Pope Francis Must Resign: Archbishop Vigano

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Perhaps those who find truth in Vigano’s testimony actually believe what the Church has always taught: that sodomy is always mortally sinful. And should one fall into this or any mortal sin without repenting, confessing, and resolving to avoid the sin and occasions of sin that hellfire is the just punishment.

“The Rite of Sodomy” by Randy Engel details the widespread disorder inflicting the Church.

Rod Dreher has many stories from former seminarians and priest who are relating to him their personal stories of witnessing the acceptance of homosexuality by those in the upper levels of the hierarchy.

Here’s just one excerpt from a Catholic priest: “When there are severe power imbalances is when you get exploitative and predatory behavior. If I had to point to one thing that is the biggest problem it would be the almost absolute power of bishops over their priests with priests having little to no ability to report the abuse of that power. Bishops keep us in check with the laity when they get complaints. Bishops don’t like complaints and that’s probably a good thing because it does keep some kind of check on priests. But there is nothing checking the bishop’s power. Then you realize that some of the men in that cabal are not even necessarily aware of their own compromised psychology and are themselves either asexual, just weird, or gay and unaware. The reality is always going to be that the sexuality of the priesthood is going to mirror the sexuality of the culture. The same issues and problems with sexuality in the culture are going to be present in the priesthood because they are the same problems present in families and among all men whether they be fathers or priests. I know this to be true because I hear confessions.”

www.theamericanconservative.com

Letter From A Frustrated Parish Priest

Cleric: If we speak out against corruption, the bishop will ruin our lives
www.theamericanconservative.com www.theamericanconservative.com

And let’s not forget Frank Keating, former governor of Oklahoma, who resigned in 2003 as chairman of the church-appointed panel that was seeking to resolve the sexual abuse scandal involving priests and minors.

In his resignation letter, Keating said the church is “home to Christ’s people. … It is not a criminal enterprise. It does not condone and cover up criminal activity. It does not follow a code of silence. My remarks, which some bishops found offensive, were deadly accurate. I make no apology. To resist grand jury subpoenas, to suppress the names of offending clerics, to deny, to obfuscate, to explain away; that is the model of a criminal organization, not my church.”

www.nytimes.com

Refusing to Recant, Keating Resigns as Church Panel Chief (Published 2003)

Frank Keating refuses to back down from blunt criticism of Roman Catholic bishops and resigns as chairman of church-appointed lay panel trying to resolve sexual abuse scandal; photo; Keating likened some bishops to 'La Cosa Nostra' for alleged efforts to cover up extent of molestation by priests (M)
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

Who is denying, explaining away?

How many Bishops really care about deviant behavior, if it’s between consenting adults? It’s not gonna change if they see nothing wrong.
 
…dripping with resentment. And paranoia, settling scores. Who are you to judge?
 
Can you also hear what is being said?

Shouldn’t the serious allegations be investigated?

Again, you’re providing snapshots in an attempt to prove your point that there were no sanctions. Let’s take this photo as the PROOF and quash any investigation. Let’s allow speculations to be our truth.
 
If Pope Francis is going to be investigated based on these claims, that is fine. Now that allegations were made, there should be an inquiry.

I think there should also be an investigation into Vigano and on who else was involved in producing this letter. I strongly suspect that there is a lot more to this than just an old Vatican official trying to clear his conscience.
 
kyrie03 said:
Perhaps those who find truth in Vigano’s testimony actually believe what the Church has always taught: that sodomy is always mortally sinful.
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Sodomy is not always mortally sinful, though it is always a mortal sin, that is the matter is grave. For the sake of charity and to avoid rash judgement, I would go with the assumption that all Catholics believe this.
kyrie03 said:
How many Bishops really care about deviant behavior
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I am going to guess, all.
kyrie03 said:
…dripping with resentment.
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I am curious as to your impression of the letter. It reads like nothing I have ever seen written by a bishop or theologian in the Church. The link I posted had a good article. I think the consensus of all is that their should be an investigation into how McCarrick got his position, stayed on, moved around, whether there is some sort of homosexual conspiracy, etc.
 
Canvas said:
I think there should also be an investigation into Vigano and on who else was involved in producing this letter. I strongly suspect that there is a lot more to this than just an old Vatican official trying to clear his conscience.
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I don’t imagine a story like this one will simply die out. Certainly we can hope it doesn’t. Yes, everything about it needs to be investigated and considered…including the possibility that it is all true. I’ve just joined this thread and haven’t read through it so I don’t know if this account has already been provided.

onepeterfive.com

The Amazing Story of How Archbishop Viganò’s Report Came to Be

This report, originally published by Italian blogger, journalist, and author Aldo Maria Valli, tells the story of how Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò, former apostolic nuncio to the United States…
onepeterfive.com onepeterfive.com
 
A couple of quick points that mostly capture how I feel about Vigano’s assertions:
  1. I am absolutely convinced that Vigano is motivated by internal Church politics, and I think his past history bears that out.
  2. That said, it would not surprise me much if what he is saying were true or mostly true, as I believe at least the last few Popes have known much more about the abuse in the Church than has been admitted.
  3. The fact that many (if not most) in the Church hierarchy seem to view the abuse crisis as an opportunity to score political points or advance their own causes is extraordinarily disappointing, and highlights the depth of the crisis in leadership within the Church. To be clear, that applies to both “sides” - whether “progressive” or “traditional.”
 
