Pope: World powers did nothing about Auschwitz

[gilliam]

All these complaints assume the war being over as a given. How could the Jews been helped without defeating Germany, which the allies were trying to do?

Millions were being killed and no spot light was being shown on the activity; nor any of the railroads or other infrastructure bombed. Lots could have been done. Nothing was done. This was not a priority for the allies. I think that is exactly what the Pope was saying.

 

[commenter]

The pope’s harsh assessments came in impromptu remarks during his visit to Turin, northern Italy, when he told young people he understands how they find it hard to trust the world.
]

I bolded the crucial words. We don’t know the context! There is a difference between impromptu remarks (possibly in response to a question or remark we do not know), and a formal comprehensive statement. I am sure there are 9000 other important factors about the 1930 - 1960 era that he did not comment on here. So what?

Pope Francis talks “impromptu” far more often than his predecessors. This is often a good thing, in my opinion, because he relates well to individuals on a “feeling” level. This is spontaneous, not a prepared lecture intended to cover the topic. Sometimes the media takes things he said out of context - perhaps they might point out he made NO MENTION of the Trinity in these remarks and OMITTED the Church’s teaching on contraception.

So don’t jump to conclusions about what was said, and not said. We weren’t there.

 

[unstoppable_II]

Millions were being killed and no spot light was being shown on the activity; nor any of the railroads or other infrastructure bombed. Lots could have been done. Nothing was done. This was not a priority for the allies. I think that is exactly what the Pope was saying.

The easiest job in the world is Monday Morning quarterbacking. You can have only one priority; winning the war was the priority. Anything else would have prolonged the war.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Pope Francis on Sunday denounced what he called the “great powers” of the world for failing to act when there was intelligence indicating Jews, Christians, homosexuals, and others were being transported to death camps in Europe during World War II.

He also decried the deaths of Christians in concentration camps in Russia under the Stalin dictatorship, which followed the war.

The pope’s harsh assessments came in impromptu remarks during his visit to Turin, northern Italy, when he told young people he understands how they find it hard to trust the world.

Referring to concentration camps that came “a little later” in Russia, Francis wondered aloud: “How many Christians suffered, were killed” there?

Lamenting the cynicism of world players in the 1930s and 1940s, Francis said: “the great powers divided up Europe like a cake.”

cruxnow.com/church/2015/06/21/pope-world-powers-did-nothing-when-jews-were-taken-to-auschwitz/

How about our doing something to remedying children starving to death at a rate of 9,500 per day? People turn away!

 

[Cider]

The easiest job in the world is Monday Morning quarterbacking. You can have only one priority; winning the war was the priority. Anything else would have prolonged the war.

Monday Morning quarterbacking 75 years later no less.

 

[unstoppable_II]

Monday Morning quarterbacking 75 years later no less.

Mega

 

[friardchips]

So? Having info is not a solution. How could we have helped the Jews [or anyone] without getting to them first? How could we get to them without beating the Germans in battle, which is what we were trying to do? It’s not like we could call up Der Fuehrer and ask for a cease-fire while we tended to concentration camp prisoners. Get real.

For starters: ‘We had troops situated in Northern France having been mobilized there. They were not used. After the war, the Russians were given access to Jewish prisoners! In the Levant, the West did not want to grant the Jews an independent state which is what the jewish people wanted. Many jewish refugees were sent over seas, to the West, only to be turned away, and died in the journey - women and children present.’

What “obvious external signs” are you referring to?

Well, the fact that jews were being rounded up. And the fact that it took years after the war for them to finally have their own home even after all they had been through - leads to the real perspective. There were such operations involving intelligence.

A fairly good book on code-breaking from WW-I through WW-II is The Battle of Wits by Stephen Budiansky. It’s probably out of print, but might be available on line with one of the many used book sellers.

Is this unbiased? And outside-the-box? By that I mean, does it tell us truth or the impression of truth? Thank you, either way.

