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Cruciferi
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Augustinian
Guest
I think they already heard the priest’s talk, and they were told that they would have to satisfy the priest they were committed Catholics before he would baptize their child. Little point in visiting the priest again, unless they have something different to tell them.
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ConfusedLucy
Guest
I wonder if it’s worth going through the conversation with them, especially the parts they struggled with. Maybe ask them what baptism means to them as a starting point.
It seems there is a misconception.
The Holy Spirit inspired early church leaders in these matters.They are not restrictive rules, they guide the faithful to grow closer to Christ. They offer freedom to souls who are longing for a deeper relationship with Jesus and His Holy Church. By following what the church teaches, we are saying ‘yes’ to God.
Perhaps all of this has been framed as a negative or not clearly understood or explained.Once your son realizes these truths and the joy of living as the church teaches us to, he will return to the church fully and see how the church offers all these wonderful opportunities to him.
I would encourage him too to speak with his older sibling.A conversation with one priest should not deter him.
God Bless you.
and your son and child as he journeys home to the faith.
The Holy Spirit inspired early church leaders in these matters.They are not restrictive rules, they guide the faithful to grow closer to Christ. They offer freedom to souls who are longing for a deeper relationship with Jesus and His Holy Church. By following what the church teaches, we are saying ‘yes’ to God.
Perhaps all of this has been framed as a negative or not clearly understood or explained.Once your son realizes these truths and the joy of living as the church teaches us to, he will return to the church fully and see how the church offers all these wonderful opportunities to him.
I would encourage him too to speak with his older sibling.A conversation with one priest should not deter him.
God Bless you.
and your son and child as he journeys home to the faith.
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Tis_Bearself
Patron
So you’re saying, every time a priest has an encounter with people, and they walk away dissatisfied or “alienated”, then the priest did something wrong and is at fault.
With those kinds of expectations, is it any wonder young men aren’t rushing to become priests?
Sure, sometimes priests mess up. Sometimes they learn from their experience and get better, and sometimes they just aren’t “people persons” and if they’re lucky they can enlist the help of an assistant pastor or a deacon who is better at communicating.
But sometimes the “alienated” person is the one with the problem, not the priest. I see people on this very forum every day rejecting all kinds of good advice and being annoyed because they don’t like the answer they got about why they can’t do something or why what they posted is incorrect. It’s not a stretch to think that some people take the same attitude into their conversation with the priest.
Let’s at least assign the blame 50/50, because if people aren’t willing to look beyond one priest and focus on Jesus, it’s their fault too. It’s not solely the priest’s fault for not magically “winning them over”.
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Xanthippe_Voorhees
Guest
Not always.pianistclare:
I don’t think its likely the priest was really “rude”, but he didn’t handle it right if the people walked away alienated.
If you talk to people the right way, you can tell them “no” and they walk away with a positive attitude.
I know that some people can be difficult, and perhaps these young parents were. But even with difficult people, you can usually still have a positive experience even when the answer is “no”. Not all the time, but most of the time. After all, there are a few people out there that are totally 100% unreasonable.
I was in a Baptism class with 3 other couples. I was the only one pregnant–the rest had children 2mo-nearly a year and all admitted to taking their sweet time.
One couple wanted the wife’s severely handicapped non-verbal down’s brother to be Godfather and have another Godfather on the husband’s side. The priest was SO kind and patient. He explained the one Godparent of each gender. He explained that the sponsor must be able to comprehend what was going on (big question if he could). He even said the church would be happy to make the handicapped brother an official “Christian Witness”
Father even offered to have him sign documentation and list his function in the parish records (not normally done).
The wife was LIVID. She went on a tear about how the church hates handicapped people, is totally backward when it comes to people of the same gender and more.
Last I heard they went to protestant church where they got what they wanted. Father told us that it happened in probably 1 out of every 20 he was asked to do.
When it comes to kids and Baptism (or most “showy” sacraments for that matter)—people get a little crazy. Baptism is bad, but First Communion is insane. People freaking out because a 7yo got the Precious Blood on her $300 First Communion dress and demanding that the church pay for professional cleaning.
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Augustinian
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I worked in my life for many years in a job where people applied to receive public welfare benefits. Not everyone who makes the application is found eligible, and yes, sometimes people are unreasonable.
But the idea is to communicate with the people that they don’t have the right stuff to qualify (as a welfare recipient, for baptism for their children, whatever) and still be professional and leave the person satisfied that the result is the just one.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
It’s been my experience working with clients in my professions that sometimes people are not satisfied with their result, even if it was totally just under the circumstances and you made great efforts to explain to them in a nice way.
The thread in this case also indicates that it’s possible that the couple themselves were not that motivated to want to baptize the baby, much less jump through the required hoops to do so, and in addition to being lapsed Catholics don’t seem to be comporting with the church teachings on marriage either, and were motivated to meet with the priest because it would make one of their parents “happy”. Given that they don’t seem to be taking this step fully on their own accord, it suggests to me that any response from the priest other than “Sure! Can do! Let’s baptize your baby!” would not have been taken well, and that when reporting this to the parent who would be disappointed, it’s easier to blame the priest than take responsibility for the fact that they may not want to fulfill the requirements of being Catholic parents.
