Protestants, How could an Infallible book be of use to you, w/o an Infallible Interpreter?

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Syele said:
Suppose that everyone on earth agreed on one interpretation. Now, suppose that one was actually wrong. Would that be acceptable? You are correct that there is only one Truth. The problem is that i dont believe anyone has got it 100% before they are with God in Heaven where He will fully enlighten us. It is not a popularity contest to see who has the most unity. Unity is good, but it is not the end in itself. 🤷
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I’ve sometimes wondered myself if anyone on earth is 100% fully capable of getting **everything **right until then. I dunno. 🤷 Can we on earth fully fathom the glory of heaven? Won’t heaven be more glorious than our human minds can see or even imagine? We have unity in our belief in Him. That’s a good thing.
 
michaeldaniels said:
Let us get something straight right now…There is ONLY 1 Catholic Church…those other “2000 Catholic” denominations are heretics claiming to be Catholics…doesn’t make it so though
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If people want to quote stuff from rubbish against Protestants then I see no reason not to quote the SAME source against Catholics.
 
Oh Lord …I am aware of that. Did I ever say that it was the original language? I am aware that ancient Hebrew and Greek was the original language…however, since we are speaking English on this board…I was discussing the 1st English Translation which is a DIRECT translation from the Latin and the Latin Vulgate is a DIRECT translation of the Greek
Priscilla_Ann said:
The original scriptures were not written in Latin.
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Except…I really am speaking the truth…there is ONLY 1 Catholic Church…people might try to use our name, but there is only 1…PERIOD. On the other hand, in any given town you will see 5 different Churches claiming to all be Baptist…and they are and they believe different things.
Syele said:
If people want to quote stuff from rubbish against Protestants then I see no reason not to quote the SAME source against Catholics.
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Syele said:
Of course not, However it is not better to accept only one if that one is incorrect.
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Read the following scriptures, in context of who the words were spoken too. They were not spoken to the multitudes. They were spoken specifically to the men Christ appointed over His Church. Now consider the inspired word of God tells us the Church of the living God is the pillar and ground of truth. Can we not depend on Christ to do what He said?

**Joh 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

Joh 14:26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. And behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.**

The inspired word of God tells us many things. It does not tell us that the Bible is the ONLY authority. That is a man made tradition that is incorrect if it’s not taught in scriptures. The teaching of interpretating scriptures alone, without any other parameters, is incorrect if it’s not in scriptures.

Nehemiah 8, tells us the people had to have scriptures explained to them to cause them to understand. The Ethiopian eunuch had scriptures, but he couldn’t understand them until Philip preached Jesus to him. Peter tells us that the unlearned, unstable and unwise wrest scriptures, even to their own destructions, he does not tell us that there is a way to read them with holy spirit guidance and be assured no mistakes were made. Paul had to preach the Gospel to the Bereans, then some believed. Others searched the scriptures to see if what He preached, with authority, was true or not. Even after hearing preaching and searching scriptures, some believed, but not ALL.
 
Syele said:
If people want to quote stuff from rubbish against Protestants then I see no reason not to quote the SAME source against Catholics.
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Again, when is the number too many? Are 1000 denominations, with different doctrines/teachings, based on someone’s interpretation of scriptures and all claiming Holy Spirit guidance acceptable? Personally, I think even 10 would be too many…
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
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Josiah:
  1. Where are we told which one of the 2.1 billion believers in 2010 is this “INFALLIBLE” interpreter?
  2. Did you know that the word “infallible” never appears in the Bible?
  3. LOTS of things are “useful” that are not INFALLIBLE. My computer. Shoes. Starbucks coffee. Valentine cards. Deodorant. My Toyota Camry (not being recalled, btw). The jet I took to Phoenix the other day. The law that says that normally we drive on the right hand side of the road in the USA.
  4. I think your “problem” is with self appointing self as the sole and infallible interpreter. But I remind you that there actually is only ONE that does that: The Catholic Church. Read your Catechism # 85 and 87. You will find NOTHING of that in the Catechism of ANY other denomination. Your “problem” I suspect is singularly with The Catholic Church on this point, and frankly, I agree with you.
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But the scriptures do tell us the Church of the living God is the pillar and ground of truth. Do we think the Church of the living God is not infallible?
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  1. No. Actually, Scripture never mention “Church” at all, and certainly not The Catholic Church.
  2. Yes, the church is the pillar and ground of truth. We are to uphold the truth. But what in the WORLD does that have to do with The Catholic Church? Or about it and it alone being the sole and infallible and unaccountable interpreter of Scripture?
  3. Actually, the word “infallible” never appears in Scripture. God certainly LEADS His people - but there’s zero relevance of that to any denomination (or person) being INFALLIBLE/UNACCOUNTABLE. Did God lead Adam and Eve in the Garden? They were perfect people in a perfect world - lead perfectly by a perfect God. Were they THUS infallible and unaccountable? Was it mandated that THUS they infallibly, persistently, constantly, perpetually FOLLOW that lead? Was it mandated that THUS they were unaccountable for their following? Obviously not. The premise that if God leads, then all are infallible/unaccountable is not only illogical and contrary to all we know, but entirely unbiblical.
  4. Again, I think the opening post has a “problem” with self designating self as the sole and infallible and unaccountable interpreter of Scripture. Ironically, this Catholic’s “problem” is solely with one: The Catholic Church. It is the only one that so insists (CCC 85, 87, etc.). His problem is with his denomination, not with any Protestant denomination (NONE of which makes the claim of self alone for self alone that The Catholic Church does in this regard). His finger is pointed in the wrong direction.
Thank you.

