Praying to Mary doesn't feel right

[Cat_Herder]

All that to say, there is a common misconception between prayer and worship from the protestant crowd because they do not distinguish prayer from worship.

That misconception doesn’t help, but what it boils down to is that Protestants don’t realize that saying “I miss Granny, but I know that Granny is with Jesus now and that she watches over us” is the same thing as “St. Granny, pray for us.”

 

[po18guy]

This is a common concern among many of us who have considered becoming catholic. Prayer to Mary can be at times almost indistinguishable from worship in many ways. I think eventually, you just have to come to terms with it. if you place your faith in the Catholic church, you’ll just have to trust what she teaches i guess.

Well, you are correct in that you must give assent to the teachings of the Church. The problem is that the concept of the “communion of Saints” has changed drastically since the refomation.

Do you have a copy of Catholicism for Dummies? I can assure you that it will greatly help you.

 

[MS_SURVEYOR]

When humankind first sinned against our Creator, God immediately condemned the tempter, saying, “I will make you enemies of each other: you and the woman, your offspring and her offspring. It will crush your head.” [Genesis 3:15] Mary, whom Jesus made mother of all persons from the cross, [John 19:26-27] please, with the Angels, fight the ancient enemy in our lives, for sake of the redemption that your Son won for us.

"In the sixth month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee,to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.”
Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. But the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; you have found favor with God. You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.”“How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?”
The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be unable to conceive is in her sixth month. For no word from God will ever fail.”
“I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May your word to me be fulfilled.” Then the angel left her. (Luke 1: 26-38).

Think on that, really think on it. Who else in the Gospels is thus greeted by God in His Angel, with such great honor and respect, and chosen amongst billions of women throughout the ages for such a unique trust, a unique trust to be Mother of the Incarnate Son of God. God thereby tells us she is not a woman to treat light, to set aside as just another woman.

You were unselfish and kind. Although yourself pregnant, you hurried to assist your older cousin in her pregnancy as soon as Gabriel informed you of it. God rewarded your faith and love by allowing the Spirit to speak to through Elizabeth:
“Of all women you are the most blessed, and blessed is the fruit of your womb. Why should I be honoured by a visit from the mother of my Lord? For the moment that your greeting reached my ears, the child in my womb leapt for joy. Yes, blessed is she who believed that the promise made her by the Lord would be fulfilled.” [Luke 1:39-45]

In you, the Spirit responded,
“My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord
and my spirit exults in God my saviour;
because He has looked upon His lowly handmaid.
Yes, from this day forward all generations will call me blessed,
for the Almighty has done great things for me. Holy is His name,
and His mercy reaches from age to age for those who fear him.
He has shown the power of His arm, He has routed the proud of heart.
He has pulled down princes from their thrones and exalted the lowly.
The hungry He has filled with good things, the rich sent empty away.
He has come to the help of Israel his servant, mindful of His mercy
—according to the promises He made to our ancestors—
of His mercy to Abraham and to his descendants forever.” [Luke 1:46-79]

Thank You! I had the very same thing ready to post.

Prayers asking Mary to pray for me have changed my life. Mary has given me a straight path to Jesus. As God The Father choose Mary of all women to conceive his only son Jesus by virtue of the Holy Spirit should give one a clue. Mary never was, and will never just a woman. God The Father asked Mary, through the angel Gabriel if she would give birth to his only son, Jesus Christ. It takes a little time to reason this out. Elizabeth is with child, who happens to be John The Baptist, and God sent Gabriel to tell Elizabeth and Zechariah what was going to happen. But God through Gabriel ask Mary for consent. God himself Honored Mary right there.

God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee,to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.”
Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. But the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; you have found favor with God. You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.”“How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?”
The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be unable to conceive is in her sixth month. For no word from God will ever fail.”
“I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May your word to me be fulfilled.” Then the angel left her. (Luke 1: 26-38).

 

[eddadonkey]

“Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.” James 5:16

The Hail Mary is a perfect reflection of this passage. Do you all not notice that in the second half of the prayer you confess your sinfulness to Mary and ask her, the most righteous person besides Jesus in history, to pray for you?

Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of hour death, Amen.

