Prophesey and speaking in tounges

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We have no record that Peter asked for this gift. He was chosen. I have been to the charismatic meetings. They stress gifts. It is what makes their world go round. They seek them. The humble say, God do with me what you will. They do not ask to be made great. Those who are made great are chosen. They are drafted. They may make themselves disposed to grace and service, but thy also shun accolades.
You sound very bitter and very angry. I want to be a brother though we can have differences.

I did not say, if that’s what you think, that Peter asked for the gift. In fact my statement alluded to the fact that charismatic gift is given at the pleasure of God. We don’t earn it nor we can deserve it by any of our actions. It’s God’s discretion. That’s why it comes with big responsibility - it means to serve. My experience is that not everyone wants this gift. We ask leaders to preach, teach, lead prayers or leading outreaches, most would rather not take up the duty if there are others who are more gifted. It’s not for personally glory and surely it must be exercised properly.

You are saying they were doing this and that. Surely if you are reasonable you cannot lump everybody to be the same. Okay, I acknowledge what you experienced. I do not condon abuse. I hope I make that clear.

What I was saying charismatic gifts are Biblical, whether you agree or not. Discernment is a gift. Surely the Synod of Bishops execised the gift of discernment when they are given a duty by the Pope to arrive at some important decisions. Why the gift? Because God empowers them to upbuild His church. That empowerment spills down even to your local parish on people put by God there to build that local church. The empowerment even goes down to the domestic church - the family. But gifts are given not asked.
It seems evident from the prophesies that fly around these meetings like popping popcorn that there are a lot more prophets than discerners. If you say that there needs to be discernment to figure out what is from God and what is not, then you are agreeing that some of these thousands of prophesies that are happening in thousands of pentacostal/charismatic meetings are not of God. What are the consequences to claing you are speaking for God and that being false? Did you ever utter one of these so called prophesies? Have you done it more than once? Did the things you prophesied come to pass? I have seen this happen and the opposite come to pass. Even so, they continue the act unfazed. They are undeterred and keep at it. Doesn’t anyone see this is crazy, truly crazy, and why?
The language you use.

Yes, most of the so-called prophecies are actually not prophecy at all.

There are many type of prophecies. Some are just encouraging while very few if there is ever, directive prophecy. Directive prophecy all the more needs careful discernment. Do they have a team of people who discerned in the meeting you attend? It should have.

The gift of prophecy is not foretelling. Very seldom that would be. And whether to know a foretelling prophecy is true or not, only time will tell whether it comes to pass. I have not heard of any foretellling prophecy in a local context, though you cannot rule out that it does not happen.

I suppose in a prayer meeting situation most prophecies would be in the category of exhortation and encouragement. So what’s wrong with that if it can encourage people?
I believe in miracles. I believe in prophesy. I do not believe they happen wholesale by the boatload as is claimed by the excitable people who stir themselves up at these meetings taking place all over the country. I do not need to explore this. I need to make myself available to God and whatever he wills for me and repent of my sins and love Him by obeying Him. We need to be sober minded.
Again your language. What can I say? Most probably what I have said must have touched a nerve and if they make you angry, I apologize, because that was not my intention at all.

Peace and may God bless you.
This is nonsense. There is no evidence that miracles disappeared and did not happen. The lives of the saints are replete with them, not only in the Christian age, but earlier with the Jews. St. Augustine may have been surprised, but that does not provide a shred of prove that throughout Christendom which extended all across North Africa, the Middle East, Asia and Europe there were no supernatural phenomenon occurring in the lives of thousands of Christians. To claim that they reappeared with the advent of the charismatic movement is ignorance. There were miracles and great mystics, like St. Padre Pio, throughout the Christian age. The charismatics I know act like they discovered a lost treasure. The difference with them is they think every Tom, **** and Harry is a prophet and healer. The evidence I have seen disproves this. There are lots of claims and little substance. I have seen many times people claim a “word of knowledge” that something was going to happen. One very nice lady, God bless her, told me that I had a word of knowledge in something I said to her. I am telling you that I had no such thing.
I did not claim they appear with the advent of Charismatic movement.

Perhaps it does us a lot more good if there is less hate and judgment and more love here.

Bye.
 