Pax
  • Josiah
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michaeldaniels said:
Perfect example of why protestants, when left on their on, unguided by The Holy Spirit will twist and change the meanings via their own private interpretation…The Douay Rheims Bible is the most accurate and literal translation from the Latin that exist…it is error free. Are you saying that the DR Bible is lying, the scriptures are false, and the footnotes provided for the correct interpretation of that passage are also false???
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Misguided, misinformed, wrong on some matters that sound literal; very beautiful, very true on matters symbolic and allegorical and psychological in many places.

That’s my answer.

That one version is an excellent translation of another Latin translation is irrelevant.
 
AmericanJosiah said:
  1. No. Actually, Scripture never mention “Church” at all, and certainly not The Catholic Church.
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According to your interpretation, maybe.

1Ti 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

(KJVA) But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

(IGNT+) εανG1437 δεG1161 BUT IF βραδυνωG1019 [G5725] I SHOULD DELAY, ιναG2443 THAT ειδηςG1492 [G5762] THOU MAYEST KNOW πωςG4459 HOW δειG1163 [G5904] IT BEHOOVES “ONE” ενG1722 IN “THE” οικωG3624 HOUSE θεουG2316 OF GOD αναστρεφεσθαιG390 [G5745] TO CONDUCT ONESELF, ητιςG3748 WHICH εστινG2076 [G5748] IS εκκλησιαG1577 “THE” ASSEMBLY θεουG2316 OF GOD “THE” ζωντοςG2198 [G5723] LIVING, στυλοςG4769 PILLAR καιG2532 AND εδραιωμαG1477 BASE τηςG3588 OF THE αληθειαςG225 TRUTH.

G1577
ἐκκλησία
ekklēsia
ek-klay-see’-ah
From a compound of G1537 and a derivative of G2564; a calling out, that is, (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both): - assembly, church.

Now, to be fair, I provided it in the Douay-Rheims version, the King James Version and the original Greek. I’m sure if someone searched hard enough, they could find a Bible to state it differently, but then it seems searching would only be self serving and not searching with an open mind to the truth.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Again, when is the number too many? Are 1000 denominations, with different doctrines/teachings, based on someone’s interpretation of scriptures and all claiming Holy Spirit guidance acceptable? Personally, I think even 10 would be too many…
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  1. There is only ONE that itself alone claims for itself alone that itself alone is INFALLIBLE and thus UNACCOUNTABLE in such, and that all must just accept whatever that self alone says “with docility” “as Jesus speaking” It’s The Catholic Church (CCC 85, 87, etc.).
  2. We all realize that The Catholic Church alone is in full, official, formal and current agreement with The Catholic Church. It has a unity of exactly and only ONE: Itself. AT LEAST as much can be said for all other teachers and denominations. So what? Heck, I agree with me - officially, formally, currently anyway - I have a unity of AT LEAST one - myself. What huge significance do you see is that? Or in the same thing for The Catholic Church? It has a unity of just one: itself alone. That’s it, that’s all. Self ALONE agrees with self ALONE - and that only officially, formally and currently. So what? The denomination of my congregation (The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod) has AT LEAST that.
Again, I think the opening post has a “problem” with self designating self as the sole and infallible and unaccountable interpreter of Scripture. Ironically, this Catholic’s “problem” is solely with one: The Catholic Church. It is the only one that so insists (CCC 85, 87, etc.). His problem is with his denomination, not with any Protestant denomination (NONE of which makes the claim of self alone for self alone that The Catholic Church does in this regard). His finger is pointed in the wrong direction.

.
 
michaeldaniels said:
Except…I really am speaking the truth…there is ONLY 1 Catholic Church…people might try to use our name, but there is only 1…PERIOD. On the other hand, in any given town you will see 5 different Churches claiming to all be Baptist…and they are and they believe different things.
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And I really am speaking the truth too, there are not 30,000 denominations. and Starting off a whole argument with that premise is dishonest or ignorant at best, thus why I started off by asking the op to not troll. I have visited most of the Baptist churches in my town and their beliefs were not all different. Your belief that they are is anecdotal at best.
 
