Prayer of Pope to Mary: To Whom Would the Apostles have pointed him ..Mary or Jesus?

[Leeann]

ron77nyc

Delegates attending the Vatican and United Nations (UN) inspired annual interfaith congress “The Future of God”, held during October in Fátima, heard how the Shrine is to be developed into a centre where all the religions of the world will gather to pay homage to their various gods. The Congress was held in the Paul VI Pastoral Centre and presided over by the Cardinal Patriarch of Lisbon José de Cruz Policarpo.

The Shrine’s rector, Monsignor Luciano Guerra, told the Congress that Fátima “will change for the better.” Addressing Hindu, Muslim, Jewish, Orthodox, Buddhist and African Pagan representatives he stated:
"The future of Fátima, or the adoration of God and His mother at this holy Shrine, must pass through the creation of a shrine where different religions can mingle. The inter-religious dialogue in Portugal, and in the Catholic Church, is still in an embryonic phase, but the Shrine of Fátima is not indifferent to this fact and is already open to being a universalistic place of vocation."
The Hindu representative Ansshok Ansraj, described how already in the Far East millions of Hindus are getting “positive vibrations” from visiting Marian shrines without endangering their faith.

Monsignor Guerra pointed out that the very fact that Fátima is the name of a Muslim and Mohammed’s daughter, is indicative that the Shrine must be open to the co-existence of various faiths and beliefs. According to the Monsignor: “Therefore we must assume that it was the will of the Blessed Virgin Mary that this comes about this way.” Traditional Catholics opposed to the Congress were described by the Monsignor as “old fashioned, narrow minded, fanatic extremists and provocateurs.”

This is pretty sad.

 

[RobHom]

This is pretty sad.

Forbid that any possibilities of civilities should ever arise…

Or is it just your general aversions speaking out?

 

[AshleyBelle]

This is pretty sad.

Is it sad to share Christ’s love with other religions? Is it sad to welcome other religions into holy places, so that we can at the very least achieve a peaceful dialogue?

It doesn’t comprimise anyone’s beliefs to welcome people of other faiths for dialogue. And the mere fact that people who don’t even know about Jesus and His mother still “felt” something powerful speaks volumes. God reveals Himself to our hearts in His own way. Maybe some of these people will leave Fatima, with a desire to “get to the bottom of it” as far as the “feeling” they got. Maybe they will leave feeling like Christians are living up to the example Christ set for us. To love one another.

I guess I just don’t see what’s “sad” about this article.

 

[Leeann]

ron77nyc

Forbid that any possibilities of civilities should ever arise…

Or is it just your general aversions speaking out?

I see a whole new “thread topic” coming up……

 

[AshleyBelle]

ron77nyc

Forbid that any possibilities of civilities should ever arise…

Or is it just your general aversions speaking out?

I see a whole new “thread topic” coming up……
Do you not invite people of other faiths to your church? If somebody who doesn't know God comes to you, would you invite them to a Sunday service? Even if afterwards they say to you "well..you know, I don't think I believe everything that happend at that service, but it was very reverent..I felt something powerful..and it was generous of you to invite me!" How is that bad???

 

[Protestant101]

Forbid that any possibilities of civilities should ever arise…

Or is it just your general aversions speaking out?

Is this lesson #1 in “civility?”

 

[guanophore]

traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/g06htPortugalNewsDocs.htm
Portugal News Documents on the
Fatima Interfaith Congress and Shrine

Fatima to Become Interfaith Shrine

November 11, 2003

Delegates attending the Vatican and United Nations (UN) inspired annual interfaith congress “The Future of God”, held during October in Fátima, heard how the Shrine is to be developed into a centre where all the religions of the world will gather to pay homage to their various gods. The Congress was held in the Paul VI Pastoral Centre and presided over by the Cardinal Patriarch of Lisbon José de Cruz Policarpo.

