Pope Francis on Divorce and Remarriage

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Elizium23 said:
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Very interesting article.

The problem with trying to use the Orthodox position is that in the documents, divorce is allowed in the Orthodox Church **only after **a period of counseling with the priest where reconciliation is the goal. Only if that fails, is permission to divorce granted which may be followed by permission to remarry.

In virtually all of the cases in the Latin Church where people are looking for a “compassionate” Church response, no attempt was made to reconcile, let alone extensive counseling with a priest. In virtually all of the cases I have known personally or read on these and other venues, the person (whether he/she was the innocent party in the divorce or not) gets “remarried” first and then wants the Church to accept it after the fact.

The Orthodox position is not all that different from the Catholic Church’s annulment process in its result. A person who suffered through a marriage that was flawed is allowed to remarry. But neither position allows for a Christian to leave a marriage on his/her own initiative, get remarried without benefit of clergy and then be re-admitted to the Sacraments.
 
Elizium23 said:
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According to the article:
"In the Christian Empire under Constantine, Theodosius, Justinian and others, laws defined the various legal grounds and conditions on which divorce and remarriage were permissible. It is sufficient to say that they were relatively lenient. However, no Father of the Church ever denounced these imperial laws as contrary to Christianity. St. Epiphanius of Cyprus (d403) says, “He who cannot keep continence after the death of his first wife, or who has separated from his wife for a valid motive, as fornication, adultery, or another misdeed, if he takes another wife, or if the wife takes another husband, the divine word does not condemn him nor exclude him from the Church or the life; but she tolerates it rather on account of his weakness” (Against Heresies).

However, the Church always remained faithful to the New Testament ideal. Only the first and unique marriage was blessed in Church during the Eucharist. As seen above, second and third marriages, after widowhood, were concluded at a civil ceremony only, and implied a penance of one to five years of excommunication. After this period of penance, the couple was again considered as full members of the Church. A more prolonged penance was required for married divorcees (see canon 87 of Sixth Ecum. Council). The classification of the marrying divorcees among the adulterers—in strict conformity with the Gospel text—implied that they spent sufficient time standing in Church not among the faithful, but at the doorway, with the “weepers,” the “hearers” (i.e., those who listened to Scripture, but were not admitted to the sacraments), and the “prostrators” (i.e., those who held, during certain parts of the service, a prostrated position, instead of sitting or standing)."
 
Tomdstone said:
The present discipline of the Orthodox Church with regard to divorce and remarriage actually dates back to the Council of Constantinople held in 920 A.D. This council recognized, without canonical punishment, remarriage and divorce.
goarch.org/archdiocese/departments/marriage/interfaith/faq/divorce-fqa#subject-when-was-divorced
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I presume you are aware that the Roman Church does not recognize that particular Council as legitmate, and in fact, rejected it in favor of the Council of Constantinople in 869. The Orthodox, in turn, do not recognize that the 869 Council, and refer to it as the ‘Robber Council’ as it’s decrees disposed +Photius
 
According to my article, the discipline dates far earlier than those councils, and the council only served to codify what was already the status quo, and widen the burgeoning and regrettable schism that was already in progress.
 
The merciful thing to do would be to make annulments faster. Having to wait two and three years for one is not right. Especially for people whose case is clear as day. I had a friend whose case was clear and it still took three years. I am going through an annulment right now and it will last longer than my ‘marriage’ did. My case is clear since my ex lied to me and admitted that in writing and a whole lot of other things that are clear as day. Even the judge said I would get the annulment since he looked it all over. In cases like that, the process should be much faster for people. Having the process so slow and drawn out is the main problem in my opinion.

If any process should be longer, it should be the wedding prep time, not the annulment.
 
carajentzen said:
Amen… And I believe Pope Francis understands this. Prepare for more compassion coming from the Vatican and less inflexible hard line Pharisee-like dogma dictating bishops and diosees - after all 5% of the US is divorced, a much higher rate uses birth control. Are we checking everyone’s sin card at the door and not distributing communion to them? Or are we just picking on a few vulnerable people? How many people do you know in your parish that are divorced? I guarantee you MOST have not gotten annulments and yet are offered full sacraments and are not treated like trash like we who are trying to follow all the rules and do what’s right. We are branded with a scarlet letter, told we are grievous sinners and don’t deserve a new life orGod’s love. As a new Catholic convert, you people scare the hell out of me.
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I agree, its obvious that most catholics use contraception.This is something that could be changed…people cant be expected to abstain if you want to space your family.Also many people would not be able to support a large family.I am in the uk, and became a catholic in 2010 and when it came to this topic in rica the priest said you cant be expected to keep having children.
 
Burdock said:
I agree, its obvious that most catholics use contraception.This is something that could be changed…people cant be expected to abstain if you want to space your family.Also many people would not be able to support a large family.I am in the uk, and became a catholic in 2010 and when it came to this topic in rica the priest said you cant be expected to keep having children.
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Nope. The Church teaches against it. That’s it. Not gonna change. It is a grave evil. Just because a lot of catholics use it does not make it right and it doesn’t change the teaching either.
NFP can be used.
I suggest you do some reading on this topic.
 