Message from the Spiritual world through Ingo Swann:
Very important information, take it whatever…

Anyone who mentally ventures beyond earthly spheres will also be influenced by forces of the beyond, for he is constantly surrounded by such forces. But this influence is of a spiritual nature, because contact between this world and the world of the beyond gets established through the human being’s will. However, you humans must differentiate between establishing contact with Me through prayer… and contact with the spiritual world due to your will to gain knowledge from these spiritual powers, thus opening yourselves up to the influence of this spiritual world. No such established contact will remain unused, irrespective of whether I Myself or spiritual forces react to it, because the initiated connections from earth to the spiritual world are extremely important for the development of the human being’s soul. For the effectively spiritually blind human being shall acquire spiritual vision, and his spiritual eyes can only be opened through an inflow of light which either flows to the human being from Me directly or also through the spiritual beings of light. Hence, any link from earth to the spiritual world is welcomed by the beings of light, who are aware of peoples’ state of darkness on earth and would very gladly like to give them light in accordance with My will…. However, they are governed by My will to give what is beneficial for people. And My will also stops them where too bright a light might damage a person by dazzling his eyes and rendering him incapable of perception.

My adversary, however, uses deceptive lights precisely because he wants to impair people’s vision, because he wants people’s eyes become entirely incapable of recognising the soft light coming from Me, which has a beneficial effect and brightly and clearly shows the right path to Me. Therefore he endeavours to let as many deceptive lights shine as possible in order to confuse people…. He endeavours to lead people into a direction where they apparently can gain information, where the human being believes to get hold of knowledge and yet receives completely misleading spiritual values…. My adversary has many such means which he uses to cause ever greater mental confusion in people. He often ignites such glaring deceptive lights that people will be engulfed by darkest night if they have looked into this light for a long time, since it will not provide them with permanent enlightenment but suddenly return them into total darkness again. And countless dark forces are supporting him by participating and appearing as supposed beings of light…. by prompting people to establish the above mentioned links with the spiritual world by way of improper thought transferences which either flatter people or promise them advantages, so that they will follow these thoughts and thus enter a region which is governed by dark powers. Just the intention of wanting to acquire knowledge without turning to the right source can lure people into a dangerous region from which they can only save themselves again with great difficulty…. The will to step out of the ordinary, to experience the extraordinary and wanting to excel with exceptional knowledge leads people into this dangerous position where dark forces overpower him and thus dazzle his vision.

And in view of the end there is an increased risk, for the universe is full of poison-spitting spirits which are loyal vassals to My adversary in order to corrupt people. His influence is powerful because the human being does not resist him, but he could become master over him by just entrusting himself to Me Myself in Jesus Christ, Who had defeated him through My crucifixion. But instead of calling upon Me the human being calls upon other powers in the universe, and he will indeed be heard by these powers and helped…. frequently in a way which brings ever greater darkness instead of brightness. He moves increasingly further away from the truth, he allows himself to be captivated by delusions, by illusions brought into being by My adversary…. He offers immature spirits the opportunity to express themselves and accepts their information as pure truth… He is most dreadfully deceived by My adversary and always believes himself to be enlightened…. But he will not accept the truth which consists of the fact that My Word cannot fade away, that it will come to pass and that My Word has announced an end ever since the beginning of this era…. And this end will come and no one will be able to stop it…. And anyone seeking protection will only find it with Me, yet a person will call for help in vain if he turns to powers which promise him protection but are unable to provide it…. For these powers only aim to corrupt you, to withhold the truth from you and not to let you find the light…. And if you listen to them you will then also go astray and remain in their power for an infinitely long time…. Amen
 
On 15 February 1994, Kenyan nun Sister Anna Hadija Ali, held a press conference in Rome and spoke about her experience of meetings every Thursday since 1987 with Jesus Christ. Two photographs she had taken of Jesus in 1987 and 1988 were displayed at the conference
Hi

