Pope suggests Trump: not Christian

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ringil said:
Typical Breitbart

What an ugly publication
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What is untrue here?

If we are so concerned about foreigners, why can’t we be concerned with those who live here?

Attacking the messenger, not the message!
 
irishpatrick said:
Never used the word infallible, and never would with this issue.

You, and many others, are failing to see what I think is obvious. The Pope does not like the idea of a wall–neither do I, and I hope you don’t either. However, the Pope never said not to build a wall. He simply said that if a person ONLY thinks of building walls, and does not also think of building bridges, that is not Christian behavior.

As for the faith and morals part–if this was a wall that had no impact on human lives, I am certain the Pope would not say a word. However, there is an authentic humanitarian crisis going on at the border–people are dying, and some are suffering and starving. Most are just trying to get away from what is a horrible situation–a situation in which we have no understanding. The Pope knows we have the resources to help alleviate some of that incredible suffering, and now all he hears is our politicians want to build a wall to lock out those suffering people. He certainly knows we (USA) have a right to our borders and to our own soveirnty–but he also knows that great suffering is happening. So, he is saying that if we only want to shut out the suffering, without trying to help alleviate that suffering, we are not acting as Christians. It is pure Gospel and it is 100% faith and morals.

Try to image if Jesus came down and temporarily took the Pope’s place for a day. Can you imagine the Lord saying less than what the Pope said? Can you imagine the Lord saying, “Not my business because the all important USA is having an election?” Can you imagine the Lord saying, “Hey, USA, its fine to ignore all this suffering.”

Well, the Pope is Jesus’ Vicar–try to actually let that sink in. There is not one human being on earth that has more authority to speak about faith and orals, than does the Pope. Not even one. he was not speaking infallibly, yet he was speaking as the Vicar of Christ about a matter of faith and morals.

I hope you have a blessed night. 🙂
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I understand you have never used the word infallible, but you have said the Pope is 100% correct and Trump is 100% wrong. That to me suggests you are saying unless we side with the Pope and criticize the wall, we are 100% wrong. What I’m saying is building of the wall has no relationship with the degree of compassion in people’s hearts. We can build a wall and still help people.
 
irishpatrick said:
Never used the word infallible, and never would with this issue.

You, and many others, are failing to see what I think is obvious. The Pope does not like the idea of a wall–neither do I, and I hope you don’t either. However, the Pope never said not to build a wall. He simply said that if a person ONLY thinks of building walls, and does not also think of building bridges, that is not Christian behavior.

As for the faith and morals part–if this was a wall that had no impact on human lives, I am certain the Pope would not say a word. However, there is an authentic humanitarian crisis going on at the border–people are dying, and some are suffering and starving. Most are just trying to get away from what is a horrible situation–a situation in which we have no understanding. The Pope knows we have the resources to help alleviate some of that incredible suffering, and now all he hears is our politicians want to build a wall to lock out those suffering people. He certainly knows we (USA) have a right to our borders and to our own soveirnty–but he also knows that great suffering is happening. So, he is saying that if we only want to shut out the suffering, without trying to help alleviate that suffering, we are not acting as Christians. It is pure Gospel and it is 100% faith and morals.

Try to image if Jesus came down and temporarily took the Pope’s place for a day. Can you imagine the Lord saying less than what the Pope said? Can you imagine the Lord saying, “Not my business because the all important USA is having an election?” Can you imagine the Lord saying, “Hey, USA, its fine to ignore all this suffering.”

Well, the Pope is Jesus’ Vicar–try to actually let that sink in. There is not one human being on earth that has more authority to speak about faith and orals, than does the Pope. Not even one. he was not speaking infallibly, yet he was speaking as the Vicar of Christ about a matter of faith and morals.

I hope you have a blessed night. 🙂
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But he’s not an expert in immigration, what? Does one go to him with an accounting problem? And Cuba; Marco Rubio is not the Vicar of Christ but it’s obvious that this deal between the US and Cuba is a bad deal for the poor.
 
Path_Finder said:
This is quite a claim and I think it should be backed up, I’ve listened to Hannity a lot.

Has he said Priests should be able to get married, maybe, I don’t see that as an attack on the church.

I’m a bit wary of people being spoken of negatively, Hannity I believe went to a Seminary and is still a Practicing Catholic.
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It seems that anyone who went to a Catholic prep high school now claims to have gone to the seminary. Not necessarily true, especially for someone Hannity’s age.
 
Path_Finder said:
I disagree with this, I have not seen a hit piece by Hannity against the Pope.

My the things we read here,

Trump is perverting the words of the Pope, unsubstantiated,

Hannity attacks the Church a lot, LOL! Not worth one’s time to prove. Unsubstantiated.

Hannity set up a hit piece on the Pope, unsubstantiated again.

To me, this really smacks of behavior that may not be telling the truth and bearing false witness, if our intention is to be Christian.

