Pope suggests Trump: not Christian

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I think he also focuses too much on the negative things some Christians are doing. Not enough on the good things. I do think sinful ways need to be addressed and rooted out, but really, the Catholic Church does a great deal for the poor. Isn’t the Catholic Church the largest charity in the world? He needs to focus more on building up the Christian community, instead he seems to tear it apart.

He could have left the question as, “The Gospel teaches us to reach out to the poor.” (positive) rather than “a man who says that is not a Christian.” (negative). Who is he to judge the soul?
The Pope speaks with authority. If anyone has the right to pronounce on such matters it is Pope Francis. Learned, prayerful and humble, Francis is someone that the world has rightly come to trust. As much as we would listen to the Dalai Lama when it comes to Buddhist practice, we would listen to Pope Francis when it comes to Christian teachings. And though people may be more accustomed to hear popes talk about other issues, like matters of sexual morality, Pope Francis reminds us that abortion is not the only issue that matters to the Catholic church. Issues surrounding migration, human trafficking, and more broadly the poor, also matter to the Christian person.
Fr. James Martin
 
We are all living temporal lives, and it is normal for us to think on a micro level about our own lives, and of the lives of those we love. It is much harder to walk as Jesus walked, and to walk the Gospel as the Lord asks of us. Despite what some Christians think, living a Christian life IS NOT EASY, it take actual work and effort to walk as our Lord walked.

To make an attempt at balancing the natural concern for our micro lives with what should be our concern for others, is NOT easy. Many don’t bother.
 
This is what I tried to tell you. I was on the other side. My family was very poor and still is back in China. But I would not have come here illegally. God would have found a way for me to do well in China. If America says I couldn’t come here, I would have accepted it as God’s will and moved on.
Thankfully, you did not face that actual decision.

I think, though, that for most people who are faced with possible death through starvation or disease, if they know a much life is fairly close to them, they will take that chance.

We must not forget–we are blessed to be in the USA, but it is not actually our land. It all still belongs to God and all borders are arbitrary political constructs that have changed many times over the course of history.
 
A point few ever raise.

Where is our migrant problem with all the other nations in the world? Across which border are the Europeans, Russians, Ausies, Kiwis, Africans, Chinese, Japanese, etc., pouring over by the thousands?

Oh, wait, they are not pouring over our border–that distinction belongs to Mexico.

I do recall, in history, that many Europeans poured into our country in the late 1800s and early 1900s–many of those were poor and had nothing when they came here. We made no effort to build a wall in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean to stop them–we welcomed them with open arms. Does anyone doubt that those people would have still come here even if we did not welcome them? They were fleeing horrible conditions. Forward to today: we no longer receive Europeans as we did back then. Why is that? It is because the European nations now do a good job of caring for their own.

Like it or not, Mexico is our neighbor–building a wall will certainly slow down the crossings, and the USA has every right to protect the nation. However, this will not end until Mexico starts caring for its own in a way that stops its citizens from needing to come here, just as European nations recovered and took care of their own.

The solution is not a wall. The solution is to look at Mexico as our neighbor and to start doing everything we can to help them care for themselves, without need to flee to the USA. Only then, will this problem conclude, and that is the only way it will conclude well.

We spend trillions on wars and nation building, and we lose thousands of lives in doing the same–but we never do the same for our own neighbor.

Do you not understand? Mexicans should NOT want to flee here–they should have to be faced with no choice but to flee here to help care for their families. That must be fixed, and until it is, this problem will not go away no matter how many walls we build.

The Pope knows all this–he knows walls only lock people in and out, they do not solve any real problems. I believe he wants the most powerful and most blessed nation in the world to work hard to fix this the right way. We must help lift Mexico up so its people no longer need to come here–barring that, this will not end.

I have heard many people say they don’t like to when the Mexican act as if they don’t want to be American–well, hint: they don’t. They want to live in Mexico, but they cannot have a life there. They appreciate being able to find what they need here–but they long for their own land. That is not terribly hard to understand.

Put yourself on the other side of that wall–would you find a way to help your family, or would you just give up and die?

Put yourself on the wrong side of the Berlin wall and your spouse and kids managed to get to the other side where life is so much better–would you not do almost anything to join them?

Think of how proud so many people were of Ronald Reagan when he said, “Tear down this wall!” Yet, now, we find ourselves fighting to be able to put up our own wall. Sure, I know the circumstances are different, but there are many similarities.

