Cosmian,
This information was gathered by the Postulator for the Cause of Canonization and was included in the report that was sent to the Holy Father. The committee’s job is to gather all evidence that the canidate has led a heroic life of Christian virtue. It reads everything that the candidate wrote: letters, diaries, spiritual journals, and any other documents that pertain to his life of faith. The committee also takes testimonies from eye-witnesses who knew the man. According to the committee, these flagealtions were reported by witnesses whose credibility is beyond reproach. Therefore, the committe accepts them a truth and includes them in their findings of heroic virtue.
Br. JR,This information was gathered by the Postulator for the Cause of Canonization and was included in the report that was sent to the Holy Father. The committee’s job is to gather all evidence that the canidate has led a heroic life of Christian virtue. It reads everything that the candidate wrote: letters, diaries, spiritual journals, and any other documents that pertain to his life of faith. The committee also takes testimonies from eye-witnesses who knew the man. According to the committee, these flagealtions were reported by witnesses whose credibility is beyond reproach. Therefore, the committe accepts them a truth and includes them in their findings of heroic virtue.
These reports did not come out after John Paul II was declared venerable. They came out during the process of investigation. But they coiuld not be made public until the process is over. Now that the investigation is over and the case is closed, the findings can be shared. Nothing new can be added to their findings at this point. Once the pope declares a person venerable, there is no further study on the person’s life. The next step is to study the alleged miracles. That’s where things are at now. They are studying a reported miracle of a nun cured of Parkinson’s through the intercession of John Paul II. If the miracle is proven true, then beatification follows. If there are two miracles proven true, canonization follows.
One thing that we have to keep in mind is that Pope Benedict waved the waiting period to begin the study of John Paul’s life. He can also wave the requirement for the miracles and beatify and canonize based on the report of a heroic virtuous life. In reality, that’s all you need for sanctity. The miracles are a supernatural confirmation. But such a confirmation is not needed, because canonization is an infallible decree made by a pope. The pope does not need miracles to exercise infallibility.
On another subject, the Church has never done away with the Discipline. The Discipline, as it is properly called, is still practiced by many people, esepcially in certain religious orders. The Church does not encourage it without the supervision of a spiritual director. The spiritual director need not be a priest. But it must be someone who is trained in the spiritual life. You always need an objective person who can guide you to ensure that you are not carried away. It is equally important to have someone guide you, because it can be a horrible practice in the hands of someone who has some psychological problems such as scrupulosity or a tendency to inflict self-injury. That is not the purpose of the Discipline.
The purpose of the Discipline is exactly what the word says, to discipline the mind and body, not to punish or do harm. Of course, we can all do harm to the body without meaning to do so. This can happen even through fasting and abstinence. There is a degree that is an overkill, for lack of a better term. An overkill is when the health of the person is compromised in an irresponsible manner. Irresponsible would be when a person has full knowledge that a penitential practice aggravates a health problem and proceeds. That is immoral.
That being said, there have been holy souls who have become sick as a result of penances. But they had no idea that the penances were the cause of their poor health. In those cases there is no culpability.
Finally, these penitential practices are often an aid to help the person feel closer to Christ crucified. The soul yearns to identify with the physical sufferings of Christ. This yearning comes from the soul’s love for Christ. In reality, this person is already very close to Christ. To paraphrase St. Augustine, to look for Christ is to have found him. An excellent example of this kind of love is the prayer of St. Francis of Assisi. “Lord grant that I may experience in my flesh the sufferings of the cross and that I may love you as you loved me from the cross.” This is what the early Christians called Agape love. The soul identifies with Christ to the point that it seeks to become physically united to him.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
Yes. The height of spiritual conformation to Christ is physical conformation. Very few people have acheived it. It is a gift of grace for which man can ask, but God only grants to certain souls. I noticed that you’re a Franciscan. You have a good example in our Holy Father Francis. In his sermons, Bonaventure tells us that Francis has become so much like Christ at the level of virtue that the only thing left was for a physical transformation. Thus in September 1224, after the Feast of the Exultation of the Holy Cross, Francis prays for the gift to experience the cross in his own body. The grace was granted to him several days later through the stigmata.
No the Church has never stopped the practice.
Br. JR,This information was gathered by the Postulator for the Cause of Canonization and was included in the report that was sent to the Holy Father. The committee’s job is to gather all evidence that the canidate has led a heroic life of Christian virtue. It reads everything that the candidate wrote: letters, diaries, spiritual journals, and any other documents that pertain to his life of faith. The committee also takes testimonies from eye-witnesses who knew the man. According to the committee, these flagealtions were reported by witnesses whose credibility is beyond reproach. Therefore, the committe accepts them a truth and includes them in their findings of heroic virtue.