Elizium23 said:
So many people, Catholics included, are infected with the notions of modern society that conjugal love is an inalienable human right, that sex without consequences is a pleasure which all of us deserve and that we cannot be burdened with love, marriage or children unless we exercise our personal right to choose. This is the path of Population Control and a Culture of Death. But the Church lives a Culture of Life.
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OTOH, some Catholics whose spouses leave them, like myself, are infected with the notion that they have a God-given right to children.
 
The Church also has affirmed that the illicitness of contraception is an infallible doctrine: “The Church has always taught the intrinsic evil of contraception, that is, of every marital act intentionally rendered unfruitful. This teaching is to be held as definitive and irreformable. Contraception is gravely opposed to marital chastity, it is contrary to the good of the transmission of life (the procreative.aspect of matrimony), and to the reciprocal self-giving of the spouses (the unitive.aspect of matrimony); it harms true love and denies the sovereign role of God in the transmission of human life” (Vademecum for Confessors 2:4, Feb. 12, 1997).
 
TheWarriorMonk said:
OTOH, some Catholics whose spouses leave them, like myself, are infected with the notion that they have a God-given right to children.
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My spouse has left me and I have no children. I sympathize. But, that still doesn’t give me the right to commit adultery. No one has the ‘right’ to commit adultery or fornication no matter what the motivation is.
 
Oren said:
The Church also has affirmed that the illicitness of contraception is an infallible doctrine: “The Church has always taught the intrinsic evil of contraception, that is, of every marital act intentionally rendered unfruitful. This teaching is to be held as definitive and irreformable. Contraception is gravely opposed to marital chastity, it is contrary to the good of the transmission of life (the procreative.aspect of matrimony), and to the reciprocal self-giving of the spouses (the unitive.aspect of matrimony); it harms true love and denies the sovereign role of God in the transmission of human life” (Vademecum for Confessors 2:4, Feb. 12, 1997).
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Im sorry but I cant think of contraception as evil.I know the bible says go forth and multiply, but this should not be used literally. I have read a lot about the subject.Also my husband does not share my faith.And at 50 we do not want anymore children.
 
Burdock said:
Im sorry but I cant think of contraception as evil.I know the bible says go forth and multiply, but this should not be used literally. I have read a lot about the subject.Also my husband does not share my faith.And at 50 we do not want anymore children.
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Well, that’s the church’s teaching on it, so if you are in dissent of it then you should reform your conscious on the subject.
 
Burdock said:
Well im sorry but that is not right.The church has to have more compassion.
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Have you ever thought that perhaps the condemnation of erroneous thinking is the most compassionate of all? It is, in itself, a work of mercy because we cannot live integrated lives if we believe in falsehood.
This is just going round in circles. I have my views , you have yours…….
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Im sorry but I cant think of contraception as evil.I know the bible says go forth and multiply, but this should not be used literally. I have read a lot about the subject.Also my husband does not share my faith.And at 50 we do not want anymore children.
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In order to allow for God’s greatest blessings, we must forget what society says and submit our will and our mind to God’s revelation as taught by the Church. Whatever you’ve been reading is opposed to His Kingdom values. Christians are “set apart” from the world and it is this type of opposing values to which we must make a choice. Your personal “truth” which does not agree with scripture, is moral relativism – a dangerous infection. Don’t be afraid, but assent to God in order that your entire life and marriage can be sanctified. It is the only way to true happiness.
 
Crickabelle said:
My friend, do not borrow worries. Should a devoted Cathlic find him or herself in this tragic situation, faith dictates patience. Let us not be hasty, or think that we could possibly know what our response might be with regard to every “whait if” that we can conjure up.

A number of years ago, I found myself separated from my husband, desperately wanting “overs” but in time I came to understand the beauty of the holy scripture and fully accepted that if we ended up divorced, I could not even think about dating without committing grave sin.

Presently, my husband and I are happy together and I cannot imagine my life without him.

The counsel to St. Paul is pertinent to everyone who finds himself in difficult situations, “My grace is sufficient for you.”

Hold fast in faith.

In Christ,
Kim
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Nice post and welcome to the forum!
 
Burdock said:
Im sorry but I cant think of contraception as evil.I know the bible says go forth and multiply, but this should not be used literally. I have read a lot about the subject.Also my husband does not share my faith.And at 50 we do not want anymore children.
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We don’t share your faith either.
 
Your comment is very uncharitable.I suppose you think I should leave the church then. You know as well as I do that the majority of catholics use birth control.If they all left the church would be empty.
 
Burdock said:
. You know as well as I do that the majority of catholics use birth control.If they all left the church would be empty.
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Moral truth is not a popularity contest, nor is it subject to a vote.

Christ Himself had to deal with the very same situation that you describe in John 6.

He articulated a teaching that many found difficult to accept. They exclaimed “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”” and left.

St. Peter’s attitude was "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”

Christ did not change the teaching, but instead looked for ways to help explain it.

And that is what Pope Francis is doing. Like Christ, he cannot, nor will not, change the teaching, but just help those who currently cannot accept it to more fully understand and embrace it as the path to Eternal Life.
 
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