Possible Soon to be ex-Catholic

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michaelp:
(I guess we need someone to interpret the Church!!).

IMichael
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Hi Michaelp,
I guess we already have Someone to interpret the church. His name is Jesus and the Holy Spirit will lead you. Remember Jesus has consecrated Himself to meet our need in understanding.
Christ be with you
walk in love
edwinGhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
 
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RobedWithLight:
What is the point of learning and being corrected, if the place where it is supposed to take place is Hell, where the worm does not die and the fire is not quenched ?

“Correction” assumes that something can be “corrected”, that is, made better… The damned in hell can no longer be “made better”, my friend. It is a place of eternal punishment, not correction.

Gerry 🙂
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Hif Gerry ,
I read the Lake of Fire as being the place of eternal punishment. I thank you for your words though as they have given me a thread to follow.
Christ be with you
walk in lovehttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
edwinG
 
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edwinG:
If you persist in the stance that only in the catholic church can you find salvation then you are completely wrong, to the nth degree. Christ himself tells me you are wrong because here I am and not a member of the catholic church, but Christ lives in me, and actively.
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Human is a creature who can easily deceive itself.

Christ does not live in you. Period.
 
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edwinG:
HCan you tell me what the catholic church means when it says there is no salvation outside the catholic church.
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That there’s no salvation outside the Church. It means what it plainly says.

Those who through no fault of their own do not know Christ Church but seek God sincerely and do not die in the state of mortal sin MAY be saved. Such person, if saved, will be joinned with the Church and he will be a full member of the Church adhering to all the Church teachings.

The “through no fault of their own” is a layman term for invincible ignorance. You can read about some guidance as to when invincible ignorance aplly and when the ignorance is vincible by reading this little piece from Jimmy Akin.
I would be overjoyed to hear the catholic church proclaim Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.”

I will ask you for a straight answer. Do you believe Romans 10:9. or do you have to add to it.
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Sorry the Church does not believe that one has to confess with mouth because that would make the mutes, Children and mentally incapacitated people unable to be saved.
I have followed the threads back and found your post.
Can you please explain the meaning of these two portions.
the end of 818 " and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."
819" and in themselves calls to “Catholic unity”
Christ be with you
walk in lovehttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
edwinG
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By calling you into unity it means that in your current state you’re not in unity with the One True Church.
 
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montanaman:
Forget all the “esoteric” justification/salvation stuff. The most amazing thing, and perhaps the most telling, is that you are seriously considering leaving Christ in the Eucharist. You don’t believe in the Real Presence? Transubstantiation?
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That’s it! To leave the catholic church is to leave Christ’s REAL PRESENCE in the Church He founded.

Eucaristic miracles:

therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/lanciano.html

Please remember that love comes from the heart. Please go and pray before the Holy Eucarist in the Tabernacle. Jesus can take everything. He can take your doubt, too. When you offer him your doubt, you tell Him that you want His help. You tell him it’s important for you to set **His will first ** and **to form your will after his. **

“Our father, who art in heaven; hallowed be Thy name; Thy kingdom come; **Thy will be done ** on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread; and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us, and lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil. Amen”.

A song about trust in Jesus by Karl Kohlhase:

k4communications.com/karl/jesusitrust.html

A picture to look at to get get close to how much Jesus loves us:

geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/8351/

At last I will recommend seven things:
  1. Go and talk to your catholic priest whom you feel comfortable with!
  2. This prayersite will help you to give your questions and doubt to Jesus for healing:
sacredspace.ie/
  1. I hope you don’t feel that I am impolite, but I want to recommend a book that at first might seem to have nothing to do with your situation. It’s a book about setting bounderies. May be that’s a book that has somting to tell to a person who has jumped from one place to another back again and still wants to jump.
amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0310247454/qid=1100531264/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/102-2956148-5317769
  1. Try to pray the rosery every day!
  2. You have not mentioned that your friend will not accsept you as a catholic, but if that is the case, he doesn’t respect you very much: RUN, RUN, RUN (God will send you some more respectful later)!
  3. Set a date for first deciding. What about after easter, next year? Tell you yourself and your freind that it is nothing to discuss at the moment. You need time to think and pray. After Easter next year you will open up to take steps for further decition, but not now!
(Pleace excuse any spellingmistakes. English is not my first language)!