Indeed, I am suspecting that the first part of the Hail Mary was made to give us confidence that the one we are petitioning to pray for us with each Hail Mary is, in fact, staggeringly righteous in the eyes of God.

It is also so with the Memorare, quoted by JRKH:

Remember, **O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to thy protection, implored thy help, or sought thine intercession was left unaided.** *[NOTE: I wonder if, again, this is a reminder not to the Virgin Mary but to **us* of how righteous this glorious Lady is.]

Inspired by this confidence, I fly unto thee, O Virgin of virgins, my mother; **to thee do I come, before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful.** O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in thy mercy hear and answer me.

How can the Hail Mary and the Memorare not be powerful in the light of this passage from Scripture?

 

[po18guy]

I think that the OP just has a problem understanding the communion of Saints. Might be just me, but I don’t think there is a problem so much with Mary’s role in salvation history, only with praying to someone whom the OP may think is dead. Once over that hurdle, most of the difficulty should pass.

 

[petitfleur]

Once you grasp the concept of the Communion of Saints, you will be far more comfortable with it. A popular book that will greatly help you to understand the Catholic faith is Catholicism for Dummies. It is easily read and understood. Highly recommended. I learn something each time I open it.

thank you everyone for your patient responses. It has helped a bit and will get Catholicism for Dummies. Like another poster mentioned it sometimes SEEMS like it crosses the line between asking her intercession and worshiping her. I am continuing with the novena anyway and perhaps my heart will be changed. I think some parts of faith are gifts from the Holy Spirit.

 

[JRKH]

This is a common concern among many of us who have considered becoming catholic. Prayer to Mary can be at times almost indistinguishable from worship in many ways. I think eventually, you just have to come to terms with it. if you place your faith in the Catholic church, you’ll just have to trust what she teaches i guess.

Indeed. We trust the Church teaches correctly even if we as individuals don’t always understand correctly.
This can occur in matters such as these. The Church is very clear on Mary’s relation and position within the Church. It is an important one and one that offers many helps and benefits.
That said, there are also many ways in which Mary can be honored and not every form of Marian devotion is equally comfortable to everyone. Mother Mary, being the wonderful mother that she is, understands this and would wish that nothing stand between us and Christ, to whom she points.
So - where one person might have a deep understanding, and draw and desire to Marion devotions, another might not.

I liken it to how children will be different in which parent the go to. Some are closer to Mom and others closer to Dad. Does either Parent become jealous? No - they Love their children and know that each is an individual and the interactions vary according to their personalities. It is not a sign of disrespect to one or the other.

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

Why?

Because the Catholic is asking Mary for something? So when you ask your mother to bring you something, you’re worshiping your mother? Come on.

Cat -
I beg you to remember that freerf was responding to a specifi prayer that I referenced in response to an earlier posting that said we pray “with” or “through” Mary.
The Prayer I posted, the Memorarie (sp)
Remember, O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to thy protection, implored thy help, or sought thine intercession was left unaided.

Inspired by this confidence, I fly unto thee, O Virgin of virgins, my mother; to thee do I come, before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in thy mercy hear and answer me.
This Prayer has no inkling of prayer to God through or with Mary. It is purely Marion and is prayer TO Mary.

freerf simply responded to me that this is indeed something that is troubling to protestants (and I admit it is uncomfortable to me as well).

But the entire exercise was in the narrow scope of whether we pray “To” saints or “through” saints to God.

So - now - Looking at your response, can you tell me what we are asking **from God **through Mary in the Memorarie (Sp)?

This is where the confusion can come in for Protestants as well as converts and reverts to the faith.
This is why I advise others that such prayer and such devotions are private matters and if someone is uncomfortable with it then they should not use it. Prayer should be comfortable and true to the heart so that nothing interferes with the efficacy of said prayer.

Peace
James

 

[lily20]

I don’t see anything wrong in asking a Saint to pray for you or someone you love (or don’t love!)

You aren’t making them God, you are asking for their help, to pray with you as a friend.
Also, you can just ask the Lord directly, that’s what I do.

