President Bush booed

[Fitz]

“Loyalty to the country, always. Loyalty to the government, when they deserve it.”

I’ve traveled outside of the US quite a bit but less than 10% of all Americans have ever left the country or even hold a passport. Quite frankly, repeating the “anti-American” mantra sounds like the repeat of some politician’s talking points.

This is sounding so familiar, like you posted under another name. Here goes my reply. My entire family has been to Europe, studied in Europe, has first cousins and aunts an uncles in Europe. We all have passports. My children have studied in England and I have a daughter in Spain now. Everyone in my family has a second language. So don’t call me sheltered!

I would never think of trashing on this forum the way some from other countries are allowed to do. I think it is liberalism at its very worst to allow this to happen. It is unchristian.

Steph, this is in response to your post. I love President Bush and his entire family. I like that he is our president. I think he is a Christian. So you can stick up for poorly behaved posters from other lands that don’t know how to behave in public butare unable to stick up for your own President? I have no respect for that.

We just buried our beloved Pope and I think we were talking about that. I think it was unchristian to boo anyone at a funeral. Imagine the incident if that had happened to Jordan’s leader? It would not have been Christian to boo anyone.

That being said, why do we have to not only listen to those poorly behaved Europeans, but also to you defending them because it is somehow OK to trash Americans because they don’t like our President? Steph, God Bless you for loving the world, but it should start at home.

 

[Binney]

I sat for 3+ hours on my lazyboy reclining couch and watched the Popes funeral on TV.

I doubt it was that comfortable for President Bush and many others that day for 3 + hours on folding chairs.
If you think President Bush went to the Popes funeral for political gain you are all sorely wrong. He had as much right to be there as a cardinal or even the Pope as laid in his coffin. WHO ARE YOU NEGATIVES OR BOO-ERS TO JUDGE? YOU ARE NOTHING BUT BOO-ERS AND NEGATIVES.

Where do any of you negatives (waa waa) come off putting the president or anyone down for being at the celebration of the Eucharist. CHURCH IS NO PLACE FOR BOO-ERS NOT NOW NOT EVER.

FURTHERMORE, I APPRECIATE RESTING ON MY LAZYBOY COUCH WITHOUT WORRY IN COUNTRY THAT IS SAFER THAN MANY OTHERS AROUND THE WORLD.
PEOPLE LIKE YOU NEGATIVES OBVIOUSLY DON’T APPRECIATE THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE PAID THE PRICE FOR THIS FREEDOM. TALK ABOUT SLAPPING THE HANDS THAT FEED YOU. UNGRATEFUL NEGATIVES. YOUR WORDS ARE SLIPPERY AND QUICK TO JUDGE AND NOT WORTH ANOTHER LETTER PRESSED FROM MY FINGERTIP.

 

[Exporter]

STEPH700

You wrote that you ALWAYS call John Paul II, JP II.

I noticed you call The President “Bush”. You asked if that was rude.

I say yes it is rude and you are rude.

You say you dont like The President. The traits you reveal make me say I dont like you or your Politics.

 

[gnjsdad]

WindyFire12:

Anyone have a link to this article? The orginal link doesn’t seem to work anymore.

The website for The American Conservative is

amconmag.com

I quoted from the April 25 issue, which I received in the mail yesterday. The Website currently has the April 11 issue. The new one should be up there in a few days, I would think.

 

[Thekla]

“like you posted under another name.” Huh? Please get over the fact that people throughout the world can hold two disparate thoughts in their heads at the same time; respect for America but not for our leadership.

This elevating of politicians is quite disturbing. And those who expect signs of religious faith from these politicians are just begging to be lied to.

 

[gnjsdad]

Thekla:

This elevating of politicians is quite disturbing. And those who expect signs of religious faith from these politicians are just begging to be lied to.

I don’t mind politicians acting on religious faith, but when people start elevating them to spiritual status, that is ominous. I hope we’re not seeing the beginnings of the Fuhrer principle at work here.

 

[Steph700]

STEPH700

You wrote that you ALWAYS call John Paul II, JP II.

I noticed you call The President “Bush”. You asked if that was rude.

I say yes it is rude and you are rude.