I wish you all the best and hope that you don’t feel me like an intruder!

:blessyou:

Fram G. Grace (a former lutheran and a catholic for EVER).
 
The fact that the Roman Catholic church is without external mercy, claiming that all ( very minor exceptions) who dont belong will go to hell shows their lack of love; and faith in God’s wisdom.
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Edwin G,

You have NO RIGHT to counsel a catholic with your anti-catholic view. Don’t add injury upon insult.

Pio
 
How could you ever consider giving up the Holy Eucharist?Jesus said he would never leave us. He sent us his Holy Sprirt and is realy present in the Holy Eucharist.
 
Mind you, I dont believe in your purgatory: as the place of learning and correction on your death to this earth is a place called hell. After your resurrection, all are resurrected, when Christ returns, the rapture to keep you from the melting heavens and earth, you are judged and either go to the Kindgom of God or to the Lake of Fire.
Christ be with you
walk in lovehttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
edwinG
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Edwin G,

Just again, your view on the doctrine of purgatory is distorted. The Catholic Church says that at the end of time, when Christ comes to judge the living and the dead, there are only two places to go–heaven or hell.

Purgatory is only a temporal state for the faithful who are already saved but still needs purification. They will ALL go to heaven, their final destination after their purification since “nothing unclean will enter heaven”–not even the slightest stain of venial sin. Purgatory will cease to exist after Judgement Day.

Pio
 
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edwinG:
Hi Michaelp,
I guess we already have Someone to interpret the church. His name is Jesus and the Holy Spirit will lead you. Remember Jesus has consecrated Himself to meet our need in understanding.
edwinGhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
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Oh. I see. The Holy Spirit and Jesus have led millions of Protestants to thousands of different answers to the same questions. :whacky:

If the Spirit isn’t leading everyone, how do you know he’s leading you?

A little knowledge of the history of Christianity and of where we got the Bible would do you – and others like you – a world of good.

JMJ Jay
Ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, ecstatic to be Catholic.
 
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edwinG:
Hi All4lifetoo,
If the catholic church means something else could you please explain it to me. I imagine your catechism is quite a long work and my time is short. I also imagine that your catechism teaches Mary and the Pope which disagrees with me so I can find no reason to invest my time in a book in which I am in disagreement with.

Your statement here, unfortunately, screams of ignorance - invincible ignorance, perhaps?

You state you “can find no reason to invest my time in a book in which I am in disagreement with” shows that you are not interested in learning the truth about what the Catholic Church teaches but only in perputrating untruths and implying inuendo on your interpretation of what the Church teaches. This is the problem with most Protestants or non-demoninationals that I have experienced. You don’t seem to be interested in learning the truth but only in trying to drag others away from the truth.

Instead of persisting in your ignorance, read the Catechism of the the Catholic Church. All of our teachings are explained in great detail - then and only then can you talk about those teachings.

We here on this board are trying to explain the truth to you but you only insist on telling us we are wrong because the Holy Spirit lives in you. Well, my friend, the Holy Spirit lives in us as well the Church that Christ founded on this earth.

To say that you don’t have the time to invest in reading the Catechism says you’re not interested in the truth. It must be nice to say that you need no further instruction about your faith; that what theologians and scholars have learned and discovered in 2000 years is of no consequence to you! God forbid, if you read it, you might actually learn something! You might actually learn some little tidbit you never knew before and that what the Catholic Church believes is really true!!