In Christ,

~Lily

 

[petitfleur]

As the OP I never felt wrong asking for intercession, but like others said some of the Marion prayers seem worshipful as if Mary herself were answering prayers. I did not mean to offend anyone.

 

[Cat_Herder]

Cat -
I beg you to remember that freerf was responding to a specifi prayer that I referenced in response to an earlier posting that said we pray “with” or “through” Mary.

Let’s take the Memorare and make it a prayer to your earthly mother.

You are sitting on the porch of your house when you are around 15 years old. You’ve had a very hard day at school, you got a bad grade and you are worried that your dad will take it the wrong way. Your mother comes out and comforts you. So you say:

Mom, you remember that all my life, you have protected me and helped me. And you have always helped me. I’ve made some mistakes and I am very sorry for them. Please talk to my Dad for me.

This is basically any Hallmark greeting card. Why do some of you have a huge problem with this? Mary is your Mother!

The Prayer I posted, the Memorarie (sp)
Remember, O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to thy protection, implored thy help, or sought thine intercession was left unaided.

Inspired by this confidence, I fly unto thee, O Virgin of virgins, my mother; to thee do I come, before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in thy mercy hear and answer me.

This Prayer has no inkling of prayer to God through or with Mary. It is purely Marion and is prayer TO Mary.

The person praying it is obviously “[seeking] thine intercession,” of Mary, so I beg to differ.

freerf simply responded to me that this is indeed something that is troubling to protestants (and I admit it is uncomfortable to me as well).

It should not be. It’s in the Raccolta (p. 194), it was indulgenced by the Popes, and it has an imprimatur. If it was idolatrous do you think the bishops would have approved it? Why are you so afraid of it? Who is the author of fear?

 

[MS_SURVEYOR]

As the OP I never felt wrong asking for intercession, but like others said some of the Marion prayers seem worshipful as if Mary herself were answering prayers. I did not mean to offend anyone.

I don’t feel you offend anyone. Not me any way. You had questions. For the most part you got very good answers.

Mary’s relationship with God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and with her children, us, are almost hidden as were her days while on earth. She was there then. Mary is here now. As she obediently served God’s will then, she does now. Mary is the Queen Of Heaven And Earth, with a Legion of Angels waiting for her orders. Waiting for our prayers.

Good Luck! God Bless You!

 

[JRKH]

Cat -
Thank you for your kind response. A couple of notes

Let’s take the Memorare and make it a prayer to your earthly mother.

You are sitting on the porch of your house when you are around 15 years old. You’ve had a very hard day at school, you got a bad grade and you are worried that your dad will take it the wrong way. Your mother comes out and comforts you. So you say:

Mom, you remember that all my life, you have protected me and helped me. And you have always helped me. I’ve made some mistakes and I am very sorry for them. Please talk to my Dad for me.

This is basically any Hallmark greeting card. Why do some of you have a huge problem with this? Mary is your Mother!

If I was afraid of my father “taking it the wrong way” you might have a point, but I do not have any such fear of taking my troubles directly to my Father. So you see that - for me - I feel no need for me to ask my heavenly mother to talk to my heavenly father for me.
I have NO problem at all with Mary my mother. And Mary - so far as I know - has no problem with me. I love my mother Mary and she loves me. From that Love, I know that my mother Mary has absolutely no problem with my - or anyone else - praying directly to The Father.
So there is no problem.

The person praying it is obviously “[seeking] thine intercession,” of Mary, so I beg to differ.

Accepted - But still - for me personally - emphasize personally - I am not comfortable with this prayer. So I don’t use it.

It should not be. It’s in the Raccolta (p. 194), it was indulgenced by the Popes, and it has an imprimatur. If it was idolatrous do you think the bishops would have approved it? Why are you so afraid of it? Who is the author of fear?

Who is the author of fear?? Well I’m not sure but I know that the Bible says that Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom…
As to the prayer, I am not afraid of it. I do not consider it idolatrous. I’m fine with it being approved and indulgenced and all of that. I just am not comfortable with it. It does not fit in with the spirituality to which I am called.
Therefore I choose not to use it…
But you will note that I do not tell others not to use it.
Each is called to their own spirituality, their own journey, even within the Church and each must follow their journey.