I checked with the wikipedia. The incident of seeing Jesus or Mary does not seem to be included in the list of the Catholic Church:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marian_apparition
Date Location To whom Reference
1980 Wu Fung Chi, Taiwan, China
To nine Buddhists Our Lady of China
1980 * San Francisco de Cuapa, Nicaragua
Bernado Martinez The Virgin of Cuapa
1981 to present Međugorje, Bosnia and Herzegovina
To six teenagers Our Lady of Medjugorje (or Queen of Peace)
1982 to 1988 * Kibeho, Rwanda
To seven adolescents Our Lady of Sorrows
1983 to 1990 San Nicolás, Argentina
Gladys Quiroga de Motta Our Lady of the Rosary of San Nicolás
1985 to present Surbiton, UK
To Patricia de Menezes Our Lady of Surbiton
1986 to 1988 Belpasso, Italy
Rosario Toscano, a boy of fifteen years Our Lady of Belpasso
1987 Hrushiv, Ukraine St. Louis, MO
Josyp Terelya, Maria Kizyn Brandon Taylor and thousands of others
1989 - 1999 Kurescek, Slovenia
Father Smaverski Queen of Peace
1990 – 1995 * Litmanová, Slovakia
Katka Ceselkova and Ivetka Korcakova Our Lady of Immaculate Purity
1994 - 2000 Cebu City, Philippines
Dominic S Falar Visions and Locutions Concerning the Third Secret of Fatima The True Third Secret of Our Lady of Fatima
1996 to present Clearwater, Florida, U.S.
To countless people
1996 - 2004 Vitória da Conquista, Bahia, Brazil
Apparitions of Our Lady, of Our Lord Jesus Christ, St. Michael the Archangel, St. Gabriel the Archangel, and three messages from God the Father, to Fabiana Oliveira. Nossa Senhora Mãe e Rainha das Famílias (Our Lady, Mother & Queen of Families)
2000 – 2001 Assiut, Egypt
To millions of people, approved by Coptic Orthodox Church Our Lady of Assiut
November 2004 Accra, Ghana
[2]
1998 to present Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Apparitions to a Montreal Carmelite lay sister. [3]
1998 to present Santa Fe, New Mexico, U.S.
Apparitions received by local mystic and visionary revealing prophetic messages relating to global events and end times [4]
1997 to present Platina, Brazil
Apparitions received by Francisco Ovídio da Silva [5]
[6] (both sites in Portuguese)
1987 to present Anguera, Brazil
Apparitions received by Pedro Régis Our Lady of Anguera
2001 to present Hilversum, The Netherlands
Apparitions of Mary and Jesus to Agatha Molki, a Catholic woman. Private and public revelations.
2001 to present Kodungaiyur, Chennai, India
Ms. Rosalind, Mr. P. Alexander Our Lady of Jecintho
Any idea as to why it has been missed.

Thanks
 
Many apparitions are not accepted by the Catholic Church…even the visitations to the 6 visionaries in Medujugorje which is observed and witnessed by thousands,also recorded and video taped by people of all denominations…this has been going on regularly for 25 years…with the presence of priests…

Gianna Sullivan in Emmitsburg, Md has visitiations for 20 years witnessed by priests and thousands, and on tape…the church locked the doors so they would meet somewhere else. Holy Mother said they were being blocked by the darkside.

What you have posted is a very small observation compared to what is out there.
 
Many apparitions are not accepted by the Catholic Church…even the visitations to the 6 visionaries in Medujugorje which is observed and witnessed by thousands,also recorded and video taped by people of all denominations…this has been going on regularly for 25 years…with the presence of priests…

Priests from all over the world are attending these sessions and starting to receive visitations from Mary because of their interest…Sooner or later Mother Mary will have the church so infiltrated; the church will not be able to deny her, and her visits. She heals the masses, she brings life, truth and the Holy Spirit with her.

John Paul II said before he died that he would go to Medjujorge to witness if he were not Pope.

I believe Her plan is to infiltrate, to be accepted; and not be denied.

I believe she visited me because she knows I will spread the word about her and her son. , whichever way I can…
 


There were miracles and great mystics, like St. Padre Pio, throughout the Christian age.
You have just proven what I said that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are for all times and not just to start the church after the day of Pentecost. The early Christians exercised these gifts and the church gradually was established. But when there was stability in the church the gifts slowly dwindled until St. Augustine who by then was a Bishop discovered them accidentally, and realized that the gifts are for all times. I will be with you always till the end of time said the Lord. He was the same yesterday, today and forever will be. Thus between St. Augustine and today the gifts are alive and well.

Of course the twentieth century saw an upsurge in the manifestation of the gifts. They are there for a purpose. If we look today, the West is almost an apostasy nation. Only a handful accepts the call to priestly and religious vocation. By your nick, I suppose you are old enough to remember when our seminaries were brimming with aspirant priests. But look at today scenario – dearth of priesthood. But what happened? The rising of the laity. You would not imagine that lay people would proclaim the word of God pre-Vatican two. But now, it is very common in parishes where the lay people contribute to the growth of the church.

Mother Teresa called the Charismatic Renewal as the second visitation of Jesus. The first being the Epiphany. The late Pope John Paul 2 in his address to the Renewal movements said the renewal is the chance for the church, as if to say that Christians must take up this chance so that the church will be saved. Maybe you have not heard these sayings but it does no harm to hear them from fellow Catholics. BTW FYI the charismatic movement is recognized by the Vatican and it has its head office in Rome, the ICCRS. I think it is uncharitable to run down a recognized movement within the church, for we are all brothers and sisters in the Lord.

Thus the gifts are not just for Fr. Pio, John Paul 2 or Fr. Tardiff but for anyone that God wants to give, “distributing them individually to each person as He wishes”.