There are better and more humane ways to treat people. That is what the Pope is trying to get us to realize.
And think how the amnesty granted during the Reagan administration was going to be the last amnesty that was to be granted.

As for the claim that the immigrants are mostly from Mexico:
Most People Caught Crossing Southwest Border Last Fiscal Year Weren’t From Mexico
huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/10/border-security_n_5966952.html
We have already granted amnesty once; unless there is a secured border, we will continue doing that every 20 years.
 
You are asking who is the Vicar of Christ to judge souls? Do I have that correct? Really?
Pope Francis himself said that of sinners seeking Christ.
The man who is Pastor over the entire Church on earth, and the man who holds the keys to the kingdom–he doesn’t have the authority to judge a soul?

Beyond that–the Pope did NOT judge Trump’s soul–but people do not care about truth anymore.
Only God can judge an individual’s soul. We can judge actions. Trump did not go to Confession to the Pope.
 
Thankfully, you did not face that actual decision.

I think, though, that for most people who are faced with possible death through starvation or disease, if they know a much life is fairly close to them, they will take that chance.

We must not forget–we are blessed to be in the USA, but it is not actually our land. It all still belongs to God and all borders are arbitrary political constructs that have changed many times over the course of history.
That’s why I often joke with my husband, America should simply purchase Mexico and we’ll work it all out together!
 
Better yet, he could have joined in support of the Pope’s mission to Mexico and offered to assist those there in rooting out corruption and making the country safe for all. Sure, it would have been dependent on having at least a few good leaders there willing to take assistance, but as you said, his character does not allow for agreement as a first choice. He is what my Okie relative would have called “contrary”.
Trump is running for election in the USA, not Mexico. It would be suicide for any US candidate to run on a platform of cleaning up corruption in another country.

Job - / - Flock
Pope / Everyone
POTUS / US Citizens
POM / Mexican Citizens

Much better that US Politicians focus on areas they can impact and are responsible for.
 
Thankfully, you did not face that actual decision.

I think, though, that for most people who are faced with possible death through starvation or disease, if they know a much life is fairly close to them, they will take that chance.

We must not forget–we are blessed to be in the USA, but it is not actually our land. It all still belongs to God and all borders are arbitrary political constructs that have changed many times over the course of history.
This is just open borders talk and it is not Catholic teaching, one can say that about any country in the world,

However, the Vatican tells us, countries have a right to it’s sovereignty so I will follow the Vatican.
 
Pope Francis himself said that of sinners seeking Christ.

Only God can judge an individual’s soul. We can judge actions. Trump did not go to Confession to the Pope.
sigh

Why must this “who am I to judge” topic keep being raised on a Catholic forum? The Pope was not saying he could not judge, he said “who am I to judge” when he sees a gay person of good will trying to live a Christian life. He was saying that if a person is striving toward following our Lord, he would not judge that person.

Every Priest, Bishop, and Pope, have the authority, and duty, to judge. They often will not forgive a sin for various reasons. As for judging souls, if the man who holds the keys to kingdom cannot judge a soul, then those keys don’t mean much.
 
The Pope speaks with authority. If anyone has the right to pronounce on such matters it is Pope Francis. Learned, prayerful and humble, Francis is someone that the world has rightly come to trust. As much as we would listen to the Dalai Lama when it comes to Buddhist practice, we would listen to Pope Francis when it comes to Christian teachings. And though people may be more accustomed to hear popes talk about other issues, like matters of sexual morality, Pope Francis reminds us that abortion is not the only issue that matters to the Catholic church. Issues surrounding migration, human trafficking, and more broadly the poor, also matter to the Christian person.
Fr. James Martin
I never said the Pope didn’t have the authority. I gave my opinion on his style. I stick by my comment that no human has the authority to judge a person’s soul. Not even Hitler’s. The Church does not pronounce that people are in Hell.
 
This is what I tried to tell you. I was on the other side. My family was very poor and still is back in China. But I would not have come here illegally. God would have found a way for me to do well in China. If America says I couldn’t come here, I would have accepted it as God’s will and moved on.
May I ask if you are uneducated…illiterate…unable to speak English…penniless…as most of those coming from south of the border are…then how did you manage to get into the US…
 
This is just open borders talk and it is not Catholic teaching, one can say that about any country in the world,

However, the Vatican tells us, countries have a right to it’s sovereignty so I will follow the Vatican.
I know Catholic teaching well, and I never said the Vatican taught this. These are my opinions. Truth is, the wall is a failure – it is a sign we don’t want to do the hard work to find a solution. We are brewing a terrible future with all this. We make the Mexicans out to be some evil people, and they certainly feel that is our message–and I fear one day that will come back on us.