Wouldn’t that be a kick?!!!
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edwinG wrote:
Listen to me please. The Holy Spirit lives in me and leads me daily. I do my utmost to do Christ’s will expressed to me by the Holy Spirit. If you persist in the stance that only in the catholic church can you find salvation then you are completely wrong, to the nth degree. Christ himself tells me you are wrong because here I am and not a member of the catholic church, but Christ lives in me, and actively.
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Christ speaks: “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life and I will raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.” John 6:53-56 RSV

You must be Catholic, in fact or in desire, to be saved. Christ founded the Church for the salvation of the world. Unless you receive His Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity, in the Holy Eucharist, you have no life in you. I didn’t say it – Christ did.

JMJ Jay
 
Jurist,

The Spirit and Forms of Protestantism by Louis Bouyer is ‘must reading’ for anyone in your situation.

Bouyer (now deceased) was a (French) Lutheran minister who became a Catholic priest after much study. He analyzes the theology of the Catholic and Protestant positions on Justification and other issues with precision and clarity – and with appreciation for both points of view. A truly objective work.

amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1889334316?v=glance
 
I concur that *Not By Faith Alone *by Robert Sungenis is a must read.

I also recommend reading following debate transcript between between Scott Hahn, Catholic convert and former Presbyterian minister, and Dr. Robert Knudson of Westminster Seminary.

The Justification Debate
mindspring.com/~jdarcy/files/justify.htm
 
EdwinG,

The earth does indeed have many Churches, but not all of them have the lampstand of Christ in their midst.

Proper discernment is needed to determine the falsity of rebellious claims to authority, and those whose authority is truly apostolic. Heb 13:17 has been disregarded by protestantism, in my opinion. Only those having apostolic succession can be called our church leaders in the sense that Heb 13:17 intends. Who do you submit to on this earth? Anybody? If not, then your ecclesiology is quite different than the inspired author of the Epistle of Hebrews. If you do submit to an earthly leader, what are his credentials? What makes you certain he has been given authority by God to care for your soul? Was he ordained by a successor to the apostles? If not, isn’t he committing the sin of Korah’s rebellion warned against in the Epistle of Jude?
 
To jurist:

I am so glad you are at least willing to learn why you disagree and are trying to come to some understanding. Please don’t make your decision before you find the truth - and I am confident that you will find the truth in Christ’s church - the Catholic Church!

God bless yor search for the truth.
 
Hi Jurist 12,

I’ve been reading R.C. Sproul’s books for awhile now; we’re in the same denomination (PCA). Now that I’m re-examing the Catholic faith of my youth, I’m starting to question some of his beliefs. He is always quoting from St. Augustine and St. Aquinas, whom he calls the two greatest thinkers of the Christian church. Well, if he feels that way about them, why doesn’t he accept everything they write since they were staunch Catholics?

It wouldn’t surpise me if one day we hear that R.C. has been received into the Catholic Church!

Blessings,
Gene C.
 
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itsjustdave1988:
EdwinG,

The earth does indeed have many Churches, but not all of them have the lampstand of Christ in their midst.

Proper discernment is needed to determine the falsity of rebellious claims to authority, and those whose authority is truly apostolic. Heb 13:17 has been disregarded by protestantism, in my opinion. Only those having apostolic succession can be called our church leaders in the sense that Heb 13:17 intends. Who do you submit to on this earth? Anybody? If not, then your ecclesiology is quite different than the inspired author of the Epistle of Hebrews. If you do submit to an earthly leader, what are his credentials? What makes you certain he has been given authority by God to care for your soul? Was he ordained by a successor to the apostles? If not, isn’t he committing the sin of Korah’s rebellion warned against in the Epistle of Jude?
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Hi itsjustdave1988,
I haven’t attended many churches so I dont really know what is taught. I started as a child in an anglican church until my teenage years, attended for about 2 years in the early 80’s and then after a year or so here in Thailand I went to the local church near, what was, my place of work. I am 58 now. I just look at my life and as Christ is my witness, I am loved by Him and my love for Him is growing as the Holy Spirit leads me daily.
Earthly discernment is of no use. ( I could never trust in my wisdom, come Lord Jesus come)
apostolic succession is earthly wisdom. Why is it necessary? Dont you believe in the Holy Spirit? If you do what limits have you placed on His ability?
Who do I submit to? As I walk in love, everyone who asks except I wont ( and hope I dont have to emulate poor Peter) deny Christ.
What makes you certain he has been given authority by God to care for your soul? Christ cares for my soul. The Holy Spirit passes on what He hears and He hears Christ ( the eternal Holy Word) who always obeys His Father. You are too full of worries.
You are a member of the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of heaven. You are in a spiritual kingdom. Practise living in the Spirit.
Christ be with you
walk in lovehttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
edwinG
 