Not all have the same gift but each gift is for the upbuilding of the body of Christ, the church. “We have many parts in the one body, and all these parts have different functions … So we are to use our different gifts in accordance with the grace that God has given us …”. Rom 12:4,6.

St Paul mentioned explicitly the gifts in 1 Cor 12 “There are different kinds of spiritual gifts but the same Spirit; there are different forms of service but the same Lord; there are different workings but the same God who produces all of them in everyone. To each individual the manifestation of the Spirit is given for some benefit. …

The charismatic gifts mentioned are:
  • Wisdom
  • Knowledge
  • Faith
  • Healing
  • Miracle
  • Prophecy
  • Discernment (of the spirit)
  • Tongues
  • Interpretation of tongues.
These are by no means the only one. St. Paul also mentioned speaking God’s message, teaching, encouraging others, giving generously, authority, and showing kindness. Rom 12: 3-8.

We are told also not to despise inspired message (prophecy) or restrain the Holy Spirit, but to put all things to the test: keep what is good and avoid every kind of evil. 1 Thes 5:19-21.

I have personally witnessed to a terminally ill lady suffering from liver disease healed as a result of God’s intervention. She was asked to discharge from the state hospital after the specialists found her liver was all gone through medical tests. She was incapacitated and confined to hospital bed waiting for her death. She was brought to a prayer meeting on a wheelchair and a prophecy was proclaimed that God said it was favourable time for her. Needless to say she began to eat well and the next test result showed that her liver was normal. The doctors were flabbergasted and said only a miracle could do this. Now she is a happy mother of four beautiful children and everyday she would thank God for a new lease of life.

So are we to deny that God did not heal? Are we to be like the ten lepers who were healed and only one came back to thank God? Sure, we can say it was coincidence and there’s no need to thank God but that’s not what the Bible tells us. But the emphasis is never on healing but growth in personal holiness and witnessing (evangelization).

Just because there are group of people who make bad example of the gifts does not mean we should discard what’s Biblical. We had bad Popes in our history but that does not mean we throw away the Papacy. Well, the Protestants did, but it’s not the office that’s bad but errand individuals.

Your posts showed that you have misconception about the charismatic gifts like equating praying in tongue as speaking in tongue and implying that prophecy means foretelling. These are far from the truth.

Reuben
 
The charismatic gifts mentioned are:

Wisdom
Knowledge
Faith
Healing
Miracle
Prophecy
Discernment (of the spirit)
Tongues
Interpretation of tongues.

I don’t believe these were lost, I think they were hidden and protected; only a few dare reveal their gifts…because they feared for their lives…It is true there are and have been charlatans but they are revealed eventually; more so now…because We have been granted the gift to no them by their fruits…

The Apostles had the gifts, and were tortured and killed but, Apostle John Zebedee who was over a hundred when he left…I have been told he just left and was not killed…John taught his gifts to the Bogomils, who were tortured by Rome and they settled in So France with the Cathars…the Cathars kept the teachings secret but their protecters caused chaos when their paid protectors killed an Inquisitor and Catholic Bishop in France, so the Inquisition in the 1200’s commenced to wipe them out(the Cathars) the Cathars volunteered their execution so some could escape…It has been written millions were burned and tortured…some survived and went into hiding carrying the teachings with them, they were discreet who they revealed their teachings to

The Cathars teachings were word of mouth. The Essenes had the same teachings, that were taught to Jesus. There has been some writings but it was confiscated by the church… It is now surfacing…
 
Glenda Green is an internationally recognized portrait painter and art historian. In 1989, her husband had a dream that Glenda was to paint a portrait of Jesus Christ. The possibility intrigued her, but it took nearly two years before she decided to undertake such a painting. After months of study, research, and contemplation, she felt frustrated as to how to proceed. She prayed in her studio for guidance.
Glenda describes what happened next: "At that moment, a presence entered the room unlike any I’ve ever experienced … Although He was transparent, there was a radiant glow, and He displaced the air so conspicuously that I could see currents of pressure-waves rippling about eight feet in front of me. Was it the Holy Spirit … or perhaps a special angel? … later experiences and insights were to reveal that it was the Master Himself, in pure spiritual form.

"The Presence called my name, though in no human words I know, and then shot a beam of energy from Himself to a point between my eyes. I presume He implanted something into my optic nerve, for a radiant picture projected before my eyes. It was an exact visual prototype of the painting to be done… “From that moment forward, my life has not been the same, not even in the smallest way … After that, the events of every day unfolded perfectly as they should, and each hour of work was a living dialogue with the Master.”

Glenda Green’s book, Love Without End: Jesus Speaks, is the result of the Master Jesus’s four-month visit to her studio in Fort Worth, Texas.
 