I believe every country has a right to protect itself and its borders. I am simply saying that the wall is a huge failure.
 
sigh

Why must this “who am I to judge” topic keep being raised on a Catholic forum? The Pope was not saying he could not judge, he said “who am I to judge” when he sees a gay person of good will trying to live a Christian life. He was saying that if a person is striving toward following our Lord, he would not judge that person.

Every Priest, Bishop, and Pope, have the authority, and duty, to judge. They often will not forgive a sin for various reasons. As for judging souls, if the man who holds the keys to kingdom cannot judge a soul, then those keys don’t mean much.
In your opinion, this article from Catholic Answers acknowledges not all of the Vicars of Christ have been perfect, it is not Catholic teaching that they are perfect. I am unsure of the exact theology but I would think they also share in the fallen nature of man as well.
Papal Infallibility
Some ask how popes can be infallible if some of them lived scandalously.
NIHIL OBSTAT: I have concluded that the materials
presented in this work are free of doctrinal or moral errors.
Bernadeane Carr, STL, Censor Librorum, August 10, 2004
IMPRIMATUR: In accord with 1983 CIC 827
permission to publish this work is hereby granted.
+Robert H. Brom, Bishop of San Diego, August 10, 2004
catholic.com/tracts/papal-infallibility
 
I know Catholic teaching well, and I never said the Vatican taught this. These are my opinions. Truth is, the wall is a failure – it is a sign we don’t want to do the hard work to find a solution. We are brewing a terrible future with all this. We make the Mexicans out to be some evil people, and they certainly feel that is our message–and I fear one day that will come back on us.

I believe every country has a right to protect itself and its borders. I am simply saying that the wall is a huge failure.
Okay, stats show it has been successful in San Diego.
 
I never said the Pope didn’t have the authority. I gave my opinion on his style. I stick by my comment that no human has the authority to judge a person’s soul. Not even Hitler’s. The Church does not pronounce that people are in Hell.
I agree, and the Pope cannot determine who is in Heaven, or who is or will go to hell, other than when Sainthood is pronounced. Yet, the Pope most certainly can judge the state of one’s soul based on information about that person’s sins and life.

In fact, the Pope did so yesterday. He stated it clearly–if a person thinks only of building walls, but he does not think of building bridges, that person is not behaving as a Christian. That is a judgment.
 
May I ask if you are uneducated…illiterate…unable to speak English…penniless…as most of those coming from south of the border are…then how did you manage to get into the US…
That seems a bit personal to ask someone.

I will say this though, reports are that illegal immigrants often pay thousands of dollars to make this journey. Organized crime is involved in people smuggling.
 
Okay, stats show it has been successful in San Diego.
I know–we an slow it down, but it will never stop so long as the problems persist in Mexico. We are, in truth, turning away from the source of the problem, and turning toward just locking the door.

I am not sure how a Catholic sense of compassion has managed to co thoroughly disappear in this country.
 
I, too, think a lot of Catholics find him off-putting.

But I don’t know that it’s because he talks about the poor all the time. The Church has always had that, and it needs to be said over and over again.

Where it gets problematic, particularly for some, is when his statements seem to be endorsements of political points of view of a secular nature. One of the real difficulties in understanding this Pope is that media headlnes and articles selectively quote him in order to make it appear he supports some political approach or other, when he does not. I don’t think the liberal media, which is largely oppositional to the Church intends to help out the evangelicals by misquoting or misconstruing the Pope, but they clearly do.
This isn’t the first time this has happened. I’m 99% sure someone has approached the Pope about the issues/confusion arising from his “Papal Plane Press Conferences.” He insists on still doing them, and that’s his style. However, when you chime into a political topic that is at the forefront of an American election, you HAVE to know you are going to be spun by both sides to advance their position. It is 100% expected nowadays with today’s media and politics, which is why he should have treaded more carefully. If he really wanted to chime in, release a long researched document, rather than a short answer to a random reporter.
 
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