The Shrine’s rector, Monsignor Luciano Guerra, told the Congress that Fátima “will change for the better.” Addressing Hindu, Muslim, Jewish, Orthodox, Buddhist and African Pagan representatives he stated:
“The future of Fátima, or the adoration of God and His mother at this holy Shrine, must pass through the creation of a shrine where different religions can mingle. The inter-religious dialogue in Portugal, and in the Catholic Church, is still in an embryonic phase, but the Shrine of Fátima is not indifferent to this fact and is already open to being a universalistic place of vocation.”
The Hindu representative Ansshok Ansraj, described how already in the Far East millions of Hindus are getting “positive vibrations” from visiting Marian shrines without endangering their faith.

Monsignor Guerra pointed out that the very fact that Fátima is the name of a Muslim and Mohammed’s daughter, is indicative that the Shrine must be open to the co-existence of various faiths and beliefs. According to the Monsignor: “Therefore we must assume that it was the will of the Blessed Virgin Mary that this comes about this way.” Traditional Catholics opposed to the Congress were described by the Monsignor as “old fashioned, narrow minded, fanatic extremists and provocateurs.”

For the first time in the 86-year history of Fátima all of the Pagan and Christian delegates were invited to participate in the Ecumenical celebrations. One of the principle speakers, the Jesuit theologian Father Jacques Dupuis, was insistent that the religions of the world must unite. “The religion of the future will be a general converging of religions in a universal Christ that will satisfy all”, he said.

I hope that you do not believe that this person’s personal opinions represent Catholic Teaching.

This statement is very contrary to Catholic teaching. Yes, we do want Christ to satisfy all, but because He gave His life for the world, not because of a “generaly converging of religions” or creating some kind of false christ that will “satisify all”. It is clear that Jesus will never satisfy all.

The Belgium born theologian argued:
“The other religious traditions in the world are part of God’s plan for humanity and the Holy Spirit is operating and present in Buddhist, Hindu and other sacred writings of Christian and non-Christian faiths as well.” In an impassioned plea he said: “The universality of God’s kingdom permits this, and this is nothing more than a diversified form of sharing in the same mystery of salvation. In the end it is hoped that the Christian will become a better Christian and each Hindu a better Hindu.”

This is consistent with Catholic teaching. God desires that all be saved, and come to the knowledge of the Truth. He manifests Himself in the Creation, and it every human heart.

An official statement put out by the Congress called for a non-proselytising approach by all religions.
“No one religion can irradiate another”, it said “or strengthen itself by downplaying others and an open dialogue is the way to building bridges and tearing down walls of centuries of hate. What is needed is that each religion be true to its faith integrally and treat each religion on the same footing of equality with no inferior or superiority complexes.”
It emphasised that the secret to peace amongst all religions is admitting that contradictions exist between creeds but to concentrate on what unites them as opposed to what separates them.
ron77nyc;4397582:

Delegates agreed that religious shrines, including Fátima, should be revamped every 25 years to reflect modern day trends and beliefs. The Shrine of Fátima is about to undergo a complete reconstruction with a new stadium-like basilica being erected close by the existing one built in 1921.

this is a very sad statement…It is like the buildings they put on top of the Dome of the Rock.

One more to follow. What conclusion would you come to after reading both?

After reading both, I still adhere to my original statement that the Doctrines of Mary prededed these events by 1800 years.

Fatima, valuable as it is as an evangelical event, is not part of the divine deposit of faith. It is a private revelation, and as such, is not binding on the faithful. The Marian doctrines are corollaries to the doctrines on the nature of Jesus.

 

[AshleyBelle]

I wanted to apologize if my post had too much of a sarcastic tone… But I really do believe something like what the article you posted is a good idea for dialogue between Christians and people of other faiths We need an atmosphere where people feel like their beliefs are respected, and that they won’t be attacked for disagreeing…

Now as for the last part… I didn’t read that because you had left it out. But I went back and read the end paragraph of the article… And THAT I would agree is a “sad” idea…

Father Jacques Dupuis, was insistent that the religions of the world must unite. “The religion of the future will be a general converging of religions in a universal Christ that will satisfy all”, he said

You didn’t post this part, but I do agree, I don’t like that statement. But probably not for the same reasons as you… I do believe that Christ manifests Himself to people’s hearts in ways that we don’t understand… I think that anyone who faithfully believes in any part of the “truth” that Christ revealed…they are holding a piece of Christ, even if by another name. Ideally, it is my goal to share the fullness of Christ with those who only know a part of Him, or don’t know Him at all…

But I trust in the mercy of God, and I believe that even people of other faiths could still be “mystically” connected to the Body of Christ…but that isn’t for me to judge It’s only for me to share Christ, fully, so that I may be an instrument for the Holy Spirit to reveal MORE truth to others Does that make sense?