A hit piece, yes, this language seems to squelch any debate or disagreement. I think that is unfair.
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No, it is a lazy response from someone who has been responding for hours in an attempt to convince people that what the Pope said was not only correct, but that it is 100% the Gospel. It saddens me to my soul that so many Catholics will side with a businessman against the Pope regarding an issue of faith and morals. Against the Pope–I cannot even stand writing that phrase, but it’s true. The Pope is the one person on earth who has the most Divinely given authority to speak about faith and morals, and Catholics are siding against him. In my genuine heartbreak, I have tried with all my heart to convince people to back away from such a harsh stance–mostly to no avail. Oh well–I have tried my very best. 🙂

In truth, I am tired and weary and got lazy. I retract my previous post and I will talk to you soon.

Have a blessed night. 🙂
 
"Hey, USA, its fine to ignore all this suffering."
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Excuse me, what country let’s in 1,000,000 persons a year?

Growing up where I did, I think this is all more about the Raza and I find the compassion to be very questionable.
 
Good_Tidings said:
It’s amazing that some people can’t see the irony in the situation, but that takes higher cognitive skills.
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This reads like another insult to voters who support Trump. Thank you very much. I do admit I’m quite stupid sometimes.
 
irishpatrick said:
No, it is a lazy response from someone who has been responding for hours in an attempt to convince people that what the Pope said was not only correct, but that it is 100% the Gospel. It saddens me to my soul that so many Catholics will side with a businessman against the Pope regarding an issue of faith and morals. Against the Pope–I cannot even stand writing that phrase, but it’s true. The Pope is the one person on earth who has the most Divinely given authority to speak about faith and morals, and Catholics are siding against him. In my genuine heartbreak, I have tried with all my heart to convince people to back away from such a harsh stance–mostly to no avail. Oh well–I have tried my very best. 🙂

In truth, I am tired and weary and got lazy. I retract my previous post and I will talk to you soon.

Have a blessed night. 🙂
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Thank you for your sincere contributions to this thread.
 
irishpatrick said:
No, it is a lazy response from someone who has been responding for hours in an attempt to convince people that what the Pope said was not only correct, but that it is 100% the Gospel. It saddens me to my soul that so many Catholics will side with a businessman against the Pope regarding an issue of faith and morals. Against the Pope–I cannot even stand writing that phrase, but it’s true. The Pope is the one person on earth who has the most Divinely given authority to speak about faith and morals, and Catholics are siding against him. In my genuine heartbreak, I have tried with all my heart to convince people to back away from such a harsh stance–mostly to no avail. Oh well–I have tried my very best. 🙂

In truth, I am tired and weary and got lazy. I retract my previous post and I will talk to you soon.

Have a blessed night. 🙂
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There is Catholic Teaching, the Magisterium. This is the ultimate authority. I believe it addresses immigration.
 
Well, JebBush takes a digg at the Pope

“Bush: I’m informed by my faith, but I don’t question people’s Christianity. I don’t question Donald Trump’s faith.”

from CNN Townhall.
 
queenofheartscv said:
Let’s focus on the specifics here. Another poster said, the crux of the matter is the wall, which Pope Francis objects to. Certainly discussions can be had here. But how does the wall pivot to faith and morals? How can we judge the compassion of a US leader or lack thereof by the fact that he wants to build a wall?

You are trying to make the Pope’s dislike of the wall into an infallible statement pertaining to faith and morals, thereby crushing any catholics who want to support Trump. I don’t see how you can do that.
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You are the only one bringing up infallibility.
 
Good_Tidings said:
You are the only one bringing up infallibility.
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I’m sorry, but I’m playing word association game here. When I hear the words “faith and morals,” I think infallible. I’ve learned to associate those words together somewhere in the Catholic faith.
 
Son_of_Niall said:
I’m glad our Pope has said this. Catholics must choose whom they will follow. Christ’s Vicar on earth? Or a demagogue preaching fascism? You cannot serve God and mammon.
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Agreed my fellow Catholic. This has now gotten even bigger for me, now that the Pope has officially weighed in on the wall, migrants, Muslims. Pope Francis recently talked about Trump ad the Gospel…so when the Pope preaches about how Trumps views, not Trump the Person…go against the Gospel it is something that I will remember. I call myself a Catholic not only because I was baptized in a Catholic Church…but also because I follow the teachings of the Church and Pope Francis is as has been said by other Catholics, the head of our Church.
 
Path_Finder said:
I disagree with this, I have not seen a hit piece by Hannity against the Pope.

My the things we read here,

Trump is perverting the words of the Pope, unsubstantiated,

Hannity attacks the Church a lot, LOL! Not worth one’s time to prove. Unsubstantiated.

Hannity set up a hit piece on the Pope, unsubstantiated again.

To me, this really smacks of behavior that may not be telling the truth and bearing false witness, if our intention is to be Christian.

A hit piece, yes, this language seems to squelch any debate or disagreement. I think that is unfair.
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Perhaps Irishpatrick reads more than the Drudge Report and Breitnbart.
 
_Abyssinia said:
Donald Trump said at the end of this clip on the CNN town hall in regards to the Pope’s comments, “I think it was probably a little bit nicer statement than it was reported by you folks in the media.” - twitter.com/cnn/status/700520459478167552

Trump also said in part in this clip, “I think he said something much softer than was originally reported by the media” - twitter.com/cnn/status/700521083238281216
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If Trump had been smart, he would have tried to find out what the Pope actually said without relying on the first media account before he fired back with his own “disgraceful” comment.
 
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