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pnewton said:
It started me to thinking. It points out two people who had supposedly helped AB Vigano draft this letter. I wonder if the inflammatory language in it is characteristic of the AB, or if he was used by others for the sake of his name.
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I have wondered about that, too. I know Vigano has confirmed that he wrote it (though with help), but I can’t help but think that some of the contents (such as a potshot at Fr. James Martin) are coming from those who helped him draft it.

I do hope the claims Vigano makes are investigated. If they are false, then they should be exposed as false. If they are true, they should be confirmed as true. I’m guess there is going to be a mix of both—some things that are true, some things that are somewhat true but exaggerated, and some things that are simply false.
 
I strongly suspect there was American involvement in preparing parts of this letter.
 
Never mind if the allegations are true…let’s attack the messenger, let’s impugn his motives, let’s speculate on a conspiracy, let’s focus on politics.
 
Do you also assume that Cardinal McCarrick, a Catholic, believes that sodomy is a mortal sin? I completely understand and agree with your point about rash judging….only God can see the heart. However, it’s difficult to look at his actions and explanations of “just cuddling” and still trust he believes sodomy to be a grave offense.

Whatever happened to the 300 page 2 volume set of documents delivered to Pope Benedict alleged to have exposed blackmail, corruption, and gay sex at the Vatican? According to reports (I have no idea if it is true or not) the result of the 9 month investigation prompted the resignation of Pope Benedict. He said he would give the dossier to his successor. What has Pope Francis done with the information he received?

www.usatoday.com

Report: Pope resigned in wake of gay priest scandal

Pope transfers top official amid speculation about report on Vatican leaks scandal.
www.usatoday.com

As you guess that probably all Bishops view sodomy as deviant behavior, would you be in favor, as is Bishop Athanasious Schmieder, that the Roman Curia and episcopate be cleansed of homosexual cliques and networks?

Would you be in favor of the following suggestions of the Bishop?
  1. That the Pope will proclaim unambiguously the Divine doctrine about the grievously sinful character of homosexual acts.
  2. That there will be issued peremptory and detailed norms, which will prevent the ordination of men with a homosexual tendency.
  3. That the Pope restores the purity and unambiguity of the entire Catholic doctrine in teaching and preaching.
  4. That there will be restored in the Church through papal and episcopal teaching and through practical norms the ever valid Christian ascesis: the exercises of fasting, of corporal penitence, of abnegations.
  5. That there will be restored in the Church the spirit and the praxis of reparation and expiation for sins committed.
  6. That there will start in the Church a securely guaranteed selection process of candidates to the episcopacy, who are demonstrably true men of God; and that it would be better to leave the dioceses several years without a bishop rather than to appoint a candidate who is not a true man of God in prayer, in doctrine and in moral life.
 
These threads are starting to look like the US political threads over in World News: partisans on each side made up their mind immediately based on which ideology they agree with and the posts they make are just carrying water for the party.

I appreciate those who are staying neutral and waiting for the truth to come out (and, in some cases, you’re chasing it down in small pieces).

As John Allen observed in Crux: “Right now, in fact, one could say that Viganò overnight has become the Whittaker Chambers of the Catholic Church. Just as whether one believed Chambers about Alger Hiss was a marker for broader ideological alignments in the Cold War, at the moment one’s reaction to Viganò may say more about political assessments of Francis than about the hard evidence.”
 
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I’m going to hazard a guess that the report of the 3 Cardinals handed to Pope Benedict on December 17, 2012, could help shed light on Vigano’s testimony.
 
For the sake of transparency and getting to know the full story, would you be in favor of the investigative work of the 3 Cardinals be released?

And as for these snapshots and video clips you are posting, could you entertain the possibility that, as the Vatican’s diplomat to a function at which Cardinal McCarrick is present, that Vigano would use common courtesy to acknowledge the presence of the Cardinal? The fact that McCarrick was under sanctions was not public knowledge. To expose this was not for him to determine.
 
Problem is, the person handing out some sort of award is the one who allegedly issued the sanctions, Pope Benedict.

Why would that be?

Memory lapse?
Disobedience?
Sanctions were secret?
Faulty memories about timelines?
Doctored video?

Why would a gift be given out to someone under interdict and a life of penance and prayer, by the person placing the cardinal under interdict in the first place?

Yes there needs to be an investigation, because something does not add up.
 
kyrie03 said:
The fact that McCarrick was under sanctions was not public knowledge. To expose this was not for him to determine.
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The idea that a Cardinal Archbishop would be under strict censure but allowed to be publicly honored in order to keep the news of his “strict” censure secret is absolutely bizarre to me. Vigano is even on tape, praising McCarrick at the event! As the Pope’s representative!
 
kyrie03 said:
For the sake of transparency and getting to know the full story, would you be in favor of the investigative work of the 3 Cardinals be released?
Click to expand...
You mean the report that allegedly convinced Pope Benedict to step down? I don’t think I am the only person who would be interested in finding out the contents of that. That has got to be some serious stuff.
 
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