Anyway, while I believe others may still be mystically connected to the body of Christ through their own “truth” …I do NOT personally think that makes Christ a “universal Christ…” This sort of terminology is dangerous and stretching it…

So like guanophore said, I hope you do not take this individual’s opinion as “church teaching” on the matter.

In fact…this is a PERFECT example of why we need the church!
Think back historically…when the church was defining the trinity… There were bishops and thoelogians who had all SORT of “opinions” on the nature of God… But it took the authority of Christ’s church under the guidance of the Holy Spirit to give us the TRUE definition despite all the opinions.

Similarly…bishops today may come up with strange things like “universal Christ…” And it will NOT be sanctioned or taught by the church. The church is not going to “adapt” anything or “change” any part of the truth Christ revealed. We have the promise of Christ Himself for this! One priest deciding that “the future religion will be a universal Christ” is not going to change the Church’s DUTY to guard the truth… To guard the very nature of Christ against these sorts of opinions.

I hope that helps

 

[Leeann]

Delegates attending the Vatican and United Nations (UN) inspired annual interfaith congress “The Future of God”, held during October in Fátima, heard how the Shrine is to be developed into a centre where all the religions of the world will gather to pay homage to their various gods. The Congress was held in the Paul VI Pastoral Centre and presided over by the Cardinal Patriarch of Lisbon José de Cruz Policarpo.

The Shrine’s rector, Monsignor Luciano Guerra, told the Congress that Fátima “will change for the better.” Addressing Hindu, Muslim, Jewish, Orthodox, Buddhist and African Pagan representatives he stated:
“The future of Fátima, or the adoration of God and His mother at this holy Shrine, must pass through the creation of a shrine where different religions can mingle. The inter-religious dialogue in Portugal, and in the Catholic Church, is still in an embryonic phase, but the Shrine of Fátima is not indifferent to this fact and is already open to being a universalistic place of vocation.”
The Hindu representative Ansshok Ansraj, described how already in the Far East millions of Hindus are getting “positive vibrations” from visiting Marian shrines without endangering their faith.

Monsignor Guerra pointed out that the very fact that Fátima is the name of a Muslim and Mohammed’s daughter, is indicative that the Shrine must be open to the co-existence of various faiths and beliefs. According to the Monsignor: “Therefore we must assume that it was the will of the Blessed Virgin Mary that this comes about this way.” Traditional Catholics opposed to the Congress were described by the Monsignor as “old fashioned, narrow minded, fanatic extremists and provocateurs.”

**Originally Posted by Leeann **
This is pretty sad.

AshleyBelle:
Is it sad to share Christ’s love with other religions? Is it sad to welcome other religions into holy places, so that we can at the very least achieve a peaceful dialogue?

It’s sad to allow them to come into a “holy place” of our God – to pay homage to their gods.
In fact – it is wrong.

It doesn’t comprimise anyone’s beliefs to welcome people of other faiths for dialogue.

Of course it doesn’t – but dialogue is not “paying homage to other gods” in a place that is reserved for the Christian God.

AshleyBelle:
And the mere fact that people who don’t even know about Jesus and His mother still “felt” something powerful speaks volumes. God reveals Himself to our hearts in His own way. Maybe some of these people will leave Fatima, with a desire to “get to the bottom of it” as far as the “feeling” they got.

That’s true – maybe others also will get to the bottom of the “feelings” they’ve been getting from there too, perhaps it is not coming from a Christian source after all…maybe all along the source is more in line with what the other “god’s” have to offer and that’s why the Hindu rep stated that there’s no endangerment to them losing their faith?

AshleyBelle:
Maybe they will leave feeling like Christians are living up to the example Christ set for us.
To love one another.

Which we should all be able to do in our everyday life, by His Grace and love working in/through us.

