Pope suggests Trump: not Christian

[Tomdstone]

I guess in our celebrity obsessed culture, it was only a matter of time before the low information voters found their perfect low information candidate.

And who might that be? Could it be Hillary or the robotic Marco? Was George Bush low information when he declared that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? Was Merkel low information when she failed to see the harassment and molestation of German women which would take place after her decision to open the borders?

 

[bekalc]

I think the problem is how Trump lashed out at the Pope and it seems clear he did not have all the information.

Also, the Pope is the Vicar of Christ, and deserves the respect of his office, which seemed lacking in some posts.

Finally, what the Pope said was 100% in line with the faith and the Gospel and the Pope is the world’s number authority regarding faith and morals. It seems in recent years some Catholics forget who the Pope is…successor of Peter, Pastor of the entire Church on earth, and the only man on earth who holds the keys to the kingdom.

Look, I agree with you and respect his office. I think the jest of what he is saying is how I feel. But I actually think it’s okay to say maybe it’s not being said correctly.

I think that if the Pope mentioned that hey the undocumented are human you have a responsibility to show mercy and care for their poor. While saying you also have a right to have borders. I think that maybe Americans would have been more willing to hear it.

Look the border security IS an issue. Its not just about illegal immigration it’s also the drug trafficking. We have a heroin epidemic in this country. Those lives matter too. I just fear the way things were said maybe closed a lot of ears. And I think if we never say anything how can anyone learn. Yes the Popes are infalliable in certain issues. But those are limited in scope. And we need to take seriously what they say. But I think it’s okay to say respectful please here what we are saying too…Didn’t St Paul do that with St. Peter?

We need to find a way to offer more help to our neighbors absolutely. But I also think we need to control our border’s for everyone’s sake. If is not so easy to get drugs into this country perhaps the drug wars in Mexico will go down.

 

[SuperLuigi]

It’s like that movie “Idiocracy.” I guess in our celebrity obsessed culture, it was only a matter of time before the low information voters found their perfect low information candidate.

It seems that many folks supported Obama for trivial reasons.

Also, analysts commented that his campaign to friendly venues on daytime TV helped him win re-election.

 

[SuperLuigi]

I live in a country that’s busily tearing down a pontiff using the caricatured arguments of a big orange clown that may one day be its president as the basis for a parable about working for the common good.

I feel like I went to sleep one day and woke up in some strange dimension where up is down and cats and dogs like each other and there are episodes of two and a half men that aren’t mediocre derivative drivel.

I sympathize, and I suspect a lot of people feel the same way.

But the real pinch comes when the explanation why comes and the personal sacrifice it demands of some.

That’s why it keeps going.

 

[Path_Finder]

Look, I agree with you and respect his office. I think the jest of what he is saying is how I feel. But I actually think it’s okay to say maybe it’s not being said correctly.

I think that if the Pope mentioned that hey the undocumented are human you have a responsibility to show mercy and care for their poor. While saying you also have a right to have borders. I think that maybe Americans would have been more willing to hear it.

Look the border security IS an issue. Its not just about illegal immigration it’s also the drug trafficking. We have a heroin epidemic in this country. Those lives matter too. I just fear the way things were said maybe closed a lot of ears. And I think if we never say anything how can anyone learn. Yes the Popes are infalliable in certain issues. But those are limited in scope. And we need to take seriously what they say. But I think it’s okay to say respectful please here what we are saying too…Didn’t St Paul do that with St. Peter?

We need to find a way to offer more help to our neighbors absolutely. But I also think we need to control our border’s for everyone’s sake. If is not so easy to get drugs into this country perhaps the drug wars in Mexico will go down.

Well said and practical. No where does the CCC say every utterance of the Holy Father is perfect; citing His words as the ultimate moral authority is not Catholic Teaching.

What’s next? Citing the words of a Catholic as always more moral than a Protestant?

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Look, I agree with you and respect his office. I think the jest of what he is saying is how I feel. But I actually think it’s okay to say maybe it’s not being said correctly.

I think that if the Pope mentioned that hey the undocumented are human you have a responsibility to show mercy and care for their poor. While saying you also have a right to have borders. I think that maybe Americans would have been more willing to hear it.

