Pope suggests Trump: not Christian

[irishpatrick]

I disagree, and hope that America NEVER becomes a place where one’s faith is questioned, especially in politics. To me, faith is a private and personal thing, and no one can claim to know another person’s heart and soul. Yes, one can question another’s political motivations, ideological beliefs, and social values as demonstrated by their political actions; but NOT, either explicitly or implicitly, their private faith, unless perhaps if they make their faith a part of the political campaign and agenda.

In the past we always asked the questions–today we are afraid. That is not a good development. When a person enters the fray to win a national office, they have in large measure given up their right to privacy regarding what they believe or what they have done. We the people have a right to know what they believe so we can make informed choices.

 

[tomarin]

The Holy Father like everyone else picks and chooses the things on which he should not be judging. Homosexuals seem to not get this judging option, but Donald Trump does. I’m sorry, but I a very disappointed with this Pope - he seems to be nothing more than an out and out leftist.

I could well imagine Benedict saying the same thing, although in more measured tones perhaps.

 

[HCTC]

How else does one keep drugs out, drugs like heroin and so on.

I think I will write to the Vatican that members of his flock need to not support and enable inherent evils such as abortion through political candidates.

With the Catholic voting bloc; perhaps that should be addressed as well.

I don’t know if you have been following the Holy Father’s comments during his trip to Mexico. He has been calling the Mexican government into account regarding drugs, violence, corruption, poverty, and lack of opportunity - specifically saying that Mexco should not make it necessary for Mexicans to leave Mexico in order to realize their dreams.

His answer to this question that is causing such a firestorm is actually very low-key by comparison to what he has been saying to Mexico. I have been saying extra prayers for his safety.

 

[Catholic_Nation]

I’m glad our Pope has said this. Catholics must choose whom they will follow. Christ’s Vicar on earth? Or a demagogue preaching fascism? You cannot serve God and mammon.

Spot on. I find it difficult to see how anyone can support a man like Trump, the Pope has stood up and spoken what many people are thinking. Trump is mean spirited and just downright rude.

 

[Son_of_Niall]

Viva il Papa!
I am proud of this Pope and proud to be Catholic.

 

[Adonia]

The Holy Father spoke about those who only think about building walls, and not bridges…read the quote, please. it was not even directed to Trump in name. The Pope made a broad statement that covered anyone who is obsessed with building walls, while not bothering to build bridges.

Oh I see, once more this Pope is misunderstood? That seems to be happening quite a bit with him. I do not care for Mr. Trump, but he did also say that he was all for people coming here - legally that is. We can do both - build a wall where we can finally have some control over our borders and revamp the immigration system to allow for a controlled entry of people.

 

[jimthejanitor]

Didn’t the Pope say something to the effect that he could not judge if a gay person is saved? How can he judge if someone is Christian. Isn’t a practicing gay person not only against Catholic teaching, against the Bible and the bible seems to indicate that a practicing gay person would not go to heaven.

My point being, a practicing gay person appears to be in direct violation of Christianity, but the Pope could not judge? But he can indicate that Trump is not Christian because he wan’t to build a wall?

 

[Adonia]

Viva il Papa!
I am proud of this Pope and proud to be Catholic.

I miss Pope Benedict.

 

[Path_Finder]

I don’t know if you have been following the Holy Father’s comments during his trip to Mexico. He has been calling the Mexican government into account regarding drugs, violence, corruption, poverty, and lack of opportunity - specifically saying that Mexco should not make it necessary for Mexicans to leave Mexico in order to realize their dreams.

His answer to this question that is causing such a firestorm is actually very low-key by comparison to what he has been saying to Mexico. I have been saying extra prayers for his safety.

Yes, I’m all up on what he said.

 

[Good_Tidings]

Viva il Papa!
I am proud of this Pope and proud to be Catholic.

Me, too.

 

[irishpatrick]

The Pope, as Vicar of Christ, should not be left or right–many in the USA forget that.

Jesus frustrated and angered many different peoples–mainly because he spoke the truth.

The Pope is correct. It is a massive human failure to build walls despite the sometimes requirement for the same. The Berlin Wall was a sign of human failure. The fences and walls in Israel today are signs of human failures. What it means is we have no ability to find a more humane compromise, so instead we’ll just lock everyone out. Well, Jesus, imo, would have us tear down all walls and find a way, no matter how difficult.

We are standing at the precipice of a future in which all nations will be walled off from each other. In that future world trade and travel will be much lower because no one will trust each other–massive human failures. In addition, in that future, the Gospel will be all the harder to spread across the world, so we will have the added pain of knowing millions of souls will never known Christ.

If the USA, the political (not moral) leader of the world, decides to walls itself off, why shouldn’t everyone else follow our example.

No matter how frustrating illegal immigration is–we must never forget those people bear the likeness and image of God, just as we do.

Catholics in large numbers claim to be prolife–but that label does not apply only to the unborn, it also means we must care about people who are starving and dying utterly unjust deaths.

 

[Path_Finder]

The Pope, as Vicar of Christ, should not be left or right–many in the USA forget that.

Jesus frustrated and angered many different peoples–mainly because he spoke the truth.

The Pope is correct. It is a massive human failure to build walls despite the sometimes requirement for the same. The Berlin Wall was a sign of human failure. The fences and walls in Israel today are signs of human failures. What it means is we have no ability to find a more humane compromise, so instead we’ll just lock every out. Well, Jesus, imo, would have us tear down all walls and find a way, no matter how difficult.

