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Rau
Guest
Who said there was no welcome?? How do you know - you were not there? What happened next? You don’t know.
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Frinders
Guest
There isn’t one. We were not told to have rules, we were told to welcome
and preach the Good News. Since then obstructive self important people
have said we make the rules. Thank God for our Pope.
Conider, Luther for a moment. What he said was later seen to be true, but,
what did we do, we started the reformation which then went really bad.
e.g., Luther said “Is means Is” but if you now ask a Lutheran whether the
eucharist is the Body and Blood of Christ they will tell you it represents
the Body and Blood. We have to stick to what Jesus said not try to make it
harder. If you want to argue about something, give a reason to make things
harder than Jesus did.
Frinders
and preach the Good News. Since then obstructive self important people
have said we make the rules. Thank God for our Pope.
Conider, Luther for a moment. What he said was later seen to be true, but,
what did we do, we started the reformation which then went really bad.
e.g., Luther said “Is means Is” but if you now ask a Lutheran whether the
eucharist is the Body and Blood of Christ they will tell you it represents
the Body and Blood. We have to stick to what Jesus said not try to make it
harder. If you want to argue about something, give a reason to make things
harder than Jesus did.
Frinders
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ConfusedLucy
Guest
Even very liberal religious will have some rules and core beliefs. I have my own worries about how I will meet the churches rules for my childs baptism so have no wish to judge but I can understand the need to at least try and ensure there will be an attempt to raise the child in the faith.
When I was a baby there weren’t many rules enforced and it meant a lot of us growing up with no sense of reverence and I wonder if it contributed to high drop out rates.
When I was a baby there weren’t many rules enforced and it meant a lot of us growing up with no sense of reverence and I wonder if it contributed to high drop out rates.
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pianistclare
Guest
Jesus also said “Go, and sin no more”.
That is likely what the priest said as well.
Get married, do the right thing.
If people are unwilling to amend their lives, then there is no point in appearing to "return "to the faith.
You keep saying what Jesus would have done. Surely Jesus would want this couple to desire faith, repentance, and to raise their child int he faith. It’s never about warmand fuzzy. That’s a happy by-product… but the be all end all.
Communion with Christ is the goal.
Look, everyone is welcome in the church. Everyone. Gentile or Jew, servant or free, remember? Big sinners and little sinners. All of us. You want this for your son, we get it. A mother does, of course. But there is more than you in this equation. You are not the one who has to raise the child or teach the child. Recall back…how much did you do to teach your chidlren the faith before you all fell away?
It’s harder now, yes, but the rules have always been the same. It’s only harder because they have left the faith.
This is something that THEY have to come to terms with. No one is persecuting your kids.
The rules, all the rules come from Christ. The church and her priests enforce them.
The rule is repentance. It was when Christ preached and it still is today.
Sacraments and a life in the Church are a happy result. Baptism is not an arbitrary rite of passage. It is a commitment.
I hope you will sit down with your “friendlier” priest and have this explained to you when you are less angry.
Make an appointment to speak to him.
peace.
That is likely what the priest said as well.
Get married, do the right thing.
If people are unwilling to amend their lives, then there is no point in appearing to "return "to the faith.
You keep saying what Jesus would have done. Surely Jesus would want this couple to desire faith, repentance, and to raise their child int he faith. It’s never about warmand fuzzy. That’s a happy by-product… but the be all end all.
Communion with Christ is the goal.
Look, everyone is welcome in the church. Everyone. Gentile or Jew, servant or free, remember? Big sinners and little sinners. All of us. You want this for your son, we get it. A mother does, of course. But there is more than you in this equation. You are not the one who has to raise the child or teach the child. Recall back…how much did you do to teach your chidlren the faith before you all fell away?
It’s harder now, yes, but the rules have always been the same. It’s only harder because they have left the faith.
This is something that THEY have to come to terms with. No one is persecuting your kids.
The rules, all the rules come from Christ. The church and her priests enforce them.
The rule is repentance. It was when Christ preached and it still is today.
Sacraments and a life in the Church are a happy result. Baptism is not an arbitrary rite of passage. It is a commitment.
I hope you will sit down with your “friendlier” priest and have this explained to you when you are less angry.
Make an appointment to speak to him.
peace.
A
Augustinian
Guest
The reaction of the parents is the key to speculating about what the priest may have said to them.
Its certainly true that no one really knows the priest’s demeanor during this interview, but the fact that the customers walked away not just dissatisfied but alienated is not good
People are reasonable, they understand there are rules, the challenge is to present the rules in a way that the people understand and will accept it cheerfully.