Hi Nancy47

One of our friends here on another thread titled "Physical description of Jesus " does not subscribe to the view that Jesus had blue eyes:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3375954&postcount=11
Post # 11 by Ghoti
“I would also doubt that He had blue eyes and long auburn hair.
And He may very well not have been handsome, as the prophet pointed out. Who needs good looks when you Da Man?”
Would you like to give your arguments? If so; kindly write in that thread.

Thanks and regards
 
the Christians as Christ, the Moslems as the Imam Mahdi, the
Buddhists as Maitreya
mcn.org/1/Miracles/fricke.html

Healers Speak of Experiencing Maitreya
by Bettina Fricke
Later, when I returned to my hotel room, one of the young women I
just met during the group photo was sitting there. Nicolai, her
Russian interpreter, had called her to give healing to a friend of
mine with whom I was sharing a room. Her name was Aigul. Nicolai
told me that Aigul was a healer and that she had become very known
recently because she had predicted the great earthquake of Armenia
three weeks in advance. She gave my friend precise information about
his illness and about events from his past.

Next day I met her again. I suddenly had the idea to show her the
photograph of Maitreya in Nairobi, which I always carried with
me. “Who is this man?” I asked her. When she looked at the
photograph, something changed in her expression. Then she told me
that this man had appeared to her at about five o’clock in the
morning of 16 August 1991. She was in her bedroom with her husband.
It was no dream, she was fully awake, as the man suddenly appeared
in front of her. She could not move, so strong was the energy that
came from him. The man had looked exactly like the one in Nairobi,
she said, only his beard was white and a bit longer. He told her
that she was going to heal from then on. She did not understand, but
later, when she left the house, she felt an “enormous energy”. She
could even stop the cars in the street. “I did not know how to
handle that enormous amount of energy at first,” she told me.

From that moment her whole life changed. She had been a simple
housewife with six children. Suddenly she could diagnose medical
problems, of which she previously had not the slightest idea. She
knew the future and the past of a person. She saw everything in a
different way. One day she was looking at TV. Suddenly there was the
face of that man on the screen, then a date written beneath, and
ruined houses. This was the earthquake of Armenia, exactly three
weeks before it happened. “It was Mohammed I had seen, and who had
come to me,” she said.

It seems important to mention that this was the first time she had
spoken to anyone else, apart from her husband. “You know, I am from
a small village, everybody knows everybody. I did not dare tell them
what I had seen”.

She was very excited. I tried to give her more information material
from Share International, but she could only read Kyril writing. So
I told her all I knew about Maitreya and that each man would
recognize him in his own way ÷ the Christians as Christ, the Moslems
as the Imam Mahdi, the Buddhists as Maitreya. It took some minutes,
but then she understood. “Your friend Ben is right,” she said. “Tell
him”.
We decided to see Mr Kozhalymov, the President of her association,
and we met him in front of the congress hall. Much to my amazement I
had already met him the day before during the group photo session.
We exchanged cards. When Aigul showed him the photo of Nairobi, he
touched it with his fingers and closed his eyes. He seemed to
remember something. Then he described how he had often seen this man
before going to sleep. “A very holy man,” he said, but he did not
want to spend more time on it.

In the evening we met some other of Aigul’s friends. We showed them
the photos of Nairobi and the crosses of light. It was a pity they
could not read the text. However Aigul promised to send me a letter
with an exact description of her experience.
In the evening some of our party had taken part in a healing
ceremony of Sary Aulie, the white-dressed man. They were very
impressed. Obviously he was a great healer. However it seemed
difficult to contact him. When I was on my way to the Congress hall,
he suddenly came up in front of me. I managed somehow to pull the
Nairobi picture quickly out of my bag. There was no interpreter
around and I could not express my question. When Sary Aulie saw the
picture, he stopped. It took some time for him to find someone who
could translate Kazak into English. Obviously he wanted urgently to
explain something to me. “I know this man”, he finally said. “This
is my ancestor. He can appear and disappear. He is my teacher. He
comes often to me and I know where to find him”. He wanted to keep
the photo and asked me for another appointment at three o’clock in
the afternoon, for a “very special healing ceremony”. He seemed to
give great importance to our meeting.

Unfortunately the room where we were to meet was already prepared
for an evening concert. Somebody told me that Sary Aulie and his
group would leave the city in the evening to fly to Turkistan,
the ‘mecca’ of the region. I tried to find out what this meant for
me because I had no telephone number or address. However only a
little later it turned out that a lady from our group, who lived in
the same district as Sary Aulie and his group, gave me his address.
She told me that she ÷ a scientist specially interested in healing
methods of different cultures ÷ had been invited by Sary Aurlie for
next year. I showed her the crosses of light and she told me that
there is a place between Moscow and St Petersburg where there appear
all sorts of geometric forms and crosses in the sky. “A group of
Russian scientists,” she said, “has been trying to give an
explanation for these phenomena in the sky for several months.”