So - I will respect the right of others to use approved prayers that they are comfortable with and ask others to grant me that same respect.

Fair enough??

Peace
James

 

[Cat_Herder]

If I was afraid of my father “taking it the wrong way” you might have a point, but I do not have any such fear of taking my troubles directly to my Father. So you see that - for me - I feel no need for me to ask my heavenly mother to talk to my heavenly father for me.
I have NO problem at all with Mary my mother. And Mary - so far as I know - has no problem with me. I love my mother Mary and she loves me. From that Love, I know that my mother Mary has absolutely no problem with my - or anyone else - praying directly to The Father.
So there is no problem.

That was my main concern there. Whew.

I just am not comfortable with it. It does not fit in with the spirituality to which I am called.
Therefore I choose not to use it…
But you will note that I do not tell others not to use it.
Each is called to their own spirituality, their own journey, even within the Church and each must follow their journey.

But do keep yourself open to it, don’t reject it, that’s all I ask.

 

[JRKH]

Originally Posted by JRKH View Post
If I was afraid of my father “taking it the wrong way” you might have a point, but I do not have any such fear of taking my troubles directly to my Father. So you see that - for me - I feel no need for me to ask my heavenly mother to talk to my heavenly father for me.
I have NO problem at all with Mary my mother. And Mary - so far as I know - has no problem with me. I love my mother Mary and she loves me. From that Love, I know that my mother Mary has absolutely no problem with my - or anyone else - praying directly to The Father.
So there is no problem.

That is the problem with assuming what layers call “facts not in evidence”. I have never - ever - in any post I have made here on CAF, said that I had any problem with our Lady. Yet anytime I make a post that is critical of some prayer or express the truth that praying or Mary and the Saints is largely optional and personal, someone assumes that I have a problem with Our Lady…The assume a fact not in evidence.

I just am not comfortable with it. It does not fit in with the spirituality to which I am called.
Therefore I choose not to use it…
But you will note that I do not tell others not to use it.
Each is called to their own spirituality, their own journey, even within the Church and each must follow their journey.

But do keep yourself open to it, don’t reject it, that’s all I ask.

Haven’t I been clear enough on this matter??
No I don’t reject it (the prayer). As I said above, I have no problem with the church approving it or with others using it. It simply does not fit me…

Peace
James

 

[Cat_Herder]

Haven’t I been clear enough on this matter??

You hadn’t, until now. Don’t take it personally. We are not in court. Remember that Catholic Answers archives these threads and that many lurkers in the future are going to see what you and I have written here. So it is vital that we do not minimize Our Lady for the sake of ecumenical dialogue, lest people draw bad conclusions from what we have written and surmise that, for example, the Marian dogmas are optional when they are not.

Peace.

 

[MS_SURVEYOR]

***O Jesus living in Mary:

Come and live in Thy servants,

In the spirit of Thy holiness,

In the fullness of Thy power,

In the perfection of Thy ways,

In the truth of Thy virtues,

In the fellowship of Thy mysteries,

Rule Thou over every adverse power,

In Thy Spirit, for the glory of the Father.***

 

[JRKH]

You hadn’t, until now. Don’t take it personally. We are not in court. Remember that Catholic Answers archives these threads and that many lurkers in the future are going to see what you and I have written here. So it is vital that we do not minimize Our Lady for the sake of ecumenical dialogue, lest people draw bad conclusions from what we have written and surmise that, for example, the Marian dogmas are optional when they are not.

Peace.

Thank you for you (name removed by moderator)ut.

I cannot be responsible for what others might “surmise” from what I post. I seek to be accurate and precise in my answers. As I’m sure you know, I have never stated or implied that Marian Dogma’s are optional.
If another draws a false conclusion or reads into (surmises) mt answer something that has not been stated, then that error is no their head and not on mine.

I’m sure that you will agree with this just as I would agree that if someone were to conclude from reading your posts that prayer to Mary was mandatory, (something you’ve never said), you would likewise feel that they have “read into” your answers something that you never stated.

I appreciate the need for accuracy more and more in these areas. I strive to provide that.

Peace
James

 

[randirhoades]

My Friend,

My Aunt says the same thing, but I found this.

