Protestant opinion on where Roman Catholic Church went into apostasy?

[Minks]

@OKComputer

Happy Anniversary to you, Happy Anniversary to you, Happy Anniversary, Dear OKComputer . . . HAPPY ANNIVERSARY to YOUUUUU !!

 

[OKComputer]

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[RaisedCatholic]

And yet it was considered inspired for more than 300 years

By some ECFs, but not others. The book was not in the NT of every ECF & every Christian writer. And unlike the 27 books of the NT, 1 Clement eventually was rejected because of the errors in it that were not found in the canonical books.

 

[7_Sorrows]

So Henry VIII didn’t dis the Church, he simply broke away just because…

Why, again?

Henry VIII was actually given the title of Defender of the Faith by the Pope
because he defended the Catholic faith when Martin Luther was attacking the
Catholic faith. Henry VIII waited several years for the Pope to annul his marriage
to Catherine so he could marry Anne Boleyn. Henry VIII did not want to stop
being Catholic. @sainteriksrose

 

[stpurl]

Well by the time he executed Bishop Fisher and Thomas More, he wanted to be ‘more Catholic than the Pope’. He wanted to keep all the Catholic things he liked, but he wanted to be the Head of the Church. Power-hungry, midlife crisis, symptoms of syphilis, the ‘male succession’, warped sexual views, egotism, combined with a utilitarian philosophy quick to ‘use’ the rebellious issues in Protestantism while coyly remaining ‘on the fence’ so that he appeared to support both the Protestants and Catholics. . .

Not to mention that with the dissolution of the monasteries and distribution of the wealth to mainly (but not solely) Protestant lords, there was a vested interest for them to maintain the status quo and de facto shift to being a Protestant country. Even the Catholic lords who had benefitted from the influx of wealth were unwilling to give that up.

And in the end, what happened?

The son who was so important was a child ruler who died as a teen. The legitimate female heir Mary had her youth destroyed, her chances for a ‘normal’ marriage destroyed, suffered survivor guilt after her mother’s death. . .and wound up dying childless.

The middle child whose mother was executed for adultery, herself banished from the court as a young girl, investigated for unseemly sexual conduct with her uncle by marriage who had married Henry’s last wife on Henry’s death (never proven), sent to the Tower by her sister, became queen. . .never married but spent years, into her 50s, playing herself as a pawn on the marriage market, tried to ‘straddle the fence’ religiously like her father but wound up signing the papers approving the execution of her own cousin Mary Queen of Scots who had been held as a prisoner by Elizabeth for nearly 20 years while kangaroo courts played with concocted evidence and Walsingham and Cecil stacked the country even further to keep their titles and wealth. . .

One can’t help but feel sorry for Henry. As with so many, he wound up committing atrocities to achieve ‘what he wanted’ because he convinced himself that what HE wanted had to be what GOD wanted.

 

[josie_L]

They are referring to the Church in Rome, but the whole of the Catholic Church should not be referred to as such, nor was it when speaking of the universal Church which was comprised of various rites. The Church was Catholic and the faith orthodox as per all church fathers.

It was used by Protestants to convey their break from Rome, which held the primacy, and served as a reminder that Rome, the whore of Babylon that sits on seven hills and its bishop the anti-Christ was no longer its master.

So yes, it was a pejorative and still is to many.

 

[GKMotley]

Hank’s been a hobby of mine for years. Only point I’d cavil at is the symptoms of syphilis. Scarisbrick’s bio (best of the many I own on Hank, the fascinating train-wreck) demurs on the subject of syphilis.

 

[stpurl]

I do think that all things considered there were other potential causes for Henry’s physical (and emotional) symptoms than syphilis but it does remain I think a possibility, considering ‘the French pox’ and the society of the time. I agree though—Henry is a fascinating figure and not someone who can be easily ‘catalogued’.

 

[GKMotley]

Scarisbrick holds that the leg ulcer usually cited as a suggestion of syphilis was more likely a varicose ulcer or perhaps a sign of osteomyelitis, a staph infection. The evidence for anything specific is scant. So, who knows.

Scarisbrick, HENRY VIII, p.485-488, and note 2.

 

[PickyPicky]

The middle child whose mother was executed for adultery, herself banished from the court as a young girl, investigated for unseemly sexual conduct with her uncle by marriage who had married Henry’s last wife on Henry’s death (never proven), sent to the Tower by her sister, became queen. . .never married but spent years, into her 50s, playing herself as a pawn on the marriage market, tried to ‘straddle the fence’ religiously like her father but wound up signing the papers approving the execution of her own cousin Mary Queen of Scots who had been held as a prisoner by Elizabeth for nearly 20 years while kangaroo courts played with concocted evidence and Walsingham and Cecil stacked the country even further to keep their titles and wealth. . .

True, true, and yet … a brilliant politician, a multilingual scholar, whose instincts were for her time remarkably generous, liberal, unbigoted and consensual.

 

[GKMotley]

Almost as fascinating as her dad.

 

[stpurl]

Yes indeed. The whole family Tudor (and I’m not talking the dreadful “The Tudors” TV) was endlessly fascinating.

 

[GKMotley]

I concur. And I’m talking books, not the soap opera.

 

[mcq72]

True. But this could be why we see people disagreeing with the policy of burning people alive at the stake in public as was done during the Inquisition.

Well be careful to consider many falling into this sin. Were not some witches burned or killed at Salem. Did not Calvin or church/ civil governance hang a few dissenters?

But yes, the CC set up a bad precedence of enforcing orthodoxy, conformity, thru civil means, ironically beginning at Nicene Council, where civil authorities ended Christian persecution. I believe such union of state and church and enslaving yolk did not end till 18th century in America, when it became legal to have a Baptist Church and a Catholic Church and a Lutheran Church on same Main St.

 

[GKMotley]

At Salem, hung. Save for one individual crushed under rocks ( peine forte et dure) for refusing to testify.

 

[mcq72]

At Salem, hung. Save for one individual crushed under rocks ( peine forte et dure) for refusing to testify.

yes, thank you for clarification…wasn’t sure about saying burning hence i added 'killed"

 

[GKMotley]

The crushed one was the only guy.

 

[hope]

Apostasy means to totally reject Jesus Christ. The “Reformation” was not an apostasy of any “sorts” Julian the Apostate was an example.

 

[adamhovey1988]

One thing that I notice, is they usually say it’s Constantine. No need for a gradual apostasy, apparently.

 

[Wannano]

One thing that I notice, is they usually say it’s Constantine. No need for a gradual apostasy, apparently.

There is no need for a gradual apostacy but it comes paradoxically with freedom from persecution in the form of mediocrity and lukewarmness.