( from Share International, January-February 1993 )
 
Tim, my husband of 43 years and myself have both had Jesus appear to us this is what, Tim wrote…I agree with Tim, and many others:

With these words there seemed to be a great calm, which came over my being. I gazed at this man dressed in white cloth and red robe. Standing there his hair was the color brown, with splashes of sunlight in it. His eyes were the color of the sea, a blue-green, almost hazel. He was fair complected, and his skin seemed to glow about him, surely this was man of magnificent magnitude, but who, and where did he come from?

I could not seem to break my gaze from his, for it seemed, he was reading my most inner thoughts, beckoning me unto him.

Also the Vatican has a description:
 
I am from Jamaica, I usually attend a Catholic Prayer meeting and a lot of the members are charismatic. praying and prophesying in tongues is an every night part of the prayer meeting but there is always an interpreter (another member who has the gift of interpretation of tongues) and other people as well who also get confirmation from the bible. There are several members there with the gift of prophecy sometimes the prophecy is given in Old English which is quite understandable and sometimes in a different language.

The gift of speaking in tongues is different from giving a prophecy. Speaking in tongues is for the speaker’s own edification and it is a gift from God for our own spiritual uplifting. I also got the gift of tongues when my catholic brothers and sisters took us through a life in the spirit seminar which lasted about seven weeks and culminated with laying on of hands and praying for those who participated.

After getting the gift of tongues, one week later at prayer meeting, the palm of our hands were anointed. I noticed that I began to feel a lot of heat in my hands which lasted for weeks. I was very frightened I didn’t know what it was, and coupled with that anywhere I went, I could tell people’s illnesses because I began to feel people’s pains. I don’t feel it anymore unless I pray for them but, that was how I found out that I also have the gift of healing. I said all of this to say that the Holy Spirit works through us, we are His Hands, Mouth, and Feet. Any way in which God uses us it is for His own Glory and Honor. Not for us to put up on the wall. It should be shared because the Apostles came back and shared but they didn’t take the glory.
 
All I know is I’ve been around evangelicals for years and they all have stories of miraculous healings witnessed first-hand, but I’ve never seen one. One guy at my old church even said they had a video of a guy’s leg growing back while people prayed over him. I wasn’t given the opportunity to watch, but I’d think they would shout it from the rooftops and take it to the news if it were true. Also, they are very carefully ambiguous about what they actually believe. The pastor at my old church will tell you all day long that you don’t have to speak in tongues as evidence that you are ‘filled with the Spirit’, but based on his actions and words at all other times it is obvious he believes that if you have never spoken in tongues, you have never received the Spirit, and might as well have never been saved. The problem with many Prot churches IMO; as you are only going to hear what the Pastor believes in any particular church, and it may be totally different than the evangelical church down the road. Also I’ve noticed that most people I’ve heard speaking tongues just seem to repeat the same four or five syllables over and over. And each has it’s own unique flavor. The assistant pastor started the majority of his ‘speaking’ with a SH sound. (I.E., SHo-ro-za-Roob-ababa! SHO-do-ba-zaLUbabo!) The head pastor liked to roll alot of RRRRs and ended his group of syllables with a ‘ZUDA’, without fail. Must mean amen. And I think ‘babababababa’ is a word, because I hear that alot.

IDK, it just seems to me that, why bother? They tell me it’s a way of praying when I don’t know what to pray for, as though God doesn’t know what I need before I do and needs me to use a different language to tell Him. To me it seems to cheapen God and imply imperfection in Him. If I don’t know what to pray, I do like the Bible says and pray ‘in the Spirit’, which does NOT mean ‘in tongues’. It means I open my heart and mind to God and reach out to Him with my whole being. This often happens when praying the rosary, in my case. In the same way Paul said to pray ‘without ceasing’, not meaning to literally pray 24/7, but to let your lives be a visible prayer, serving God with all your strength in everything you do.