You say you dont like The President. The traits you reveal make me say I dont like you or your Politics.

But how in the world is it rude for me to call him Bush? I don’t understand. I call POPE John Paul II “JPII”… this isn’t out of disrespect, it’s just shortening it.

If you don’t like me b/c I don’t like the president… well that is unfortunate but that is your opinion and you’re entitled to it. I just wish someone would clarify to me how my calling him Bush is rude.

 

[Steph700]

Fitz:

Steph, this is in response to your post. I love President Bush and his entire family. I like that he is our president. I think he is a Christian. So you can stick up for poorly behaved posters from other lands that don’t know how to behave in public butare unable to stick up for your own President? I have no respect for that.

That being said, why do we have to not only listen to those poorly behaved Europeans, but also to you defending them because it is somehow OK to trash Americans because they don’t like our President? Steph, God Bless you for loving the world, but it should start at home.

There may have been some mis-communiation here. I most definitely do not think it was ok for people to boo the president. Not only is it incredibly rude, but it is disrespectful to JPII. So no, I am not defending that behavior.

However, no I do not like the president, I do not think he is a good example of a Christian. Also, I have not seen people here trashing America… no American would want to put up with that.

You are right, I do love the world, but I think you wrongly assume that I do not love “home”. I hope this clears things up…

 

[Steph700]

Well. Perhaps then, the author should have written it like this:

Subject: President Bush booed*

Quote:

Message: *Please only post here to show great remorse over the treatment of our Blessed… I mean, President Bush. If you support the most Holy… I mean President Bush, you are allowed to extoll his praise and credit him for leading us into a war with Iraq which is unjustified and unconnected with the attacks on 9-11, all in the name of money and power… I mean FREEDOM and LIBERTY. All political statements of the “right” perspective are allowed and encouraged!

If, however, you use this forum to express negative feelings toward him or his policies, as mentioned above, in response to right wing statements, please be prepared to be accused of bringing up “politics” inappropriately, of being called rude, or quite frankly, we will just make some below the belt generalizations about you being anti-American. We will also assume that if you have negative feelings toward the current administration that you should not only be asked to leave this forum, but also to move to another country so that we no longer have to hear any criticism and carry on in our world domination without distraction.
You have been warned.

Oh, and I also forgot to add that anyone who dislikes Bush will be termed “Boo-ers” and “Negatives!” by a designated, un-official, pro-Bush thread monitor, even if the individuals involved did not approve of the boo-ing of Bush at the funeral and even if the individuals involved are quite positive, enthusiastic people. :tsktsk:

 

[animalluvr77]

Lisa4Catholics:

Clinton had social issues in common and Bush had pro-life issues in common:ehh: Why do you find it scandalous?

I am really sorry, but I really, really have to correct you on this comment you have made and most people like to make about Bush! If he is so Prolife why is it that more prisoners have died while they were on death row when he was governor then at any other time in Texas? As a catholic shouldn’t this worry you about him? It does me! And doesn’t it worry you that PJPII didn’t think there was a need to go to war as soon as we did, yet our fearless leader took us in right away where thousands more innocent people are being killed and injured everyday! I am sorry, I know this was off topic, but I had to respond to this one comment! I just get so tired of everyone always pushing each others politics on other people saying how wonder the president is or classy his wife is etc. etc., but there is no such thing. All polititians are corrupted!! All we are doing is electing the better of the two evils! I think everyone needs to remember this when they get upset about people who bash Bush, but then turn around and then bash the democrats.

Bush was in another country, maybe they felt that what he did with the Iraq war was wrong because of how PJPII felt about going to war. Or maybe the media made this a much bigger issue than it really was! I mean the media is rather well known for doing that!! We can’t always believe what we hear sometimes!! :tsktsk:

 

[Adonis33]

animalluvr77:

I am really sorry, but I really, really have to correct you on this comment you have made and most people like to make about Bush! If he is so Prolife why is it that more prisoners have died while they were on death row when he was governor then at any other time in Texas? As a catholic shouldn’t this worry you about him? It does me! And doesn’t it worry you that PJPII didn’t think there was a need to go to war as soon as we did, yet our fearless leader took us in right away where thousands more innocent people are being killed and injured everyday! I am sorry, I know this was off topic, but I had to respond to this one comment! I just get so tired of everyone always pushing each others politics on other people saying how wonder the president is or classy his wife is etc. etc., but there is no such thing. All polititians are corrupted!! All we are doing is electing the better of the two evils! I think everyone needs to remember this when they get upset about people who bash Bush, but then turn around and then bash the democrats.