AshleyBelle:
I guess I just don’t see what’s “sad” about this article.

Does not the opening line of this article itself raise any inclination of something just not being right to you AshleyBelle?

“ Delegates attending the Vatican and United Nations (UN) inspired annual interfaith congress “The Future of God”, held during October in Fátima, heard how the Shrine is to be developed into a centre where all the religions of the world will gather to pay homage to their various gods.”

The annual interfaith congress’ name “The Future of God” – is in itself the ultimate of human ego being put on display.

Not to mention that the shrine is to be developed into a centre where various gods are to be paid homage too?

And then near the end of the article there’s the pronouncement by Mon Guerra, stating that because the name ‘Fatima’ is a Muslim name and the name of Mohammed’s daughter “we must assume”……

“According to the Monsignor: “Therefore we must assume that it was the will of the Blessed Virgin Mary that this comes about this way.”

He must base a lot of confidence in the Congress as well as in his own “assumption” – because he then lambasts any Catholics who would disagree with him as being - "old fashioned, narrow minded, fanatic extremists and provocateurs."…where’s the evidence of “love” there??

To bring this back “on topic” to the thread – about the Pope and to whom the Apostles would point him……Mary or Jesus……

I can’t…… … it’s like Alice falling down the rabbit hole to “Wonderland” – it just keeps on getting “curiouser and curiouser….”

I think maybe ron77nyc is ‘having us on’….’joking around’ maybe!?!

 

[onenow1]

Yes – you seem to have this “thing” with regards to “Paul and Peter” ….???

Quote= onenow1. Indeed I do, because it is relative to the primacy of Peter which you reject.

2 Peter 3:
15 And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him,
16 speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures.

What of the other gospel recordings – not as imperative or even mentioned. (John/Mark)??

John 2: 1-6 Wedding feast at Cana. Do what He tells you !

. To the point of developing a “theology around her “, that detracts in some cases from Jesus Himself….

Quote= onenow1 Jesus Christ was the only person ever who was able to choose His own mother.

Mary, was the only one in scripture that God asks for consent from a person.

Now I ask that you show Scriptural authority which says we should not venerate her?

If you cannot find such a verse then you will have to admit that Catholics, are correct to venerate her.

If some catholics venerate Blessed Mary as a god, they indeed are in err, it is contrary to the teaching of the church.

Personal sin does not negate the auyhority of the Catholic Church.

Quote=Leeann while other “vicars of Christ”, in other denominations, have stuck to His gospel message and that of what the Apostles preached and taught.

=onenow1 Except most of them fail to call Mary blessed especially the last 500 years. Luke 1:48 for he has regarded the low estate of his handmaiden. For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed.=onenow1 And these are the words of the Lord !

And finally: Prayer of Pope to Mary: To Whom Would the Apostles have pointed him …Mary or Jesus? If Jesus is to be true man and true God, Mary must be preached by the Apostles, who knew her.

Peace,onenow1

 

[AshleyBelle]

Of course it doesn’t – but dialogue is not “paying homage to other gods” in a place that is reserved for the Christian God.

This, I can agree with to an extent..if it's a matter of having some sort of house of prayer, so that others feel hospitality and respect from Christians.....Now, if it was a church, and not just an aparition site, I might feel differently. I don't think this sort of behavior would be appropriate in a mass at.all...

That’s true – maybe others also will get to the bottom of the “feelings” they’ve been getting from there too, perhaps it is not coming from a Christian source after all…maybe all along the source is more in line with what the other “god’s” have to offer and that’s why the Hindu rep stated that there’s no endangerment to them losing their faith?

I don’t know about that… I think that where truth exists, it will affect people…whether they recognize the source of that truth or not In this case, they may have been feeling our blessed mother… Even though they have no way to recognize her.

As for “not coming form a Christian source…” I don’t know how feeling the mother of God wouldn’t be a Christian source… If they want to attribute it to something else…that doesn’t change what it really is. And in this case, I still think it’s one of those cases where God is speaking to you, and even though you don’t understand you still feel it

Which we should all be able to do in our everyday life, by His Grace and love working in/through us.