The priest didn’t win anything, it will be a long time if ever if he sees these young people again.
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Rau
Guest
Yes, he did not bring about remarkable about face. That’s all we know.
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pianistclare
Guest
I think we are assuming a lot to believe that this priest was rude.
Sometimes we parents want things on behalf of our kids when they are adults and capable of deciding things for themselves. They don’t always choose well.
It’s funny…many times people onCAF will complain that the priests aren’t “hard” enough. That they are too soft on believers, that they should stick to their guns. But when they do…everyone’s a pill.
Sometimes we parents want things on behalf of our kids when they are adults and capable of deciding things for themselves. They don’t always choose well.
It’s funny…many times people onCAF will complain that the priests aren’t “hard” enough. That they are too soft on believers, that they should stick to their guns. But when they do…everyone’s a pill.
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Roseeurekacross
Guest
Sometimes people have a hard time hearing No from a Priest.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
With all due respect, how do you know how the priest acted with this couple? Were you in the room with them when they were speaking to the priest? If not, you don’t know for sure what might have been said or how the priest presented it. You also don’t know for sure what the couple may have said to the priest. You’re getting one side of the story - the side of the couple who don’t seem to be very interested in returning to the Church.
Perhaps the priest could have been more welcoming, but on the other hand, perhaps this is a case of people who just want some exception to be made for them and are not interested in “following the rules” and get miffed when they are not treated like they are a special exception to the rules.
Perhaps the priest could have been more welcoming, but on the other hand, perhaps this is a case of people who just want some exception to be made for them and are not interested in “following the rules” and get miffed when they are not treated like they are a special exception to the rules.
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ConfusedLucy
Guest
Some people also consider anyone not telling them what they want to hear rude. It’s hard to talk to people like that without offending them.
Either way priests don’t always get this right.
Either way priests don’t always get this right.
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Reuben_J
Guest
From your post, the priest seems to be asking standard questions for a couple who want their child baptized.
Unfortunately that line of questions may push lapsed Catholics further away from the Church sometimes.
The Church has to make sure if a baby is baptized, it will be brought up in the Catholic faith by the parents. Otherwise if the priest is not satisfied that it is followed, then probably the child needs to wait until she is old enough for RCIA.
I think that’s pretty much the format but it can vary depending on the individual situation. You did a noble thing to bring your children back to the Church. I think from the priest’s point of view, it is important for the parents to practice before they baptize their baby.
Unfortunately that line of questions may push lapsed Catholics further away from the Church sometimes.
The Church has to make sure if a baby is baptized, it will be brought up in the Catholic faith by the parents. Otherwise if the priest is not satisfied that it is followed, then probably the child needs to wait until she is old enough for RCIA.
I think that’s pretty much the format but it can vary depending on the individual situation. You did a noble thing to bring your children back to the Church. I think from the priest’s point of view, it is important for the parents to practice before they baptize their baby.
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Lou2U
Guest
I don’t mean to sound harsh here, but (in the nicest way possible) I think the problem is more your own, OP.
I think the little nudge of niceness from the Priest helped to bring one of your children back into your faith. However, I think you’ve then taken that as a sign to say if only all your children were treated nicely by a Priest, they would also return. So now this has happened, you are blaming the Priest for his approach. I would suggest that instead of it being the Priest’s approach, it is your own hopes that have been dashed. Perhaps for one son it took a little nudge. That doesn’t mean it will be so simple or easy for your other children.
As an Agnostic on these boards since 2014, I have seen a number of posts like yours, from a parent who wants their children to come back to their faith. But as an Agnostic, I feel strongly that everyone has to make their own decisions at their own speed. It may not be what you want to hear, but as others have pointed out, it isn’t the Priest’s fault your child isn’t where you wish them to be in regards to faith. He has to make sure certain things are in order, and they aren’t. He isn’t picking on your child, or making up rules to exclude them. He’s just doing his job.
I think the little nudge of niceness from the Priest helped to bring one of your children back into your faith. However, I think you’ve then taken that as a sign to say if only all your children were treated nicely by a Priest, they would also return. So now this has happened, you are blaming the Priest for his approach. I would suggest that instead of it being the Priest’s approach, it is your own hopes that have been dashed. Perhaps for one son it took a little nudge. That doesn’t mean it will be so simple or easy for your other children.