Bush was in another country, maybe they felt that what he did with the Iraq war was wrong because of how PJPII felt about going to war. Or maybe the media made this a much bigger issue than it really was! I mean the media is rather well known for doing that!! We can’t always believe what we hear sometimes!! :tsktsk:

Nothing could justify the booing of President Bush during the Popes funeral. Not because it was necessarily disrepectful of Pres. Bush - but that it was absolutely disrespectful to Pope JPII. It was his funeral - not a forum to exercise you political opinions. THey should have shown a little more decency.

You need to learn more about the Catholic teaching on the Death Penalty.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

animalluvr77:

I am really sorry, but I really, really have to correct you on this comment you have made and most people like to make about Bush! If he is so Prolife why is it that more prisoners have died while they were on death row when he was governor then at any other time in Texas? As a catholic shouldn’t this worry you about him? It does me! And doesn’t it worry you that PJPII didn’t think there was a need to go to war as soon as we did, yet our fearless leader took us in right away where thousands more innocent people are being killed and injured everyday! I am sorry, I know this was off topic, but I had to respond to this one comment! I just get so tired of everyone always pushing each others politics on other people saying how wonder the president is or classy his wife is etc. etc., but there is no such thing. All polititians are corrupted!! All we are doing is electing the better of the two evils! I think everyone needs to remember this when they get upset about people who bash Bush, but then turn around and then bash the democrats.

Bush was in another country, maybe they felt that what he did with the Iraq war was wrong because of how PJPII felt about going to war. Or maybe the media made this a much bigger issue than it really was! I mean the media is rather well known for doing that!! We can’t always believe what we hear sometimes!! :tsktsk:

All this was for me You really do not like Bush do you?It is still wrong to boo him at the POPES funeral

 

[animalluvr77]

Lisa4Catholics:

All this was for me You really do not like Bush do you?It is still wrong to boo him at the POPES funeral

I’m not really sure what you mean by that, but I just put what you wrote into quotes then responded and then added on to the response after I was done. And I understand that you shouldn’t be so disrespectful at a funeral for anyone! No matter how much you disagree with what someone attending has done or said! As for Bush, No, I do not like him! That is all the further I will go with that because like I said before I am newer to this board and I don’t think this thread was intended for this topic directly. But I will also add that up until about Bush’s first term if it weren’t for my husband I wouldn’t have ever voted a day in my life, ever!!! And I have to say that most Americans don’t even do that. That in it’s self was a big step! Just to have something to care about and now want to vote for something when I never thought there was a reason to do it at all! And I also have a hard time agreeing with any politician! I do not care for any of them. I think they are all crooked! You can’t trust any of them! And I have a hard time sometimes believing that our votes even count. I live in Ohio! (if that answers any questions) I wittnessed first hand some pretty shady things going on in this last election at the polls.

I don’t want to cause a hate thing here, so I will tell you something I did tell someone else, I thought it was a nice way for a Bush person and a Kerry person to come together in a positive way. Where I live (a very small town) John Kerry (also I will add cautiously that I voted for him and helped to campaign for him in my town, okay no comments please) came through and stopped while on his campaign tour at this little unknown family owned restauraunt next to my house. Of course the highway we are on was closed off everything. My husband and I were standing there next to this lady and I asked her if she was excited to be seeing him. She said that she was trying to get home but had to wait because she was blocked in. She didn’t like him she was voting for Bush. But I thought about it, and I told her that had it not been Kerry/Edwards, and it would have been Bush instead, I still would have been there because how could you pass up the opportunity to say someday that you actually got to meet the president of the United States. She told me that I was so right. I would have never ever booed at Bush had I been at the funeral that I do agree was out of place! But we are talking about people who from a different culture! And we need to remember not to judge them. I hope to make things better between anyone I may have gotten upset! I really only came to this forum wanting to look for a good Catholic message board to chat on with other Catholics who wouldn’t judge me for who I was or what I believed! And I will return the favor. God Bless!:yup:

 

[animalluvr77]

.