Does not the opening line of this article itself raise any inclination of something just not being right to you AshleyBelle?

Yes, I’m sorry… I just read the article, and not the title. I don’t like the title at all! But I do like the idea of a place where people can come and feel welcomed and respected for the faiths they hold dear.

“ Delegates attending the Vatican and United Nations (UN) inspired annual interfaith congress “The Future of God”, held during October in Fátima, heard how the Shrine is to be developed into a centre where all the religions of the world will gather to pay homage to their various gods.”

“The Future of God” is very over the top…And if something like this ever gets spread around to the point where Catholics are being taught a heresy, the church WILL speak out against it and clarify the nature of God This is why I love the church! We have the promise of the Holy Spirit that no man made ideas will ever change the truth handed to us by Christ!

The annual interfaith congress’ name “The Future of God” – is in itself the ultimate of human ego being put on display.

Not to mention that the shrine is to be developed into a centre where various gods are to be paid homage too?

And then near the end of the article there’s the pronouncement by Mon Guerra, stating that because the name ‘Fatima’ is a Muslim name and the name of Mohammed’s daughter “we must assume”……

That I think is just coincidence… Fatima is just the place where the apparition happened… It’s like saying that if I visit my Christian relatives in Japan, I’m promoting buddism.

“According to the Monsignor: “Therefore we must assume that it was the will of the Blessed Virgin Mary that this comes about this way.”

He must base a lot of confidence in the Congress as well as in his own “assumption” – because he then lambasts any Catholics who would disagree with him as being - "old fashioned, narrow minded, fanatic extremists and provocateurs."…where’s the evidence of “love” there??

Again… I don’t agree with this person’s opinion… But I do like the idea of ecumenism, dialogue and religious respect

To bring this back “on topic” to the thread – about the Pope and to whom the Apostles would point him……Mary or Jesus……

I can’t…… … it’s like Alice falling down the rabbit hole to “Wonderland” – it just keeps on getting “curiouser and curiouser….”

I think maybe ron77nyc is ‘having us on’….’joking around’ maybe!?!

I think the thread is going in a good direction:) You started with a question that has many, many layers. To say "Mary" would not satisfy you (or ME!) without truly understanding the why's, how's, and what about's that go with it:) And like we've talked about already..the heart of the matter is authority. We believe in the church that Christ founded Himself, and we believe that it still stands, militant and un-erred by the gift of the Holy Spirit to this day:)

 

[guanophore]

"Syro-Malabar Cardinal Vithayathil:

An antidote to the challenges facing the Church and society today is the glorification of Mary through the proclamation of a fifth Marian dogma, says Cardinal Varkey Vithayathil of the Syro-Malabar Catholic Church.

Major archbishop of the Syro-Malabar Archdiocese of Ernakulam-Angamaly, is one of the five cardinals who sent a letter in January inviting prelates worldwide to join them in petitioning Benedict XVI to declare a fifth Marian dogma they said would “proclaim the full Christian truth about Mary.”

"…includes the petition that asks the Pope to proclaim Mary as "the Spiritual Mother of All Humanity, the co-redemptrix with Jesus the redeemer, mediatrix of all graces with Jesus the one mediator, and advocate with Jesus Christ on behalf of the human race.

I realize that this seems extreme, but God created Eve to be the “mother of all humanity”, and Eve chose to disobey God, and break fellowship with Him. Mary was created to demonstrate to us what Woman was intended to be. This is why the gospel of John records Jesus constantly referring to His Blessed Mother as “Woman”.

Jesus is the One Mediator. He has been generous with His ministry,and allowed us to participate in it. The first example of this is Mary, where the angel comes to her, and she responds with humility and obedience. Later, during His preaching, when Mary was “blessed be” because she was His mother, Jesus notes 'blessed even more is the one who hears the Word of God, and obeys". She was twice blessed, because she bore Him, and because she was obedient. Her obedience was participation in His mediation, just as all of us can participate in mediating Him to the world by our obedience.

…the effect the proclamation of the dogma could have on interreligious and ecumenical dialogue, and the possible fruits he foresees could result.

Pope John Paul II has asserted that the Syro-Malabar Catholics were never formally separated from the Sea of St. Peter during the 20 centuries of their existence.

