onepeterfive.com

I think it is just another attempts to besmirch the man’s good name, which is the only defense that has been made aware that the letter since Sunday as far as I can tell.
 
Last edited:
pnewton said:
40.png
phil19034:
If these allegations are true, then the Pope should resign, and all Cardinals he appointed should have their red hats removed.
Click to expand...
Someone else does not know how the Catholic Church works. The Pope is a position for life. Pope Benedict’s resignation (he said for health) is an aberration. Pope’s do not resign with every wind of politics or media outrage. The Cardinals who are appointed are not a cabinet that go out with the Pope. Even if the Pope made a stupid decision, or a foolish move, he does not resign. If every allegation was true, though as vague as they are, I do not even know what that means, he does not resign.

Sheesh. The more I read hear the more I see the wisdom in refusing to bow to those who can’t get the Western model of politics out of their head. There is no doubt in my mind, seeing those who call for his resignation and the past posts, past politics, that the calls for resignation are more to do with who the Pope is than anything he has done. It is not coincidence that people like Michael Voris has called for his resignation, and Cardinal Burke has been suggested as the man for the papacy.

This is exactly why the Pope is pope for life. If you don’t get that, you don’t get the Catholic Church.
Click to expand...
This was not a very charitable post. I perfectly understand well how the Church works.

My point is simply this: if the allegations are true, then for the good of the Church, the Pope and all the American Cardinals and bishops named should resign for the good of the Church.

I didn’t say they must resign, because no one can make the Pope do that. However, I would hope for the Good of the Church he would do that since Pope Francis is the one who was reciently preaching about zero tolerance.

God Bless
 
Last edited:
We should keep in mind that the allegations against the Holy Father may be true, but not near as damning as would appear on the surface ( this is likely the case IMO, as I detailed a couple of times already) and although they would reflect bad judgement, would not rise to the level of necessitating France’s resignation in anyway.

What I wish everyone was focused on, and thankfully the American bishops appear to be, is the document as a whole and determining who knew, protected, or aided McCarrick all these years. Not just the one allegation against the Pope.
 
Thankyou. I will note, not just to you, but to others, that in all of the Pope Francis controversies to date, Weigel had consistently remained silent. He cannot be labeled, in any fashion, someone out to get the Pope. Is he conservative? Yes (although he would hate being labeled that with respect to the faith), anti-Francis? No
 
Last edited:
phil19034 said:
My point is simply this: if the allegations are true,
Click to expand...
I would say this would depend on which allegation you refer to. If the allegation of a homosexual conspiracy was true, then of course it would be best. If the allegation that he knew of McCarrick’s sanctions, then no, I do not see how such knowledge is damning in itself, though maybe, depending on the exact nature of the sanctions, and how much knew about what the sanctions were for.

As for the idea that he was protecting McCarrick, I will point out again that he removed McCarrick from the public a month before AB Vigano wrote his letter, and when AB Vigano, by his own admission, was still silent about what he knew.
 
tafan2 said:
Who reported the “going into hiding because they will kill me”
Click to expand...
You did,Tafan…
In the One Peter Five you posted,there is a " click here" with the Valli narration . There it is that he has gone for safety reasons because he fears for his life.
But no worries,it is a bit of a salad of info right now. We forget,it happens…
 
Last edited:
Hold on a second…
Now,go to your post 688 where it says sth like "Sequestered,I am not the crow "
There it is . Inside that article you will find a “click here”
 
Last edited:
One more thing about the character reference by George Weigel, while his personal relationship carries weight with me, so does my own experience sifting through written language. I would hope everyone would take time to read the AB’s letter. I think it hard to come away thinking of it as some objective testimony as of a witness to a crime. It is loaded with hurt, pain, and anger. While I do not judge a man for this, as the cause could be just, such emotional conflict in one’s mind will change perception and even facts.

edit - I found this article

http://www.catholicnews.com/service...iganos-text-and-how-are-catholics-to-know.cfm

It started me to thinking. It points out two people who had supposedly helped AB Vigano draft this letter. I wonder if the inflammatory language in it is characteristic of the AB, or if he was used by others for the sake of his name. I mean, if there was help in writing it by journalists, and then sent to journalists, then his role in it is important, and his testimony, as presented here, may not be his testimony.

The more I hear, the more I think Cardinal diNardo is spot on. The McCarrick situation needs to be fully investigated; his career advancement, and the points raised in this letter, as much for the defense of the innocent as the reform that is needed.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top