Look the border security IS an issue. Its not just about illegal immigration it’s also the drug trafficking. We have a heroin epidemic in this country. Those lives matter too. I just fear the way things were said maybe closed a lot of ears. And I think if we never say anything how can anyone learn. Yes the Popes are infalliable in certain issues. But those are limited in scope. And we need to take seriously what they say. But I think it’s okay to say respectful please here what we are saying too…Didn’t St Paul do that with St. Peter?

We need to find a way to offer more help to our neighbors absolutely. But I also think we need to control our border’s for everyone’s sake. If is not so easy to get drugs into this country perhaps the drug wars in Mexico will go down.

Didn’t the Holy Father just spend a number of days in Mexico, where he among other things visited Juarez? He addressed drug trafficking human trafficking the poor.

It isn’t as if the Pope has never addressed the migrants all over the world. One of his first visits was to Lampedusa, an Italian island where many migrants pass through and where many of the bodies of the dead migrants who die crossing the Mediterranean are brought.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Well said and practical. No where does the CCC say every utterance of the Holy Father is perfect; citing His words as the ultimate moral authority is not Catholic Teaching.

What’s next? Citing the words of a Catholic as always more moral than a Protestant?

Of course in this scenario, the Holy Father answered a question. He never said, “I declare Donald Trump anathema” He said “if he said these words”. "I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

Donald Trump’s over reacted, and not very charitably.

 

[TheOrigen]

Again, guys, please forgive me, I was never attempting to be uncharitable. It wasn’t an attempt to deride Mr. Trump himself. I was attempting to use colorful language to describe how surreal and absurd the entire situation felt to me. I respect Mr. Trump, I disagree with Mr. Trump on some issues, but I respect him just the same.

At the same time, a businessman and entertainer who happens to have a distinctive tan and is known for a quick, biting, sarcastic wit and a penchant for saying controversial things many people won’t is running for President of the United States, is winning, has taken on the Pope, and even some Catholics are saying the Pope should back down. That’s not an indication of whether or not the Pope should back down, nor whether or not those Catholics are in the right or wrong. It’s just that this situation that I’m describing is so outlandish to me that I find it hilarious. That doesn’t make anyone unqualified or low information or anything, it simply makes reality really, really funny to me and I was attempting to paint my mental picture, not personally insult anyone.

 

[Good_Tidings]

From the article:

But if Trump makes it to the general election, he’s going to have a Pope problem. Pope Francis isway more popular than Trump in the United States, enjoying +53 favorability rating among Americans, compared to Trump’s -27 favorability rating. More importantly, Catholics who call Francis their pope have grown into a finicky but crucial swing vote that doesn’t blindly support Catholic candidates, but does require some courting: Catholic John Kerry lost the Catholic vote to evangelical Christian George W. Bush in 2004, but Barack Obama won it back in both 2008 and2012. This shift is partially because, according to a 2015 study from the Public Religion Research Institute (PRRI), the average Catholic is actually more progressive than the average American on issues such as marriage equality and legislation to help stem the effects of climate change — things Trump openly opposes (the twice-divorced businessman supports “traditional marriage” and believes climate change was invented by the Chinese).
thinkprogress.org/politics/2016/02/19/3751408/donald-trump-general-election-prospects/

 

[Good_Tidings]

I’ve started a new thread to discuss this, but I feel it’s fitting to put it in this thread, too.

From the article:

But if Trump makes it to the general election, he’s going to have a Pope problem. Pope Francis isway more popular than Trump in the United States, enjoying +53 favorability rating among Americans, compared to Trump’s -27 favorability rating. More importantly, Catholics who call Francis their pope have grown into a finicky but crucial swing vote that doesn’t blindly support Catholic candidates, but does require some courting: Catholic John Kerry lost the Catholic vote to evangelical Christian George W. Bush in 2004, but Barack Obama won it back in both 2008 and2012. This shift is partially because, according to a 2015 study from the Public Religion Research Institute (PRRI), the average Catholic is actually more progressive than the average American on issues such as marriage equality and legislation to help stem the effects of climate change — things Trump openly opposes (the twice-divorced businessman supports “traditional marriage” and believes climate change was invented by the Chinese).
thinkprogress.org/politics/2016/02/19/3751408/donald-trump-general-election-prospects/

 

[Micosil]

Look, I agree with you and respect his office. I think the jest of what he is saying is how I feel. But I actually think it’s okay to say maybe it’s not being said correctly.