During the three centuries that the Latin Carmelite bishops from Europe ruled the Syro-Malabar Church, there was a deepening of devotion to Our Lady among the Syro-Malabars. Practically every member of the community wore the brown Carmelite scapular and recited the family rosary everyday.

Pope Pius XI gives as a reason for the flourishing of the community the singular devotion of the Syro-Malabar faithful toward the Blessed Virgin Mary (“Singularem erga Beatissimam Virginem Mariam pietatem”).

This is not surprising. Mary is eternally saying “do whatever He tells you”. Those who are devoted to Mary cannot go wrong so long as they follow her instruction. If they, like she, say to Him “let it be done to me according to Thy will” they will be in the center of His will always.

Q: Why do you think that the time is opportune for the declaration of a fifth Marian dogma?

Q: Do you think this Marian declaration would hurt the ecumenical cause for the Church?

Cardinal Vithayathil: Not only will the solemn definition never hurt the ecumenical movement, but it will positively enhance it. I feel that it is God’s will that we should honor Our Lady in a special way at this juncture of world history. Only good can come out of doing God’s will. We should follow prudence born out of faith and not merely worldly prudence.

Almighty God is the Lord of history and he can always overcome the effects of disunity caused by human weakness. The Hindu communities in India are extremely open to the concept of “Mother,” and they enthusiastically participate in the Marian devotions of the Catholic Church. The Orthodox Churches with whom we live together, already believe in this doctrine.

does this bother you?

Q: … do you believe a new Marian dogma would hurt East-West relations, or distance our relationship with the Orthodox Church?

I notice that you did not include the answer to this? Could it be because the Eastern Church shares Catholic beliefs on this point? In fact, I think that this is the best evidence that this doctrine does not emanate from the pagan roman pantheon. If it did, it would never have flourished and grown in parts of the world totally separated from the pagan roman cults.

Q: What fruits do you foresee for the Church and the world coming from a solemn definition of Mary’s spiritual motherhood in her roles as co-redemptrix, mediatrix of all graces and advocate?

Cardinal Vithayathil: I foresee many fruits for the Church and the world as a result of the solemn definition of this dogma. It will bring more peace built on justice in the world. It will give a new spurt to evangelization. It will bring about greater devotion to Mary and confidence in her intercessory power. It will make Catholics realize that just as Mary, through the merits of Jesus Christ, has become co-redemptrix, mediatrix of all graces and advocate for the whole human race, we too share in Mary’s threefold roles for the salvation of humankind.

I am curious to learn if you disagree with this.

The content of the proposed definition is clearly taught by the Fathers and doctors of the Church, such as St. Alphonsus Liguori in his work “Glories of Mary,” an infallible definition by the Pope will help deepen the confidence of the people of God in Mary’s role as co-redemptrix, mediatrix of all graces and advocate.

Does this bother you?

 

[guanophore]

Hi Mercygate. I’m just sitting here in my room with the love beads hanging in the doorway listening to my old Ravi Shankar records and watching the smoke rise up between the lampshade and the 60 watt bulb. It’s far out and way cool.

It is a relief to know that your misconceptions are a result of the residual effects of lysergic acid dietheylaldimide, and not some more insidious spiritual malefactor.

 

[Leeann]

**Originally Posted by Leeann **

Continuity of history……………and Scripture……………………. … … … … … … …and … … … … … … … …trust in Him.

AshleyBelle:
Leeann… I’m sorry to seem rude, but your “re-hashing” of what Mercygate posted is exactly what we feel so many protestants do with the Bible and especially church teaching.

I don’t think you’re being rude - you’re simply stating your opinion and that’s okay…I wasn’t clear in my posting…what I meant was how the “history” and “scripture” always seem to come “first” and then finally…the “trust in HIM”.

 

[AshleyBelle]

I don’t think you’re being rude - you’re simply stating your opinion and that’s okay…I wasn’t clear in my posting…what I meant was how the “history” and “scripture” always seem to come “first” and then finally…the “trust in HIM”.