Also, I’ve noticed that ‘prophecy’ seems to work the same way; very ambiguously. Obviously they must be careful about throwing around false prophecies. They can’t claim to be ‘Bible believers’ if they ignore the fact that God places alot of limitations on what is true ‘prophecy’. One guy that regularly goes to my old church is a Messianic Jew who does nothing but travel from church to church and give ‘prophecies’. He sells books after service to support himself. All his prophecies are extremely vague. Most people he speaks to of course do confirm that his ‘prophesy’ came ‘true’, usually in a roundabout way based on their understanding of the vague prophecy in the first place. As an example, he may say, ‘you are going to be blessed with increase this month!’ Then that month the person finds a ten dollar bill on the sidewalk and believes the ‘prophecy’. He also likes to say things like, ‘the situation you are facing right now will turn around soon.’ Knowing that people are almost always facing some sort of ‘situation’, and the fact that things are in a constant state of change helps these people sell their wares. It’s really no different than what any good palm reader or ‘psychic’ does.

In all my years of honestly searching for Christ I have been forced to come to the conclusion that the vast majority of ‘Christians’ are in it solely for the entertainment value. Catholicism was boring, lets try something new. There is a new church and a new belief system every day. In my particular part of the world the new thing is ‘Messianism’ or whatever they call it. The Christian channels here for the past couple of years have been playing alot of folks who advocate going back to follow the Torah as the ‘original’ Christians did. They even somehow manage to use Acts as their basis, completely ignoring the council of Jerusalem. Seriously the new thing with ‘church culture’ protestants is a return to the Dark! The very same Law that could never save us is being touted as the real way to serve God. Meh. Anyways, there’s my two.
 
Tim, my husband of 43 years and myself have both had Jesus appear to us this is what, Tim wrote…I agree with Tim, and many others:
With these words there seemed to be a great calm, which came over my being. I gazed at this man dressed in white cloth and red robe. Standing there his hair was the color brown, with splashes of sunlight in it. His eyes were the color of the sea, a blue-green, almost hazel. He was fair complected, and his skin seemed to glow about him, surely this was man of magnificent magnitude, but who, and where did he come from?
I could not seem to break my gaze from his, for it seemed, he was reading my most inner thoughts, beckoning me unto him.
Also the Vatican has a description:
Hi

What is the description of the vatican about Jesus?
Kindly mention with reference.

Thanks
 
forgot to mention what drew me to comment in the first place. I was at a Men of Iron ‘advance’ (get it? it’s not a ‘retreat’!) and at the end of a service the Pastor encouraged people to speak in tongues, then other people interpreted. Well, this one guy spoke, then another guy started interpreting. It really was a nice message, but halfway through the pastor stopped the guy and said, 'that’s not the interpretation of that one, let’s hear from someone else. What had me wondering was, if the pastor knew what was the ‘wrong’ interpretation, why didn’t he just give the right one, and if it was wrong in the first place what does that say about these ‘gifts’?
 
And before Saint Augustine as well.
St Augustine lived about a century after Emperor Constantine and by then Christianity was already established. Charismatic gifts were abound (obviously) after the first Pentecost when there was much persecution but by the time of Constantine, Christians began to relax and did not think much about miracles and supernatural.

I
f he did not see miracles and was surprised by one that does not mean there were none in other places. There are seasonsin Church history. There are times when the Church flourishes in different ways and then there are declines. Saint Thomas Aquinas had gifts. He explicated great theological understanding. He did not sing in tongues, fall on the floor, or bi-locate. A bit later we see Theresa of Avila and John of the Cross, whose gifts are more mystical in nature, no falling on the floor. There are gifts in worship, sacred music, Pallestrina, faith expressed in the majesty of art and architecture that cause awe centuries later. In all of this there is never disorder or chaos.
There were many forms of gifts of the Holy Spirit. No surprise there.
There is no doubt this is a time of upheaval, scandal, and the Church is battered. Why? What precipitated this? What went wrong?
I think Pope B16 said it nicely – relativism and the prevalence of affluent and materialism too.

But the promise of God was that the Gate of Hell would prevail against His Church. Surely it was consistent with His action – sending the Holy Spirit in a more pronounced way to save the Church. If we depend solely on the clergy today, where would we be? In my diocese 75% of the priests were over 65 years old and there is no knowing when young people would step out to answer the calling to priestly vocation.
I do know these things. I do not believe the pope or Mother Teresa saw what I have seen, and what you agree with that there are many so called prophesies, for just one example that are false.
I quote them to show that the Charismatic movement is a legal part of the Church. We should respect it because it is part of the church as we should respect other movements too. Different movements have different charisms but they are for the good of one body – the Church. There are always people who do thing differently and at times obviously not right, but in all humility, we cannot lump everyone as the same. Surely there are good Christians in the Charismatic Renewals and I can vouch for that with certainty. And it is not about just the Charismatic Gifts; it is about renewing their love for God, for prayer, for Sacraments, for Mary and for evangelization. I know many of these people really pray. So it is not too bad, very much like the other good people perhaps like you yourself.
When people live holy lives they are blessed. They receive blessings and you can call them gifts.
I certainly agree with this. I was saying we all can be like them. By ourselves we may not be able to live holy lives but by the power of God in us we can if we so desire.
The first step to holiness is repentance, a gift in itself.
This is exactly the turning point of their lives – from sinners to holiness. How did they realize that they were sinners and what power that enabled many of them to make 180 degrees turn in their lives in repentance? This is the Holy Spirit that works in us.
Growing in holiness requires more grace and is manifested in obedience. Obedience is the same as love of God according to scripture.
Exactly. I always try to be obedient to God’s words. But many a time I fail because my flesh is weak. I can only thank God through the power of His Holy Spirit that sustains my perseverance. If not, maybe I had left the church or perhaps became Muslims.