AmericanJosiah said:
  1. Yes, the church is the pillar and ground of truth. We are to uphold the truth. But what in the WORLD does that have to do with The Catholic Church? Or about it and it alone being the sole and infallible and unaccountable interpreter of Scripture?
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It’s ironic to see a Lutheran brother deny the Catholic Church, being Martin Luther, once a priest in the Catholic Church, left (or was ex-communicated if you prefer) left the Church over the matters of indulgences. Never did he doubt that the Catholic Church was not the Church of the Bible. He believed it had become corrupt. But, 500 years later, his teachings are being twisted to fit a theology, that he himself did not teach.
 
michaeldaniels said:
Oh Lord …I am aware of that. Did I ever say that it was the original language? I am aware that ancient Hebrew and Greek was the original language…however, since we are speaking English on this board…I was discussing the 1st English Translation which is a DIRECT translation from the Latin and the Latin Vulgate is a DIRECT translation of the Greek
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Are there any other English translations of the Greek besides from the Latin?
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
1Ti 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

(KJVA) But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

(IGNT+) εανG1437 δεG1161 BUT IF βραδυνωG1019 [G5725] I SHOULD DELAY, ιναG2443 THAT ειδηςG1492 [G5762] THOU MAYEST KNOW πωςG4459 HOW δειG1163 [G5904] IT BEHOOVES “ONE” ενG1722 IN “THE” οικωG3624 HOUSE θεουG2316 OF GOD αναστρεφεσθαιG390 [G5745] TO CONDUCT ONESELF, ητιςG3748 WHICH εστινG2076 [G5748] IS εκκλησιαG1577 “THE” ASSEMBLY θεουG2316 OF GOD “THE” ζωντοςG2198 [G5723] LIVING, στυλοςG4769 PILLAR καιG2532 AND εδραιωμαG1477 BASE τηςG3588 OF THE αληθειαςG225 TRUTH.

G1577
ἐκκλησία
ekklēsia
ek-klay-see’-ah
From a compound of G1537 and a derivative of G2564; a calling out, that is, (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both): - assembly, church.

Now, to be fair, I provided it in the Douay-Rheims version, the King James Version and the original Greek. I’m sure if someone searched hard enough, they could find a Bible to state it differently, but then it seems searching would only be self serving and not searching with an open mind to the truth.
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Thank you. So where is the mention of The Catholic Church? About anything? For anything? Concerning anything?

Where does this say the The Catholic Church - solely and exclusively - is the INFALLIBLE and UNACCOUNTABLE interpreter of Scripture?

It seems to me you just confirmed my point: Scripture says “church.” Not The Catholic Church.

Again, I think the opening poster has a “problem” with self designating self as the sole and infallible and unaccountable interpreter of Scripture. Ironically, this Catholic’s “problem” is solely with one: The Catholic Church. It is the only one that so insists (CCC 85, 87, etc.). His problem is with his denomination, not with any Protestant denomination (NONE of which makes the claim of self alone for self alone that The Catholic Church does in this regard). His finger is pointed in the wrong direction.

.
 
Syele said:
And I really am speaking the truth too, there are not 30,000 denominations. and Starting off a whole argument with that premise is dishonest or ignorant at best, thus why I started off by asking the op to not troll. I have visited most of the Baptist churches in my town and their beliefs were not all different. Your belief that they are is anecdotal at best.
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Never did I say that there is 30,000 protestant denomination
you can quote if you like

the only thing I remember saying is “30,000 INTERPRETATIONS”
And yes there is morethan 30,000 christian denominations
 
Well…all your later english translations come from and are based off the DR…so it is important to note it is the most literal and accurate English translation that exist and hasn’t be retranslated over and over again to fit the language of the day
larkin31 said:
Misguided, misinformed, wrong on some matters that sound literal; very beautiful, very true on matters symbolic and allegorical and psychological in many places.

That’s my answer.

That one version is an excellent translation of another Latin translation is irrelevant.
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Prodigal_Son1 said:
Again, when is the number too many? Are 1000 denominations, with different doctrines/teachings, based on someone’s interpretation of scriptures and all claiming Holy Spirit guidance acceptable? Personally, I think even 10 would be too many…
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Again, Unity is a good thing, never disagreed with that point, so long as those in unity are correct. When did it become ok to use incorrect information to prove a valid point? You are saying the end justifies the means? Cause it sure looks like you are saying that the 30k number is ok cause more than one is bad.
 
AmericanJosiah said:
Again, I think the opening post has a “problem” with self designating self as the sole and infallible and unaccountable interpreter of Scripture. Ironically, this Catholic’s “problem” is solely with one: The Catholic Church. It is the only one that so insists (CCC 85, 87, etc.). His problem is with his denomination, not with any Protestant denomination (NONE of which makes the claim of self alone for self alone that The Catholic Church does in this regard). His finger is pointed in the wrong direction.
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Please provide the scriptures telling us that the Bible is the ONLY authority. Then provide the scriptures telling us who is right and who is wrong when interpretations differ.

This discussion has evolved and corrections are being made. I, for one, am using many scriptures to support my view and excerpts from the Catechism of the Catholic Church. So far, those promoting the Bible as the only authority or that it teaches each and every individual to interpret scriptures for themself,with no way to discern which is correct and which is wrong, is providing any scriptures. If it’s not in the Bible, it’s not scriptural.
 
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