That’s exacty what we do! And I agree completely!
We TRUST in Christ, and that means trusting in everything He promised. The Church was His promise to us! I trust in God, in Christ and in the Holy Spirit. It is because of the Catholic Church that I can have faith it is truly Christ I am trusting, and not a man-made interpretation of what Christ came to reveal

 

[Leeann]

=onenow1 Except most of them fail to call Mary blessed especially the last 500 years. Luke 1:48 for he has regarded the low estate of his handmaiden. For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed.=onenow1 And these are the words of the Lord !

And finally: Prayer of Pope to Mary: To Whom Would the Apostles have pointed him …Mary or Jesus? If Jesus is to be true man and true God, Mary must be preached by the Apostles, who knew her.

Peace,onenow1

And all generations do call her blessed…just not in the same way the Catholic Church teaches.

Where? Where in the gospel message that Jesus preached and taught and sent out His Apostles to preach and teach is Mary preached???

 

[AshleyBelle]

And all generations do call her blessed…just not in the same way the Catholic Church teaches.

Where? Where in the gospel message that Jesus preached and taught and sent out His Apostles to preach and teach is Mary preached???

The answer is one that I’m afraid cannot satisfy you because you do not believe the Catholic Church is the church Christ founded.

But the short answer (amid ALL these pages of LONG answers…) is that our beliefs about Mary are taught through the apostles.through the church.

Goodness…even the BIble is “preached” through the Church… It is because of the church and sacred tradition that we came to have the Bible But it is still the CHURCH which is the sole rule and authority on all matters of faith… “The Church is the Pillar and Bulwark of the Truth.” If the church teaches that Mary is the mother of all Christians, then I have faith in Christ’s promise. I have faith that it is truth… just as I have faith that the Bible is true

 

[Leeann]

**Leeann:**And all generations do call her blessed…just not in the same way the Catholic Church teaches.

Where? Where in the gospel message that Jesus preached and taught and sent out His Apostles to preach and teach is Mary preached???

AshleyBelle:
The answer is one that I’m afraid cannot satisfy you because you do not believe the Catholic Church is the church Christ founded.

But the short answer (amid ALL these pages of LONG answers…) is that our beliefs about Mary are taught through the apostles.through the church.

Goodness…even the BIble is “preached” through the Church… It is because of the church and sacred tradition that we came to have the Bible But it is still the CHURCH which is the sole rule and authority on all matters of faith… “The Church is the Pillar and Bulwark of the Truth.” If the church teaches that Mary is the mother of all Christians, then I have faith in Christ’s promise. I have faith that it is truth… just as I have faith that the Bible is true

Or could it be the answer cannot satisfy me, because it can’t be proven by the Catholic Church where Jesus or the Apostles ever taught or preached about Mary…at all….due to the fact that it’s ALL about JESUS?

It is because of GOD that any of us have the Bible….His plan…His Will……

It is Christ that is the sole rule and authority on ALL matters…above all principalities and powers….His Body of true and faithful believers is HIS Church….wherever they may worship.

If Christ or the Apostles taught that Mary was “the mother of all Christians”…then I would accept and believe it….if Christ or the Apostles taught that we should go to/through Mary in prayer in order to “get better service” or “to conjole Him into answering out prayers” ……then I would accept and believe it……if Christ or the Apostles taught that Mary and Jesus were inseparable and that Mary played(s) such a significant role in our salvation that without her “assent” we would all be lost forever……I would accept and believe it……but they didn’t ….these things were never preached or taught by them in their pure gospel message for the salvation of all mankind….as they aren’t “necessary”.

And that’s the “Truth”.

 

[onenow1]

Hi, Leeann

Question : Mary, was the only one in scripture that God asks for consent from a person and it happens to be Blessed Mary. What are your thoughts on this ?

Peace, onenow1

 

[Protestant101]

Her obedience was participation in His mediation, just as all of us can participate in mediating Him to the world by our obedience.

If Jesus is “The One Mediator” how can Mary be one too? Mary had nothing to do with “mediating Jesus” for he mediates Himself. Jesus doesn’t need Mary’s help; He never asked for it, he never commanded it. Mary is dead and can do nothing for anyone. “The dead know not anything.” (Eccl.9:5)