You need to learn more about the Catholic teaching on the Death Penalty.

Now I have talked to my priest about this because I do not believe in the death penalty at all for any reason! And I wanted to know how the church stood on this topic and he said that this is how they also stood too. And not to worry about my beliefs in it being wrong because they were the same as what the church teaches.:yup:

 

[gilliam]

animalluvr77:

.

Now I have talked to my priest about this because I do not believe in the death penalty at all for any reason! And I wanted to know how the church stood on this topic and he said that this is how they also stood too. And not to worry about my beliefs in it being wrong because they were the same as what the church teaches.

Your simplifying it too much. This is from the Catholic Catechism:

Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.

If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people’s safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person. Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity “are very rare, if not practically non-existent.”

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a5.htm#2267

 

[Fitz]

“like you posted under another name.” Huh? Please get over the fact that people throughout the world can hold two disparate thoughts in their heads at the same time; respect for America but not for our leadership.

This elevating of politicians is quite disturbing. And those who expect signs of religious faith from these politicians are just begging to be lied to.

I happen to know of a poster that did come back three times. If you hang around for a year you will see it too. It was more of a comment for the others that have also experienced this Bush bashing on the original Politics Forum. I am sorry if it upset you.

However I am not elevating politicians. I am deeply disturbed by our Democratic party due to the promotion of the death culture that they are intent on. That is fairly evident. However, getting back to politicians and faith. I will not vote Democrat again until they vote life. I think it is imperative that a politician have some faith. I won’t avoid voting for a good person if they aren’t Catholic, but I will listen to their language. Unfortunately our Catholic Senators don’t speak the right language now. They sell out in my opinion…

 

[Fitz]

Steph700:

There may have been some mis-communiation here. I most definitely do not think it was ok for people to boo the president. Not only is it incredibly rude, but it is disrespectful to JPII. So no, I am not defending that behavior.

However, no I do not like the president, I do not think he is a good example of a Christian. Also, I have not seen people here trashing America… no American would want to put up with that.

You are right, I do love the world, but I think you wrongly assume that I do not love “home”. I hope this clears things up…

OK Steph perhaps I felt lectured by you being the world traveler and that you were assuming the rest of us right wing peons don’t have a clue. I know I am being defensive, but it is one fault that I find with liberals that bugs me. They accept all things foreign over their own culture. It is not a good trait IMHO. We are a well traveled family with European ties and I love Europe. However, we are also a very patriotic military family that has given a lot to this country. I happen to like Bush’s leadership.

I will discuss respectfully with you anytime why I feel that way. I do think our President exhibits Christian attitudes, language and respectful behavior. I don’t think he is perfect. I like him more than his past two opponents.

 

[Matt25]

gilliam:

Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.

usccb.org/sdwp/national/criminal/stlouissmt.htm

A. Post-Synodal Apostolic Exhortation Ecclesia in America of the Holy Father John Paul II - January 1999

1. Nowadays, in America as elsewhere in the world, a model of society appears to be emerging in which the powerful predominate, setting aside and even eliminating the powerless: I am thinking here of unborn children, helpless victims of abortion; the elderly and incurably ill, subjected at times to euthanasia; and the many other people relegated to the margins of society by consumerism and materialism. Nor can I fail to mention the unnecessary recourse to the death penalty when other “bloodless means are sufficient to defend human lives against an aggressor and to protect public order and the safety of persons. Today, given the means at the State’s disposal to deal with crime and control those who commit it, without abandoning all hope of their redemption, the cases where it is absolutely necessary to do away with an offender ‘are now very rare, even non-existent practically’”. This model of society bears the stamp of the culture of death, and is therefore in opposition to the Gospel message. Faced with this distressing reality, the Church community intends to commit itself all the more to the defense of the culture of life.