I think that if the Pope mentioned that hey the undocumented are human you have a responsibility to show mercy and care for their poor. While saying you also have a right to have borders. I think that maybe Americans would have been more willing to hear it.

Look the border security IS an issue. Its not just about illegal immigration it’s also the drug trafficking. We have a heroin epidemic in this country. Those lives matter too. I just fear the way things were said maybe closed a lot of ears. And I think if we never say anything how can anyone learn. Yes the Popes are infalliable in certain issues. But those are limited in scope. And we need to take seriously what they say. But I think it’s okay to say respectful please here what we are saying too…Didn’t St Paul do that with St. Peter?

We need to find a way to offer more help to our neighbors absolutely. But I also think we need to control our border’s for everyone’s sake. If is not so easy to get drugs into this country perhaps the drug wars in Mexico will go down.

I think this attitude and thinking is perhaps the way to go. It strikes a good balance.

But on the issue of St. Paul chastizing St. Peter – you need to note, there’s a difference between two Apostles, people personally hand-picked by God to be key players of the early Church, hashing things out for the general good of the early Church; and the successor of St. Peter (who right now is Pope Francis) and the people commenting on this issue, who for the most part, are lay people (including myself, by the way).

 

[pnewton]

I read the NewsMax article again. I think there is a difference between pointing someone’s personal economic IDEAS as Socialist, Marxist, etc and straight up calling someone a derogatory term. Pat Buchanan, who I don’t think you would call an anti-Catholic, has also criticized some of Francis’ views on certain political issues as more in line with socialism.

Also, can we not call people who disagree with you on political issues “anti-[insert group]/bigot/etc”

Yes, I can, if I detect such strong opinions based on pure ignorance, if the “anti” part does not come from any formed opinion of the facts. I not only can. I did.

As to Pat Buchanan, I have no opinion of him as in this I am the ignorant one.

 

[queenofheartscv]

He is more than that. Even when he is not speaking infallibly, as the successor to Peter and God’s chosen leader of the Church, he is to be respected with humility by us who were not so chosen.

Humility doesn’t mean we can’t ask questions and think through some of the Popes words. As long as we don’t use disrespectful language, I don’t see how it’s wrong to analyze what the Pope says. We should have the right to be honest and say, I don’t understand why the Pope said such and such, because etc etc.

 

[queenofheartscv]

If Barack Obama could win the catholic vote, I sure hope trump can too.

 

[TCEL]

I’ve wondered if it may cost the Republicans the election…

I’m a little more “left” than people in my circle may assume, but I can’t see myself ever voting for a Democrat unless something cataclysmic occurs. I’m the opposite of what the article says. A little more left (meaning center) on matters of finance, climate, and immigration, but “right” on social issues. Again, I think the general Catholic trend on social progressivism is why our religious freedom is being attacked in those same areas.

 

[jimcav]

I’m not sure this will hurt Trump.

If you go to the monster thread “Pope Calls Trump Un Christian”

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=999899

it seems many people are more upset with the Pope and what he said about Trump than the other way around. And this is a Catholic forum! I can only imagine how non-Catholics feel about what our Pope said…

 

[TCEL]

If Barack Obama could win the catholic vote, I sure hope trump can too.

You certainly have a point.

 

[TCEL]

it seems many people are more upset with the Pope and what he said about Trump than the other way around. And this is a Catholic forum! I can only imagine how non-Catholics feel about what our Pope said…

Yes. I had wanted to finally ask some people I know what they think about the Pope, and had plans to do so, until this latest press conference. So I didn’t.

 

[OriginalJS]

Some will resent the Pope getting involved in US politics.

 

[abucs]

Humility doesn’t mean we can’t ask questions and think through some of the Popes words. As long as we don’t use disrespectful language, I don’t see how it’s wrong to analyze what the Pope says. We should have the right to be honest and say, I don’t understand why the Pope said such and such, because etc etc.

Indeed. We should have the right to be honest.