An answer can always be found. It depends on the motivation, the intention, as to whether one is found and how that answer is to come about.

 

[gilliam]

The easiest job in the world is Monday Morning quarterbacking. You can have only one priority; winning the war was the priority. Anything else would have prolonged the war.

FDR going on the radio and shedding light on the camps would have prolonged the war?

Bombing the railroads leading to the camps would have prolonged the war?

IMHO, if they were american POWs being murdered in these camps, and the US population knew, we would have found it a priority.

 

[friardchips]

IMHO, if they were american POWs being murdered in these camps, and the US population knew, we would have found it a priority.

Yes!

The U.S. only entered the war thanks to a discussion with Churchill; not least, necessity motivated by Pearl Harbour. I don’t want to knock the U.S. though. They played a part in the war at the end and they also apparently salvaged all the art stolen by Hitler which might instead have found its way into the hands of Stalin. Just a pity that the Jews weren’t held in the same regard.

 

[ARSpade]

We must have had info. that Jews were being sent to concentration camps. I would like to know more about the enigma code (not through the watching of big budget films) as I wonder whether we had info. of the Holocaust due to the breaking of Germany’s codes - on top of obvious external signs. We had troops situated in Northern France having been mobilized there. They were not used. After the war, the Russians were given access to Jewish prisoners! In the Levant, the West did not want to grant the Jews an independent state which is what the jewish people wanted. Many jewish refugees were sent over seas, to the West, only to be turned away, and died in the journey - women and children present.

The reason has to come down to anti-semitism. This is my :twocents:

A lot of info on Auwshwitz came from a more direct source than SIGINT. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witold_Pilecki

We knew. Lots of people knew. Knowing is half the battle, but the other half is being able to do something and we didn’t have the tech or the resources at the start of the war or even towards the end

 

[ARSpade]

FDR going on the radio and shedding light on the camps would have prolonged the war?

Bombing the railroads leading to the camps would have prolonged the war?

IMHO, if they were american POWs being murdered in these camps, and the US population knew, we would have found it a priority.

US POWs and Allied personnel were, in fact, murdered by the Nazis. And even more so by the Japanese.

Little was done about it because little could be done.

 

[unstoppable_II]

Millions were being killed and no spot light was being shown on the activity; nor any of the railroads or other infrastructure bombed. Lots could have been done. Nothing was done. This was not a priority for the allies. I think that is exactly what the Pope was saying.

The Allies were bombing as much as they could. Bombing helpless concentration camp victims to smithereens would only serve to make latter day critics feel good, IOW, nothing useful.

 

[friardchips]

A lot of info on Auwshwitz came from a more direct source than SIGINT. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witold_Pilecki

We knew. Lots of people knew. Knowing is half the battle, but the other half is being able to do something and we didn’t have the tech or the resources at the start of the war or even towards the end

Yes, it is always difficult. But we have to take responsibility. I think the world has to. After I read some unbiased accounts that went into the poitical intrigue of the Middle East around that time I had come to the same conclusion as the Pope has now. And nothing is beyond imagination. I think this is the spirit of solidarity for the suffering - to seek forgiveness. Jews died in big numbers. And as soon as the world starts seeking forgiveness then it can heal. And one of the things that western nations will not budge on are things to do with the world wars. I consider these wars are what make our countries proud. People did make us proud - the trench soldiers and airmen etc…the doctors and nurses and housewives who had to brave the effects; but, for the fact that so many innocent jews were murdered, tortured, brutally treated, with no help during the whole saga, has to make the human being with a conscience say: “there must have been something we could have done, did we do enough, if we knew”. The intention when caring is enough to fuel a great deal, IMHO.

 

[Phil502]

We could not even help the Marines caught in the Phillipines, how are we going to get into Fortress Europe to liberate concentration camps. It’s not all as easy as it sounds to some people.

