Pope suggests Trump: not Christian

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queenofheartscv said:
You are doing the same thing here. When you say something like that, my natural response is, who are you talking about that only wants to build walls? There has to be someone you have in mind for you to talk like that. Who in their right mind only builds walls? That statement presumes that someone actually ONLY wants to build walls, which is impossible for anyone to know. How do you know somebody’s heart that well?

If it’s only a theoretical statement and it doesn’t refer to anyone, then I find it highly unnecessary.

It’s like saying, if you only build walls and don’t love anybody, then you are not a very good person. I find this statement odd.
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I don’t know if it is even true that there is nothing admirable in building walls.

The Great Wall of China for example is one of the most amazing and admirable architectural achievement of all time, the only man-made structure that can be seen from space. Hadrian’s wall defined the limits of where the greatest empire of all time could reasonably achieve. The Israeli wall effectively limited the goals of the last intifada against them.

Walls between neighbors are good things. They physically establish boundaries which enable peace and mitigate against any conflicts of confusion where mine ends, and yours begins.
Americans as a whole want the wall. They want to be a nation of laws still, and not men, neither the power elites of left and right who exploit the lack of enforceable boundaries to keep labor cheap and to build up an underclass of future voters invested into a welfare class.

Walls almost inevitably have gates. That is in the nature of walls too. Unlike wide open spaces of undefined imaginary lines however, gates control the flow to mutually agreed upon manageable levels that serve the needs of everybody, and not just the coyotes and the drug runners and the cronies of government elites.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Probably somewhere there is a fairly enlightened history of Argentina written in English. Probably a fair number of them. What is difficult for me to understand is how Argentina went from being a very prosperous country…on European scale, and then went into the hopper and has stayed there for decade after decade.

One understands about Peron, and one understands about the post-Peron chaos which seems never to quite end. But Peronism had its roots in some kind of widespread discontent. So Argentina was already on the skids somehow when Peron took power.

Growing up in such a place might give a person an odd tilt to his thinking. Whether it has to Pope Francis or not, I don’t know.

One thing we do know, or can believe, is that his parents emigrated to Argentina from Italy, thinking they would have more opportunity in the former than in the latter. Why Argentina, one wonders? What was the draw? Did they come to regret it?
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About half of the population of Argentina is of Italian origin.
 
Darryl1958 said:
I don’t know if it is even true that there is nothing admirable in building walls.

The Great Wall of China for example is one of the most amazing and admirable architectural achievement of all time, the only man-made structure that can be seen from space. Hadrian’s wall defined the limits of where the greatest empire of all time could reasonably achieve. The Israeli wall effectively limited the goals of the last intifada against them.

Walls between neighbors are good things. They physically establish boundaries which enable peace and mitigate against any conflicts of confusion where mine ends, and yours begins.
Americans as a whole want the wall. They want to be a nation of laws still, and not men, neither the power elites of left and right who exploit the lack of enforceable boundaries to keep labor cheap and to build up an underclass of future voters invested into a welfare class.

Walls almost inevitably have gates. That is in the nature of walls too. Unlike wide open spaces of undefined imaginary lines however, gates control the flow to mutually agreed upon manageable levels that serve the needs of everybody, and not just the coyotes and the drug runners and the cronies of government elites.
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Since you mentioned the Great Wall of China, I’ll say that to the Chinese people it definitely was built by blood and terror. It was built by countless hours of slave labor with many families torn apart and cruelly treated.
 
Bob Dole was interviewed on Fox News this afternoon and said the Pope should not have commented on American politics but “on the other hand, the Pope is right.”
 
queenofheartscv said:
That’s going a little too far. Trump didn’t send someone to pose the question to the Pope. He’s cunning but doesn’t have that much control over things.
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My opinion is that Trump was fully aware of all the players, and how they would ask all the usual questions and play their same roles just as they always do. This includes the pope speaking off the cuff and exposing himself to loaded questions, just like he invariably does too.
There is nothing here that happened that would have been unpredictable and outside of the most probable scenario of how things would play out right from the instance that Trump chose to drag the pope’s visit to Mexico into his game of intrigue.

That is my opinion, and there is no facts present that contradict that opinion. In fact, I would have been surprised if this had not turned into the hot-button issue here that it has.
 
queenofheartscv said:
Since you mentioned the Great Wall of China, I’ll say that to the Chinese people it definitely was built by blood and terror. It was built by countless hours of slave labor with many families torn apart and cruelly treated.
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It should be no surprise to anyone that the Imperial Chinese did not act according to the dictates of Christian humanism thousands of years before Christian humanism began to influence our understandings of human nature and our divine purpose in this world.

Cruelty is the norm in human history. Christ died to expose the injustice of the rulers of this world in fact, and to show us all that the least among us is the greatest in heaven.

That does not make the achievements of Imperial China and Rome any less admirable. Striving for order in this world is still very much an admirable thing, and an impressive accomplishment.

My criticism of Trump certainly is not that he is a bad person because of his support for the wall.
 
on_the_hill said:
Bob Dole was interviewed on Fox News this afternoon and said the Pope should not have commented on American politics but “on the other hand, the Pope is right.”
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It is a long time since everybody has been taking a ride on the ‘Dole Train’.🙂
 
on_the_hill said:
Bob Dole was interviewed on Fox News this afternoon and said the Pope should not have commented on American politics but “on the other hand, the Pope is right.”
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Bob Dole: the Jimmy Carter of the Republican party. Well, except for the winning the presidency part, obviously.
 
Tomdstone said:
If so, why maintain the Vatican city wall and not tear it down? Why do some of the local Roman Catholic schools have fences around them?
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He didn’t build the walls around the Vatican–they were built more than 1,000 years ago, and they are often considered part of the architecture. Besides, I don’t know any other place on earth of such a small size that is so regularly swamped by people – something like 25,000 people every day. That is not exactly a sign of using a wall to keep people out!
 
irishpatrick said:
He didn’t build the walls around the Vatican–they were built more than 1,000 years ago, and they are often considered part of the architecture. Besides, I don’t know any other place on earth of such a small size that is so regularly swamped by people – something like 25,000 people every day. That is not exactly a sign of using a wall to keep people out!
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Pope St. Leo IV, the Vicar of Christ on earth built those walls.

I would surmise, built to keep invaders out.
I saw something earlier, I forget where that the walls came down around 1870 and then, they were built back up in the 1920s, the walls are huge and lengthy so perhaps someone knows about this. I forget where I heard it but surely, they did not bring down all of the walls in 1870.
 
Path_Finder said:
Pope St. Leo IV, the Vicar of Christ on earth built those walls.

I would surmise, built to keep invaders out.
I saw something earlier, I forget where that the walls came down around 1870 and then, they were built back up in the 1920s, the walls are huge and lengthy so perhaps someone knows about this. I forget where I heard it but surely, they did not bring down all of the walls in 1870.
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I am not an expert regarding the Vatican walls. I do know the Vatican lets millions access its grounds every year.
 
irishpatrick said:
I am not an expert regarding the Vatican walls. I do know the Vatican lets millions access its grounds every year.
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Do the millions just come in over the walls or through gates?

Do they ever lock up the Vatican grounds? Yes, I believe they do.

St. Pope Leo IV built those walls, He was the Vicar of Christ on Earth.
 
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