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CRV
Guest
Why display them in the Church to begin with? Absolutely no need. Let them be displayed anywhere else - just never inside a Catholic Church.
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Aquinas11
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Exactly. Displaying Idols in Church without idolatrous intent is like displaying painting in art museum without artistic intent…why else would you display the painting at the art museum?
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jack63
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No doubt Pachamama is an idol. However, isn’t the goal to convince a person or a people to turn from their own idols?
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Vico
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It was presented by the presenter as Our Lady of the Amazon Nuestra Señora de la Amazonia, [con el huevo] de la Iglesia.
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CRV
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@Aquinas11 I understand your point.
Even if the intent was not to be idolatrous, it is my opinion that objectively the act of placing them within a Church that is on sacred ground/Holy ground - still equals idolatry.
After all we have statues of the BVM whom we venerate as well as other statues all within the Church building itself, yet this isn’t a Saint and as has been stated is not the BVM, therefore has no place being put within a Church - it is a pagan idol.
Even if the intent was not to be idolatrous, it is my opinion that objectively the act of placing them within a Church that is on sacred ground/Holy ground - still equals idolatry.
After all we have statues of the BVM whom we venerate as well as other statues all within the Church building itself, yet this isn’t a Saint and as has been stated is not the BVM, therefore has no place being put within a Church - it is a pagan idol.
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GiftofMercy
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It is scandal, regardless of intent. It is a huge scandal, and incredibly unwise.
The Pope as with anyone cannot know another intentions. My Pope can say that it was not his intention but My Pope cant say it was not everyones intentions.
And whomever thought this was a good idea, that prayer was a good idea, turning pews and backs to God in a church so they could encircle and pray with a p…mama statue, again not a good idea.
Sometimes it is for us, the hacks, the run of the mill meek, the poverty of spirit, the peacemakers, the charitable to be charitable and say in charity, this was not right, you have caused great scandal.
a prayer to a pagan deity is a prayer to a demon, because as we are told in the Bible, all gentile gods and idols are demons. The only true God is the God of the Jews, and of whom God incarnated Himself as Jesus.
The Pope as with anyone cannot know another intentions. My Pope can say that it was not his intention but My Pope cant say it was not everyones intentions.
And whomever thought this was a good idea, that prayer was a good idea, turning pews and backs to God in a church so they could encircle and pray with a p…mama statue, again not a good idea.
Sometimes it is for us, the hacks, the run of the mill meek, the poverty of spirit, the peacemakers, the charitable to be charitable and say in charity, this was not right, you have caused great scandal.
a prayer to a pagan deity is a prayer to a demon, because as we are told in the Bible, all gentile gods and idols are demons. The only true God is the God of the Jews, and of whom God incarnated Himself as Jesus.
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MiserereMeiDei
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The Orthodoxy of the Body of the Faithful during the Supremacy of Arianism Cdl. John Henry Newman
http://www.newmanreader.org/works/arians/note5.html
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Johann_du_Toit
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Whatever that means.
The Pope says it was pachamama.
And I recall somewhere along the way both confirmation and then denial that it was the Virgin Mary.
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Vico
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Our Lady of the Amazon is the Blessed Virgin Mary. Nuestra Señora de la Amazonia, con el huevo de la Iglesia translates to: Our Lady of the Amazon, with the egg of the Church. Other people can call it differently however the fact remains of what it is represents per the presenter.Vico:
Whatever that means.
The Pope says it was pachamama.
And I recall somewhere along the way both confirmation and then denial that it was the Virgin Mary.
Our Lady of the Amazon
As I said, there is both confirmation and denial on that piece of information.
The only certainty is what we know the Pope called it and what we can see of their ceremony.
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Vico
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It is important to avoid rash judgment.
Catechism
- of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor;
- of detraction who, without objectively valid reason, discloses another’s faults and failings to persons who did not know them;279
- of calumny who, by remarks contrary to the truth, harms the reputation of others and gives occasion for false judgments concerning them.
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on_the_hill
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Is there any office Catholic practice or service or ceremony that involves burning of effigies? Or was the priest making it up as he did it?
In my opinion, burning an effigy or an idol seems like a pagan act.
In my opinion, burning an effigy or an idol seems like a pagan act.
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Vico
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Are you accusing H.H. Pope Francis of idolatry? As he said there are no idolatrous intentions. That means it is not a symbol of a deity.
No.
It means he had no idolatrous intentions.
It does NOT mean that this was not a pagan idol.
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Vico
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It was not presented as a pagan idol.Vico:
No.
It means he had no idolatrous intentions.
It does NOT mean that this was not a pagan idol.
It IS a pagan idol.
They can present it as anything they wish.
That does not change what it is.
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Vico
Guest
It is what it was designed to be: not a idol.Vico:
It IS a pagan idol.
They can present it as anything they wish.
That does not change what it is.
1 Cor 10
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