Presidential Debate 9/29/20 Discussion Thread

[Peeps]

I think Trump has had his success as a reality-TV producer/star. His “businessman” cred is pretty much shot, and he’s running the country like a reality TV show.

No, Pres. Trump has real-estate holdings, which are no doubt providing him and his family with income/benefits. Read his biography–he definitely started out in real-estate with his father. He is definitely not “old money” It’s all self-made. And be fair–Donald Trump was willing to hire minorities and women in leadership positions. I remember one story about his being the first to hire a woman to head up a major construction site in New York City–the woman was on TV talking about it (and praising Donald Trump).

My brother has 40 properties, and doesn’t really do a lot of work with them (although he is in court at least once a month because of some issue or other). He works as a welder and also farms. But those other “jobs” don’t negate his real-estate holdings and business. He just doesn’t concentrate on it right now, unless there is a problem that needs his attention.

I agree that Pres. Trump made a lot of money doing his reality TV show, which was actually OK. The people on the show worked to helped various charities. I only watched it a few times, and never in its entirety (better shows to watch), but I don’t think it was a “bad” show, definitely not in the same league as some of the reality shows where people had sex with all their co-stars and then trashed each other in their attempts to win whatever the “game” was. Trump’s show seemed to be about making good business decisions, running good PR campaigns for the product, and of course, helping out charities. I don’t see anything so bad about that. Just not something I would watch regularly.

Why do you say he’s running the country like a reality TV show? Can you explain, please, or give some examples. I really don’t watch reality TV shows (although I watched Big Brother during the first season because my husband and I were in high school with one of the contestants and we really liked him–everyone in town did!). I don’t have cable, so I can’t watch the many cooking shows. And I don’t really consider the “talent shows” as "reality shows–they’re like the old “Gong Show” or "Ted Mack Amateur Hour.

Thanks in advance for expounding.

 

[PaulinVA]

No, Pres. Trump has real-estate holdings, which are no doubt providing him and his family with income/benefits. Read his biography–he definitely started out in real-estate with his father. He is definitely not “old money” It’s all self-made.

If we read the NYT story, and other stories, we know he is such a good businessman that he has declared bankruptcy multiple times, has had many years where his loses were more than his revenue, owes hundreds of millions, has a string of failed licensing deals behind him (Trump vodka, steaks, Shuttle, etc).

Okay, I’ll give you that he is a “businessman”, just not a good businessman.

As to the reality TV part, he routinely fires people in the most obtuse way, he answers questions not as a policy leader but as a producer, “We’ll see. We’ll have to see what happens” in the same vein as a reality teaser. “Tune in next week to Trump’s West Wing. Will the Chief of Staff get fired?” “I’ll name my pick Saturday. Tune in”. “My ratings for that rally were the best ever”. “No one has ever had a crowd like that.”

 

[RidgeSprinter]

that was like watching an episode of jerry springer implode imo

I think Jerry Springer would have been more civil.

A comment: in the best interest of the audience ,which is worldwide , couldn’t the mic of the candidate whose turn to speak is be the only one on and have the other candidate’s off for that while?
As from now on and for all presidencial debates this and coming years?
Thank you.

That would cut down on the CHAOS.

Did any of these two show they were competent?

NOPE

Any Competent Adult 2020 !

ROFL

And they should be in a sound proof booth so you can’t hear the other interrupt.

A 10

Trump was rude and his statements were inaccurate. He rehashed conservative tropes.

Yes he did.

 

[YADA]

As was Biden’s inability to to condemn Antifa. Between the two groups - who regularly protest and counter protest- it is Antifa who causes the most harm to PDX.

These two groups Antifa and Patriot Prayer like to mix it up - shout and shove each other - they are like rival gangs… but unlike some gangs don’t use random killings as initiations - thankfully.

Antifa says they are fighting facism but of the two - they are the most like the brown shirts that matched in Germany. When they are not facing off with the Patriot Prayer group they have caused damage to public and private property, blocked traffic, assaulted people and law enforcement. This occurred years before this current excuse to riot.

Antifa is a far worse group … you may not care because you have not been personally harmed by their actions … But PDX is paying for turning a blind eye to this leftist thuggish organization.

 

[whatistrue]

Remember, he was in business all his life.

I saw an interesting take on the “how much did Trump pay in taxes” issue. It was stated as part of the live fact checking that the reason he doesn’t pay much is not that he is so good at using the tax code, but that his businesses lose more money than they make.

 

[whatistrue]

Biden avoided Chris Wallace’s question on whether or not he’d pack the Supreme Court plus others as well.

Did you happen to keep a list of the questions Trump dodged or simply ignored?

 

[Shakuhachi]

That was the most disturbing thing I have ever seen on TV. It was not a debate.
Trump should have been disqualified for not following agreed upon rules.
It was a disgrace for America.

 

[Peebo]

I’m so glad I relaxed and watched a movie last night rather than watch a couple petulant little schoolboys rant and rave at one another. And so it will be also be with the next “debate”, or should that be “debacle”.