 

[friardchips]

Lamenting the cynicism of world players in the 1930s and 1940s, Francis said: “the great powers divided up Europe like a cake.”

cruxnow.com/church/2015/06/21/pope-world-powers-did-nothing-when-jews-were-taken-to-auschwitz/

That was the attitude. True. They did.

 

[meltzerboy]

Pope Francis on Sunday denounced what he called the “great powers” of the world for failing to act when there was intelligence indicating Jews, Christians, homosexuals, and others were being transported to death camps in Europe during World War II.

He also decried the deaths of Christians in concentration camps in Russia under the Stalin dictatorship, which followed the war.

The pope’s harsh assessments came in impromptu remarks during his visit to Turin, northern Italy, when he told young people he understands how they find it hard to trust the world.

Referring to concentration camps that came “a little later” in Russia, Francis wondered aloud: “How many Christians suffered, were killed” there?

Lamenting the cynicism of world players in the 1930s and 1940s, Francis said: “the great powers divided up Europe like a cake.”

cruxnow.com/church/2015/06/21/pope-world-powers-did-nothing-when-jews-were-taken-to-auschwitz/

FDR has been criticized, in particular, for not bombing the railroad tracks. It would not have stopped the war but it might have at least slowed down or even put an end to the transportation of Jews, Catholics, JW’s, gays, gypsies, and others to the death camps. Pope Francis is absolutely correct in blaming the world leaders of that time.

 

[RACJ]

Pope Francis on Sunday denounced what he called the “great powers” of the world for failing to act when there was intelligence indicating Jews, Christians, homosexuals, and others were being transported to death camps in Europe during World War II. He also decried the deaths of Christians in concentration camps in Russia under the Stalin dictatorship, which followed the war.
The pope’s harsh assessments came in impromptu remarks during his visit to Turin, northern Italy, when he told young people he understands how they find it hard to trust the world.
Referring to concentration camps that came “a little later” in Russia, Francis wondered aloud: “How many Christians suffered, were killed” there? Lamenting the cynicism of world players in the 1930s and 1940s, Francis said: “the great powers divided up Europe like a cake.” cruxnow.com/church/2015/06/21/pope-world-powers-did-nothing-when-jews-were-taken-to-auschwitz/

Did he mention that Pope Pius did everything he could to save as many Jews as possible? I hope so.

 

[meltzerboy]

Did he mention that Pope Pius did everything he could to save as many Jews as possible? I hope so.

Yes, that is true. Pope Pius worked to shelter and save Jews behind the scenes, and he saved hundreds, even thousands according to recent estimates. But I think it would be slightly immodest for Pope Francis to mention the positive role the Vatican played during World War II. Besides, this is still a controversial issue among historians.

 

[unstoppable_II]

For starters: *'We had troops situated in Northern France having been mobilized there. They were not used.
*
I suppose they were there on holiday just because they weren’t put to use that you think they should have been in view of 75 years of 20/20 hindsight.

After the war, the Russians were given access to Jewish prisoners!

 

[ucfengr]

For starters: ‘We had troops situated in Northern France having been mobilized there. They were not used. After the war, the Russians were given access to Jewish prisoners! In the Levant, the West did not want to grant the Jews an independent state which is what the jewish people wanted. Many jewish refugees were sent over seas, to the West, only to be turned away, and died in the journey - women and children present.’

We didn’t have troops in Northern France that weren’t being used. Even if we did, Northern France is a long ways from Germany, and the Wehrmacht wasn’t likely to let them just march on in. Due to difficulties in securing an intact port, the Allied forces were supply constrained into 1945.

The Soviets occupied Eastern Europe. We really couldn’t stop them from doing whatever they wanted to Jews there. Also, we were still fighting Japan and until Japan surrendered from the use of atomic weapons, it was assumed that we’d probably need Soviet support to invade the Japanese home islands. You know, at the time, the Japanese were killing 5,000 Chinese a day. The Jews weren’t the only people in trouble.