As an Agnostic on these boards since 2014, I have seen a number of posts like yours, from a parent who wants their children to come back to their faith. But as an Agnostic, I feel strongly that everyone has to make their own decisions at their own speed. It may not be what you want to hear, but as others have pointed out, it isn’t the Priest’s fault your child isn’t where you wish them to be in regards to faith. He has to make sure certain things are in order, and they aren’t. He isn’t picking on your child, or making up rules to exclude them. He’s just doing his job.
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MtnDwellar
Guest
Sheldon Cooper: You can catch even more flies with manure; what’s your point?
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Xanthippe_Voorhees
Guest
Frinders…have you ever heard of the “burdan of Baptism”?
I saw this once play out and it was nearly the saddest thing I saw.
My co-worker and her husband were raised in the church. Both were active but fell away. They had a little boy. Got him baptized. Had another kid, life got busy and they fell away again. When their son was 7 he heard about Communion from his older cousin who attended Mass weekly. His mom thought the photos would be cute so she enrolled him in CCD and he made his First Communion.
And, of course, like always, his parents fell away. Despite a welcoming priest, despite everything, they fell away again. My co-worker just could not be bothered and her husband had a very seasonal job (tax preparer) and did not have the energy to bring his kids to mass Feb-June (late file). We worked in retail and our busy season was September-January.
That little boy cried to go to Mass. He so desired to go. He had a calling in his soul. He would promise to help his little brother or promise to do his homework or whatever…he just wanted to go to Mass.
His brother, not Baptized, did not ever understand.
It isn’t about flies and hone, or Good News or returning to Church. It’s about a priest who was looking out for a child who may have to endure spiritual suffering on a level that he or she didn’t deserve.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
That’s so sad. I do hope the boy was able to seek out a Mass when he became old enough to go on his own, and attend.
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Xanthippe_Voorhees
Guest
Not sure. His older cousin had pity on him (he was around 9 and her 16) and when she was old enough to drive would take him to a weekday Mass during the summer and they’d go get breakfast and then hang out as her “babysitting” him. He loved it. I lost contact after that because I switched jobs.
I pray for him often. He’d be about 16 himself now. I hope that he has continued to desire Mass and gets himself there.
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Augustinian
Guest
I don’t think its likely the priest was really “rude”, but he didn’t handle it right if the people walked away alienated.
If you talk to people the right way, you can tell them “no” and they walk away with a positive attitude.
I know that some people can be difficult, and perhaps these young parents were. But even with difficult people, you can usually still have a positive experience even when the answer is “no”. Not all the time, but most of the time. After all, there are a few people out there that are totally 100% unreasonable.
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1Lord1Faith
Guest
There is nothing wrong with being upset about this turn of events. It sounds like you feel partially responsible for this because they sought out the baptism at your request.
I think you just need to have a talk with your youngest about what the priest told them, and how to move forward one step at a time. A small measure of docility may be required here from your youngest. At least, that’s what the priest seems to be asking for, docility that is. I’m sure that that was something that your youngest was not expecting.
I think that they should schedule another meeting with the priest. If they really want to get their child baptized, then they should show some willingness to hear the priest out and make honest efforts towards reconciling differences. A reasonable move is for them to go see this priest one more time.
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ErraticFaith
Guest
The priest deserves the benefit of the doubt because it appears the case against him is steeped in bias and founded upon nothing of any worth at all.
People today take adherence to the faith as a joke. That’s why they lapsed. The burden of reconciliation lies with them.
Most likely the Priest stated his case from caution, as speculated by some already and wanted verification of commitment from the parents. Which is not outside of reason at all.
It’s bizarre that people have been left with this example of expectation with regard to ‘cuddly priests’.
They are of a serious vocation. With times to be warm - as well as serious.
The clergy have a difficult enough time of it as it is in current climate. Considering the lack of evidence beyond someone not getting what they wanted, I don’t really see the point.
No two people are the same. I’d have the common courtesy to consult the priest about it directly.
People today take adherence to the faith as a joke. That’s why they lapsed. The burden of reconciliation lies with them.
Most likely the Priest stated his case from caution, as speculated by some already and wanted verification of commitment from the parents. Which is not outside of reason at all.
It’s bizarre that people have been left with this example of expectation with regard to ‘cuddly priests’.
They are of a serious vocation. With times to be warm - as well as serious.
The clergy have a difficult enough time of it as it is in current climate. Considering the lack of evidence beyond someone not getting what they wanted, I don’t really see the point.
No two people are the same. I’d have the common courtesy to consult the priest about it directly.
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