 

[Nepperhan]

I am so disappointed that a sitting president of the US cannot condemn white racism. He used the ploy of demanding ‘which group’ and then still could not make his face criticize a racist group. So sad.

The Trump apologists will say ‘what about antifa’ and the rest, but the fact still stands. Once again at the penultimate time Trump has failed to condemn racism and deliver a message of unity.

 

[RhodesianSon]

That doesn’t contradict anything I said though.

 

[Nepperhan]

and she is willing to totally trash any human being who gets in her way.

For instance? You are speaking buzzwords.

Ms. Harris is a scholarly, accomplished woman, for all your talk of Pence’s gentlemanlyness. I think she has been able to maintain the common touch over a very varied background and experiences.

 

[RidgeSprinter]

This was an absolutely awful debate that did absolutely nothing to educate the public about the two candidates and what they would do if given four years to serve as president of the United States. It was, without question, the single worst debate I have ever watched in my two decades of watching them. That it happened even as more than 200,000 Americans have died from Covid-19 and projections suggest that number could double by January 1 made the un-seriousness of it all the more striking – and painful. It was, simply put, a deep disservice to democracy.

Remember that the President needs these debates to change the dynamic of the race. Because if he doesn’t, he is likely to lose (and lose badly) to Joe Biden. I saw absolutely nothing in a torturous 90 minutes that will change anything. Yes, Trump dominated the debate – but that was because he bullied, interrupted and cajoled both Biden and moderator Chris Wallace at every turn. Sure, that will hearten his strongest supporters. But do you really think they needed a debate performance like this to get excited to vote for him? The interruptions made the debate literally unwatchable.

 

[RidgeSprinter]

Debate rules : The two presidential campaigns spend months negotiating the rules to govern the debates – most notably that each candidate would have two minutes of uninterrupted time to answer each question before there was time for a more general conversation. That never happened. Not once. Instead, Trump interjected almost as soon as Biden began to speak. Wallace would then remind Trump that his campaign had agreed to these rules. Trump talked over him. A debate without rules isn’t a debate. Or, better put: A debate in which one of the candidates refuses to follow the rules isn’t a debate.

 

[RidgeSprinter]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/elec...l-debate-with-biden/ar-BB19y9tP?ocid=msedgntp

 

[ThinkingSapien]

That doesn’t contradict anything I said though.

Whether or not they are “fine” is a value judgement. The most inwill do on that is share information for consideration but leave the judgement as an individual consideration.

As for racists, I am conservative about applying that label, and you may find that I rarely if ever use the label here. One of the leaders of the proud boys was one of the organizers for the “unite the right” rally. The group is also known for anti-Muslim, anti-semitic, mysoginistic, anti-immigrant, and anti-African-American memes. Apply to that what ever label you wish

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Antifa is a far worse group … you may not care because you have not been personally harmed by their actions … But PDX is paying for turning a blind eye to this leftist thuggish organization.

That is not what Trump’s own Homeland Security says. They say the biggest domestic terrorism threat is from far-right extremist groups.

Here is a nice interactive map of what “Proud Boys” have been up to in the past few years. You can zoom the map and find incidents, some of which are innocent enough, and some are not so innocent.

By the way, my father was in an Antifa group in the 1940’s. They called it the U.S. Armed Forces.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

For those wondering if they can cut the Microphones to prevent interruptions:

While it is possible, for that to occur the debate commission would have to propose it, then both the Trump and Biden campaign would have to agree to it.

That makes it a technical possibility while remaining highly unlikely to occur.

 

[RhodesianSon]

That same leader who organized unite the right now endorses Biden so I don’t think we can use that as any indication either way.

 

[ProVobis]

It’s ironic that MSNBC, especially Joe Scarborough, attack Trump now the way they do, having initially propelled Trump to run for Presidency just a few years ago. Fox actually is a latecomer in all this.

 

[Victoria33]

As per Telemundo, it wasn’t a “poll“. It was one of those Twitter questions where one clicks the option they want.

If that isn’t a poll, what is it? Besides it being a poll, you submitted no evidence backing up your assertion.

That same leader who organized unite the right now endorses Biden so I don’t think we can use that as any indication either way.

Right, Richard Spencer if that is whom is being spoken of, endorsed Biden:

Richard Spencer Reiterates Support for Biden, Disavows 'Traitorous' GOP

Replying to a tweet Tuesday morning, Spencer wrote that he recognized how "ineffective, useless, and traitorous the GOP is," reaffirming his decision to vote for Biden in the November election.

www.newsweek.com

Also, yes, apparently, blacks and Hispanics are in the Proud Boys I understand.

Good one! And with a straight face, yet!

Enrique Tarrio: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know

Enrique Tarrio is the new leader and chairman of the Proud Boys, succeeding Gavin McInnes. Tarrio, a Cuban-American, denies the allegation that the group is white-supremacist.

heavy.com

Even his fan club at Fox & Friends knows he blew it:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/fox-friends-trashes-trump-blowing-114424371.html

Oh, Daily Beast, I will certainly listen to them. BTW, from what I read, their statements are being distorted.