B. Papal Mass, St. Louis, Missouri, January 27, 1999

The new evangelization calls for followers of Christ who are unconditionally pro-life: who will proclaim, celebrate and serve the Gospel of life in every situation. A sign of hope is the increasing recognition that the dignity of human life must never be taken away, even in the case of someone who has done great evil. Modern society has the means of protecting itself, without definitively denying criminals the chance to reform. I renew the appeal I made most recently at Christmas for a consensus to end the death penalty, which is both cruel and unnecessary.

D. Passages on the Death Penalty from Evangelium Vitae (The Gospel of Life), 1995

1. … Moreover, “legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for someone responsible for another’s life, the common good of the family or of the state.” Unfortunately, it happens that the need to render the aggressor incapable of causing harm sometimes involves taking his life. In this case, the fatal outcome is attributable to the aggressor whose action brought it about, even though he may not be morally responsible because of a lack of the use of reason.
2. This is the context in which to place the problem of the death penalty. On this matter there is a growing tendency, both in the church and in civil society, to demand that it be applied in a very limited way or even that it be abolished completely. The problem must be viewed in the context of a system of penal justice ever more in line with human dignity and thus, in the end, with God’s plan for man and society. The primary purpose of the punishment which society inflicts is “to redress the disorder caused by the offense.” Public authority must redress the violation of personal and social rights by imposing on the offender an adequate punishment for the crime, as a condition for the offender to regain the exercise of his or her freedom. In this way authority also fulfills the purpose of defending public order and ensuring people’s safety, while at the same time offering the offender an incentive and help to change his or her behavior and be rehabilitated.

It is clear that for these purposes to be achieved, the nature and extent of the punishment must be carefully evaluated and decided upon, and ought not go to the extreme of executing the offender except in cases of absolute necessity: In other words, when it would not be possible otherwise to defend society. Today however, as a result of steady improvements in the organization of the penal system, such cases are very rare if not practically nonexistent.

In any event, the principle set forth in the new Catechism of the Catholic Church remains valid: “If bloodless means are sufficient to defend human lives against an aggressor and to protect public order and the safety of persons, public authority must limit itself to such means, because they better correspond to the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.”

 

[MidnightSun02]

leonardoboff:

The attendance of the Bush delegation at the funeral was an insult to the memory of John Paul II.

And I am sure that Pope John Paul II felt quite the opposite, I assure you. President Bush had every right to be there, as well as the thousands and thousands of people who attended. Bush isn’t the only person in the world who sins for your information. I am quite sure that many of the leaders there didn’t exactly have perfect records. The Pope loves Bush as he loves you and me and everyone else in this world.

God Bless the Pope!

 

[Matt25]

usccb.org/sdwp/national/deathpenalty/compendium.shtml

The Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church by the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace at the Vatican Has This to Say About the Death Penalty:

http://www.usccb.org/sdwp/national/deathpenalty/images/solidline.gif

#405. The Church sees as a sign of hope “a growing public opposition to the death penalty, even when such a penalty is seen as a kind of ‘legitimate defense’ on the part of society. Modern society in fact has the means of effectively suppressing crime by rendering criminals harmless without definitively denying them the chance to reform.” 833 Whereas, presuming the full ascertainment of the identity and responsibility of the guilty party, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude the death penalty “when this is the only practicable way to defend the lives of human beings effectively against the aggressor.” 834 Bloodless methods of deterrence and punishment are preferred as “they better correspond to the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.” 835 The growing number of countries adopting provisions to abolish the death penalty or suspend its application is also proof of the fact that cases in which it is absolutely necessary to execute the offender “are very rare, if not practically non-existent.”836 The growing aversion of public opinion towards the death penalty and the various provisions aimed at abolishing it or suspending its application constitute visible manifestations of a heightened moral awareness.

833 John Paul ii, Encyclical Letter Evangelium Vitae, 27: AAS 87 (1995), 432
834 Catechism of the Catholic Church, 2267
835 ibid
836 John Paul ii, Encyclical Letter Evangelium Vitae, 56: AAS 87 (1995), 464; cf. also John Paul II, Message for the 2001 World Day of Peace, 19” AAS 93 (2001), 244 where recourse to the death penalty is described as “unnecessary.”