I use to tell myself that I love God but may times my actions do not show that I love Him. I can only love Him if He helps me to.
 
There is only one thing you need to care about and that is that you live a life that pleases God, by His grace (gift). If He wants you to be a healer or prophet that is up to Him. Do not seek this. Only seek holiness and virtue. If God wants to use you in some peculiar or extaordinary way He will. Padre Pio did not ask for the stigmata, to be a mystic, to heal thousands, to read souls. He was chosen. He did not seek fireworks. Charismatics seek fireworks.
I have emphasized this in my earlier posts but perhaps they were not noticed. Charismatic gifts are given by God as gifts. No amount of what we do can deserve them. We cannot buy things of God. And gifts are for serving. Not many people wants such gifts because it means giving away their lives in serving. But if we do have the gifts then we should use them to build the body (to serve).

It means to sacrifice many nights at odd hours when you are called to minister to those who need your ministering. And things like these are plenty and you lives become not your own. But for the glory of God people are willing to do that. And that was what the saints did, what Mother Teresa did, Fr. Pio or St Francis. I do not believe that they were doing all the things they did by their own strength. Yes, initially when they made the decision to be obedient but in the course of their lives it was God who certainly gave them the strength.
I guess we don’t have to worry about that. No one is restraining.
I have seen people who actually restrain. Maybe out of good intention but nevertheless they restrain. Not restraining I would say is to allow and not to condemn when people do thing differently from what we would like them to do. In any case all works will be tested by fire and if they are not from God they will be turned to ashes and destroyed.
There are more so called prophets today than in all history combined and it is 99% bunk.
That’s the surprise and makes it worth noting. There must be something at work but of course we cannot take everything whole sale and accept everything. Discernment is a supernatural gift and God will not let His people down by withholding this gift for the good of His people.
I have also seen miracles personally. For every miracle I have seen I have seen hundreds or people “claim their miracles” and it was false.
Then we come to an agreement here. How differences can be reconciled when we allow the truth to prevail.
How many times do I have to say I
believe God heals people miraculously?
OK I note this. It’s perhaps the vehemence of your tone that makes that statement being overlooked.
There is not “a” group of people who are off the wall wackos. Most of these meetings are as I described. All that I have ever been to exhibit some degree of lunacy. Sorry!
I don’t know where you live but I believe your experience because you say so. But like I said we cannot lump all people to be same as what you saw. And what I saw, the exercising of the Charismatic gifts are reasonable, perhaps because the understanding is clear and everything is done for God’s glory and never for one selves.
I declare myself a mature Christian and that I have the gift of discernment.
That is beautiful. As for me, I never know that I am a mature Christian though. I may take people words for it but as far as being mature in Christ, it is always a struggle for me. Many a times my thought, actions and decisions are not always very Christ like. I think I may be able to discern in a right situation but again not always – I need others to work together with me.
I discern that there is a lot of false prophesy among other bad things going on in the charismatic subculture of Catholicism. The claims that religious meetings are full of prophets in every city and town are bogus. The claim that these are valid as long as someone is there with the gift of disernment is bogus, on the grounds that no one ever stands up in that role and calls foul. You say this prophesying is Biblical and all fine as long as there is someone there to discern it, but if there were they would be confronting those who claim they are prophesying and are not. There is no one there doing that. So your safeguard simply is not operating. It does not exist, making it all improper.
I think we have to decide whether they are Biblical or not first and move from there. I have been to a few countries attending conferences and while there would drop in their prayer meetings. Not all prayer meetings are run in the same manner but there must be some basic principle that must be in operation if they are to run well.

For starter, all core leaders or at least for those who serve in the forefront must have good prayer life and free from any major sins. I think it is reasonable to demand at least one hour of personal prayer a day with the Lord in additional to perhaps regular Holy Eucharist. How could a leader (servant) lead if he/she is not in deep communion with the Lord. Unless the relationship with God is in place there is no way that we can know the mind of God.
 
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