The thread in this case also indicates that it’s possible that the couple themselves were not that motivated to want to baptize the baby, much less jump through the required hoops to do so, and in addition to being lapsed Catholics don’t seem to be comporting with the church teachings on marriage either, and were motivated to meet with the priest because it would make one of their parents “happy”. Given that they don’t seem to be taking this step fully on their own accord, it suggests to me that any response from the priest other than “Sure! Can do! Let’s baptize your baby!” would not have been taken well, and that when reporting this to the parent who would be disappointed, it’s easier to blame the priest than take responsibility for the fact that they may not want to fulfill the requirements of being Catholic parents.
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Xanthippe_Voorhees
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Yeah. When it comes to higer stakes things people get wierd.
I worked in higher ed. There was no good way to say “so, you only got a C- in Differential equations and you needed a C to take the Advanced differential equations class so you will have to re-do your schedule and likely extend your time in college.”
Not being rude only goes so far in the face of really harsh reality.
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Augustinian
Guest
I think that’s a good motivation, trying to please parents is good.
Maybe the priest wasn’t clear to the parents how soon he would be able to get the children on the baptism schedule, and exactly what they had to do in the mean time. This is the information they wanted to know
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pianistclare
Guest
Yes, this is a good post.
Listen, I’ve been working directly with pastors all my life.
Most of them do not suffer people who are not serious. I can only think of ONE that would have chased after them and tries to coddle them into submission
I can list PLENTY who would have said take it or leave it.
I can think of 3 at least who WOULD have been downright rude.
The people came asking for something they were not willing “pay” for, meaning adhere to.
End of story.
If they truly desire to baptize the child, they will return.
People don’t value wht doesn’t have little value to them, right?
Listen, I’ve been working directly with pastors all my life.
Most of them do not suffer people who are not serious. I can only think of ONE that would have chased after them and tries to coddle them into submission
I can list PLENTY who would have said take it or leave it.
I can think of 3 at least who WOULD have been downright rude.
The people came asking for something they were not willing “pay” for, meaning adhere to.
End of story.
If they truly desire to baptize the child, they will return.
People don’t value wht doesn’t have little value to them, right?
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Yes, and maybe the couple were total jerks and got mad when the priest gently asked whether they had ever thought of being married, now that they have a child together. Or maybe they went in and said, “We don’t really want to do this, but Grandma wants it.”
None of us were in the room. We can assume all day what went on in there.
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BoomerangToo
Guest
I’m not judging. I’m merely re-stating the facts as you presented them. Any person who arrives at Mass after having been away for years should be warmly welcomed. But it sounds like your other son is expecting a sacrament from a church that he is not a part of. Any priest would refuse.
My own priest has refused marriages when one partner was not Catholic. My friend’s priest refused to baptize her grand daughter because no one in her family was a member of that parish.
You can’t just walk in to a Catholic Church and expect a sacrament like you are walking into a Walmart and buying a pack of light bulbs. Sorry. If that priest was rude to your son, he probably knew that your son and his girlfriend were not practicing Catholics and had no current intention to start.
My own priest has refused marriages when one partner was not Catholic. My friend’s priest refused to baptize her grand daughter because no one in her family was a member of that parish.
You can’t just walk in to a Catholic Church and expect a sacrament like you are walking into a Walmart and buying a pack of light bulbs. Sorry. If that priest was rude to your son, he probably knew that your son and his girlfriend were not practicing Catholics and had no current intention to start.
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RandomAlias
Guest
Continue your efforts to build faith in your children, and pray for them.
After reading the whole thread so far, I see that what appears to be an impasse may in fact be only a setback. I will assume for the sake of discussion that the priest gave your son and his girlfriend the moral equivalent of a cold slap in the face. Jesus was known to do that from time to time, as Saint Peter (and others) could tell you. Maybe that is what it takes to get them to rethink how they conduct their lives and get moving again on their faith journeys. It ain’t over yet.
So, as I said, keep working on it, and pray for your children and their loved ones.
Let us all pray. May the Holy Spirit touch the hearts of your children and their families, and lead each one always toward greater faith, hope, and love.
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Augustinian
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Even if they were totally ignorant of their faith, I don’t think its a closely held secret that the church doesn’t approve of sexual relations outside of marriage. These parents would be showing a lot of ignorance if they took umbrage at such a remark by a cleric.
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Rau
Guest
I could imagine some parents thinking that Baptism was a 10 min ceremony, with time for photos, and their obligations with respect to it largely ended with the ceremony.
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Xanthippe_Voorhees
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YESAugustinian:
I could imagine some parents thinking that Baptism was a 10 min ceremony, with time for photos, and their obligations with respect to it largely ended with the ceremony.
THIS
Rau you could not be more right! Why did the other 3 couples we did Baptism class with wait until after their children were born? Because they wanted cuter pictures when their kid could smile.
They didn’t care to get their child baptized ASAP as the church teaches. They wanted cute pictures.
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Rau
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Can you tell me - what is this? What is involved?
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Xanthippe_Voorhees
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Mine was LAME LAME LAME.Xanthippe_Voorhees:
Can you tell me - what is this? What is involved?
It was about 45 minutes (could of been 10) where Father outlined, “What is Baptism?” “What is a sponsor” and so forth. The most BASIC stuff you can imagine. The other couples had NO Idea what he was talking about so he let GAVE them the answer sheets so they could take them home. (he’d made them after years of dealing with the same old same old).
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ConfusedLucy
Guest
I didn’t think you could start baptism prep until after the baby was born
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