These reports did not come out after John Paul II was declared venerable. They came out during the process of investigation. But they coiuld not be made public until the process is over. Now that the investigation is over and the case is closed, the findings can be shared. Nothing new can be added to their findings at this point. Once the pope declares a person venerable, there is no further study on the person’s life. The next step is to study the alleged miracles. That’s where things are at now. They are studying a reported miracle of a nun cured of Parkinson’s through the intercession of John Paul II. If the miracle is proven true, then beatification follows. If there are two miracles proven true, canonization follows.
One thing that we have to keep in mind is that Pope Benedict waved the waiting period to begin the study of John Paul’s life. He can also wave the requirement for the miracles and beatify and canonize based on the report of a heroic virtuous life. In reality, that’s all you need for sanctity. The miracles are a supernatural confirmation. But such a confirmation is not needed, because canonization is an infallible decree made by a pope. The pope does not need miracles to exercise infallibility.
On another subject, the Church has never done away with the Discipline. The Discipline, as it is properly called, is still practiced by many people, esepcially in certain religious orders. The Church does not encourage it without the supervision of a spiritual director. The spiritual director need not be a priest. But it must be someone who is trained in the spiritual life. You always need an objective person who can guide you to ensure that you are not carried away. It is equally important to have someone guide you, because it can be a horrible practice in the hands of someone who has some psychological problems such as scrupulosity or a tendency to inflict self-injury. That is not the purpose of the Discipline.
The purpose of the Discipline is exactly what the word says, to discipline the mind and body, not to punish or do harm. Of course, we can all do harm to the body without meaning to do so. This can happen even through fasting and abstinence. There is a degree that is an overkill, for lack of a better term. An overkill is when the health of the person is compromised in an irresponsible manner. Irresponsible would be when a person has full knowledge that a penitential practice aggravates a health problem and proceeds. That is immoral.
That being said, there have been holy souls who have become sick as a result of penances. But they had no idea that the penances were the cause of their poor health. In those cases there is no culpability.
Finally, these penitential practices are often an aid to help the person feel closer to Christ crucified. The soul yearns to identify with the physical sufferings of Christ. This yearning comes from the soul’s love for Christ. In reality, this person is already very close to Christ. To paraphrase St. Augustine, to look for Christ is to have found him. An excellent example of this kind of love is the prayer of St. Francis of Assisi. “Lord grant that I may experience in my flesh the sufferings of the cross and that I may love you as you loved me from the cross.” This is what the early Christians called Agape love. The soul identifies with Christ to the point that it seeks to become physically united to him.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
A victim soul is a person who has been given the grace of offering their natural suffering for the salvation of souls. For example, there are people who have terminal illnesses or who have other physical conditions that they bear for the salvation of others. It does not mean that the victim soul does not seek medical assistance or relief from pain and suffering. It’s an attitude. One accepts one’s condition as an opportunity for great love.
It’s not a matter of what we think God appreciates. It’s a matter of what has been revealed to us through Sacred Tradition. We don’t always understand the reasons behind God’s thinking. But we don’t have to understand. Reason must be enlightened by faith. Our faith tells us that these penitential practices were espoused and promoted by the early Christians as revealed to them by the Apostles.
Thanks!A victim soul is a person who has been given the grace of offering their natural suffering for the salvation of souls. For example, there are people who have terminal illnesses or who have other physical conditions that they bear for the salvation of others. It does not mean that the victim soul does not seek medical assistance or relief from pain and suffering. It’s an attitude. One accepts one’s condition as an opportunity for great love.
A good example of a victim soul was John Paul II. When he became so ill that he could barely function, he accepted his condition for the salvation of the Church. Another good example was St. Clare of Assisi. She spent almost 40 years in bed. She was very sick. But she offered up her sickness as part of her poverty. There is Pierre Giorgio Frassati who suffered quietly and with great joy.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
Thanks for that answer JR… Who here can judge someones method of becoming closer to Christ?It’s not a matter of what we think God appreciates. It’s a matter of what has been revealed to us through Sacred Tradition. We don’t always understand the reasons behind God’s thinking. But we don’t have to understand. Reason must be enlightened by faith. Our faith tells us that these penitential practices were espoused and promoted by the early Christians as revealed to them by the Apostles.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
Jesus’ fast was not an uncommon event. The Jews had this practice for thousands of years before Christ was born. In the OT we read about David doing penance fasting and wearing sack cloth and ashes. At the time, Jesus’ sojourn in the desert was not seen as anything extraordinary for an orthodox Jew.
You don’t have to be clergy. St. Catherine of Siena was not a religious. She was a Lay Dominican. St. Thomas More and St. Joan of Arc were Secular Franciscans. St. Francis of Assisi was a lay brother and the list goes on.How true… Penance during Lent for me is a must! But outside of that, if I felt a further need for penance, I would definitely need to talk with a priest about it…
Besides, since I’m not clergy -I’ll probably never be spiritually inclined to do such highly disciplined forms of penance. :coolinoff: At least I hope!