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Katholikos:
edwinG wrote:

Christ speaks: “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life and I will raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.” John 6:53-56 RSV

You must be Catholic, in fact or in desire, to be saved. Christ founded the Church for the salvation of the world. Unless you receive His Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity, in the Holy Eucharist, you have no life in you. I didn’t say it – Christ did.

JMJ Jay
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Hi Katholikos,
I have no desire to be a roman catholic, but my desire is to do His will. I will go where ever He leads me, even if it is to the catholic church, which I strongly doubt.
Can you see my words.
Can you understand my words.
Christ lives in me, He has given me work to do.
I try my hardest to obey Him by following the Holy Spirit.
I wake up at night singing in my heart to Christ.
Ask me to witness to you about His grace in my life and I will till you ask me to stop. You could not deny Christ in me.
You are mistaken to believe you must be catholic or you must say that satan leads me to Christ many times a day because some spirit does. It is the Holy Spirit in my life.
Please open your heart to the truth.
Christ be with youhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
walk in love
edwinG
 
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DianJo:
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edwinG:
Hi All4lifetoo,

.

We here on this board are trying to explain the truth to you but you only insist on telling us we are wrong because the Holy Spirit lives in you. Well, my friend, the Holy Spirit lives in us as well the Church that Christ founded on this earth.
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?!!!Hi DianJo,
I am so pleased however that you mentioned the Holy Spirit living in us and by in us, I imagine you mean in you as well.
Please witness to me and the other members of the list about the personal workings of the Holy Spirit in your life.
I love hearing these stories as they are truly edifying.
Christ be with you
walk in lovehttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
edwinG
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Katholikos:
Oh. I see. The Holy Spirit and Jesus have led millions of Protestants to thousands of different answers to the same questions. :whacky:

If the Spirit isn’t leading everyone, how do you know he’s leading you?

A little knowledge of the history of Christianity and of where we got the Bible would do you – and others like you – a world of good.

JMJ Jay
Ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, ecstatic to be Catholic.
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Hi Katholikos,
You are obviously witnessing to the fact that the Holy Spirit does not lead you in a manner which you recognise.
You are also witnessing to the fact that you doubt His ability to lead individuals.
And then you chose to mock Him by your wisdom in what He is doing with His church which is not a denominational church, but His body.
You are also witness to your lack of faith. ( this is not any fault in your self, as faith is a gift, but it isnt something to shout out about.)
I know the Holy Spirit is leading me because of all the workings in my life especially over the last 41/2 years. I know because I wake up during the night singing worship songs to Jesus. I know because He reveals His word to me. I know because He moves in me and that is an experience greater than any other in the world except when He moved in me when I was drunk. I have not had any alcohol since. I know because when my wife prayed to Him without my knowledge, I was able to give up smoking. Since He has come in my life I have given up addictions to sex and pornography, alcohol, smoking, jazz music, golf, the internet, and so on. Do you want me to keep the list going. Tell me how many times you would like me to witness to you.
Now I would like you to witness for me and to all the other memberes of this list. Tell us how the Holy Spirit works in your life.
Chirst be with you
walk in love
edwinGhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
 
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