We are standing at the precipice of a future in which all nations will be walled off from each other. In that future world trade and travel will be much lower because no one will trust each other–massive human failures. In addition, in that future, the Gospel will be all the harder to spread across the world, so we will have the added pain of know millions of souls will never known Christ.

If the USA, the political (not moral) leader of the world, decides to walls itself off, why shouldn’t everyone else follow our example.

No matter how frustrating illegal immigration is–we must never forget those people bear the likeness and image of God, just as we do.

The walls in Israel have helped keep out bombers and protected the population. I can look for data to support this, I think it is fairly well known.

 

[Path_Finder]

I miss Pope Benedict.

I guess He was asked a question, I hope someone, a journalists asks what the Pope thinks of politicians, perhaps by name, that support abortion because as stated in the other thread, the Holy Father calls it murder. I would hope there is genuine reflection on this issue, not just being similar to a fair weather friend in that the Holy Father might say something we agree with.

Of course, to me, it is obvious, the Pope called abortion murder. Those politicians supporting such rights, do support this.

 

[DaveBj]

Has he called himself lord? Does he pray to himself? Does he demand you bow down to him and worship him?

No, but then those are the characteristics of a deity, not a lord. What I meant was that the only opinions that Trump appears to consider are his own.

 

[zerocrossing]

What does that even mean? What does it mean to not “other” people?

To “other” means to treat fellow human beings as fundamentally “other.” In the context of the Pope’s remarks, it means to focus only on building walls and not even attempting to build bridges - i.e., not even attempting to acknowledge the common humanity of the person beyond the wall. “Othering” treats people beyond the wall as subhuman. The Vatican wall does not do this. It does not “other” the people beyond the wall.

Please note, I said nothing in my comment about Trump. I was trying to interpret what the Pope said, in light of a snarky comment upthread about the Vatican having a wall.

 

[bekalc]

The Pope, as Vicar of Christ, should not be left or right–many in the USA forget that.

Jesus frustrated and angered many different peoples–mainly because he spoke the truth.

The Pope is correct. It is a massive human failure to build walls despite the sometimes requirement for the same. The Berlin Wall was a sign of human failure. The fences and walls in Israel today are signs of human failures. What it means is we have no ability to find a more humane compromise, so instead we’ll just lock every out. Well, Jesus, imo, would have us tear down all walls and find a way, no matter how difficult.

We are standing at the precipice of a future in which all nations will be walled off from each other. In that future world trade and travel will be much lower because no one will trust each other–massive human failures. In addition, in that future, the Gospel will be all the harder to spread across the world, so we will have the added pain of know millions of souls will never known Christ.

If the USA, the political (not moral) leader of the world, decides to walls itself off, why shouldn’t everyone else follow our example.

No matter how frustrating illegal immigration is–we must never forget those people bear the likeness and image of God, just as we do.

The issue is not just illegal immigration. It is also the drug trade and human trafficking. But once again the Vatican has Walls and border controls too. Should they take down their walls so anyone can come in at any time.

I find the idea of a wall terrible too but it is horribly sad but it does not make it wrong. But you can still have doors and locks and let people in.

Now I also am horrified by the language use about the immigrants and lack of mercy. But by putting the focus on the Wall the Pope has drawn away from that. Now many Americans are taking this as we are wrong to have any border controls.

 

[irishpatrick]

The walls in Israel have helped keep out bombers and protected the population. I can look for data to support this, I think it is fairly well known.

Yes, it is well known, and that is why I mentioned the sometimes requirement for the same. My point is that the walls in Israel are a sign of human failure. If not, then the walls would not be needed.

My fear/concern is that we seem to see more-and-more of this–human failures. One day we will all be walled off from each other.

 

[Catholic_Nation]

The walls in Israel have helped keep out bombers and protected the population. I can look for data to support this, I think it is fairly well known.

Maybe if Israel gave the Palestinians back their territory and stopped bombing their cities maybe they wouldn’t need walls

 

[irishpatrick]

The issue is not just illegal immigration. It is also the drug trade and human trafficking. But once again the Vatican has Walls and border controls too. Should they take down their walls so anyone can come in at any time.

I find the idea of a wall terrible too but it is horribly sad but it does not make it wrong. But you can still have doors and locks and let people in.

Doors and locks are signs of human failure too. It should not be this way. I know all to well about our fallen nature, etc…yet, today, we seem to just be giving up, rather then struggling to find a way.

 

[Path_Finder]

To “other” means to treat fellow human beings as fundamentally “other.” In the context of the Pope’s remarks, it means to focus only on building walls and not even attempting to build bridges - i.e., not even attempting to acknowledge the common humanity of the person beyond the wall. “Othering” treats people beyond the wall as subhuman. The Vatican wall does not do this. It does not “other” the people beyond the wall.

Please note, I said nothing in my comment about Trump. I was trying to interpret what the Pope said, in light of a snarky comment upthread about the Vatican having a wall.

If my comment was the one called snarky, this is a discussion forum after all and I vehemently resent such a characterization. This sounds like trying to shut down the conversation.

I doubt if the Church in Rome would have started sponsoring families to set an example in the refugee crisis if some had not said the same kind of thing, “are you doing it yourself”.

In the end, too, I think we can see this as people caring about their flocks. Just by coincidence, those coming from Latin America are probably largely Catholics. Mr. Trump cares to take care of America, in a sense, a flock as well. We have many problems ourselves in this regard and as far as the poor here.