The Bible says that he has helpers that participate in his ministry by his invitation. We believe he has invited Christians on both sides of heaven to do that.
When a saint enters into the joy of their Master, they are “put in charge of many things” (Mat 25:21)
Saints are serious prayer warriors. I don’t think that praying with the Saints detracts from the worship of God anymore than praying with friends detracts from worship of God, which I do a lot. Saints are not all knowing, but they know a heck of a lot more about this spiritual game than me. They are creatures. This does not take away the tremendous benefit we can get from communing with them. Catholics think “their intercession is their most exalted service to God’s plan. We can and should ask them to intercede for us and for the whole world” (Catechism 2683) I would also think this goes for Mother Mary who is the Mother of Our Lord, Jesus Christ and most Holy.

Love ya’ll,
Sheila

 

[EmeraldWings]

thank you everyone for your patient responses. It has helped a bit and will get Catholicism for Dummies. Like another poster mentioned it sometimes SEEMS like it crosses the line between asking her intercession and worshiping her. I am continuing with the novena anyway and perhaps my heart will be changed. I think some parts of faith are gifts from the Holy Spirit.

actually, there is a book on this very subject, you could buy it on www.tanbooks.com
or you can read it for free here - gaiaonline.com/guilds/viewtopic.php?t=15375783

i would also strongly recommend against getting “Catholicism for Dummies”, it contains various errors and is written in an often confusing manner that is misleading, instead i would recommend getting anything from that site i already listed(tanbooks) and also anything from here - fraternitypublications.com
but for a really good catechism, these are the ones i find most informative and accurate - tanbooks.benedictpress.com/index.php/page/shop:flypage/product_id/537
tanbooks.benedictpress.com/index.php/page/shop:flypage/product_id/371
tanbooks.benedictpress.com/index.php/page/shop:flypage/product_id/409

and really anything on that site is very good trustworthy catholic literature,
and here are a few audio sermon/talk sites you might like - audiosancto.org/
keepthefaith.org/
fultonsheen.com/Fulton-Sheen-MP3.cfm

when trying to live a life in imitation of Christ, we should look to those who succeeded in imitating His life so beautifully and perfectly, and those who did have said things like this regarding Our Lady -

‘When we have handled something fragrant, our hands perfume whatever they touch, let our prayers pass through the Blessed Virgin’s hands, and she will give them fragrance.’
St. Jean Marie Baptiste Vianney, the Cure of Ars

‘Mary being destined to negotiate peace between God and man, it was not proper that she should be an accomplice in the disobedience of Adam.’ St. Alphonsus Maria de Liguori

‘Woe to him who neglects to recommend himself to Mary, and thus closes the channel of grace!’
St. Alphonsus Maria de Liguori

‘I have no better way of knowing if a man is for God than if he likes to say the Hail Mary and the Rosary.’ St. Louis Marie de Montfort

i think one of the problems we have regarding this issue, is our misunderstanding of the word “worship”, worship comes from the word “worth-ship” which means to acknowledge someones worth, it is not strictly limited to “bowing down” or “adoring”, a child who offers a flower to her mother out of love for her, is in a sense offering worship, because she is acknowledging her worth, and in a similar way, when we applaud someone on stage or wherever, we acknowledge their worth then too,
but in regards to religion, there are two forms of worship, that of adoration, which is given to God alone, and that of veneration, which is given to the angels and saints…but to explain it better, i will just give you the definition of “worship” from a good catholic dictionary, which says alot of what i already said -
“Worship - Acknowledgment of another’s worth, dignity, or superior position. In religion, worship is given either to God, and then it is adoration, or to the angels and saints, and it is called veneration. Divine worship actually includes three principal acts, namely adoration (or the recognition of God’s infinite perfection), prayer or the asking for divine help, and sacrifice or the offering of something precious to God. Worship as veneration also has three principal forms, whereby the angels and saints are honored for their sanctity, asked to intercede before the divine Majesty, and imitated in their love and service of God.”

of course we would never say that we “worship” the angels and saints, because specifically speaking, we venerate them, but just for the sake of clarification i wanted to bring that up.

so i hope this helps, take care.