Protestants shouldn't upset me -- right?

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hawkeye:
Even though your question makes no sense, if they wanted to have us pray for them then the wouldn’t take offence at us saying we will pray for them.
You are taking the actions of a few Protestants and making a blanket statement about all Protestants, which is offensive.

I personally know many Protestants, my family included, who love to have me pray with them and for them.

Prayer should not be used as a weapon in a debate anyway. I hope that you do pray for those you use this tactic on.

God bless,
Iguana
 
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hawkeye:
Even though your question makes no sense, if they wanted to have us pray for them then the wouldn’t take offence at us saying we will pray for them.
You can pray for me anytime you want!

-C
 
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Emmy:
You mean the building itself? I don´t agree here we all are part of the Body of Christ to try to live and act like he wants us to do.
I do feel a lot of hate here Protestants are not heretics, they believe in Jesus Christ. And Christ said himself: love one another like I love you.

Emmy
All I need here is my dictionary:

her·e·tic (hhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/ebreve.gifrhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/prime.gifhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/ibreve.gif-thttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/ibreve.gifk)
n.
A person who holds controversial opinions, especially one who publicly dissents from the officially accepted dogma of the Roman Catholic Church.Ergo, protestants ARE heretics.

God bless.
 
Chris Burgwald:
The Church teaches that all salvation comes through the Church (hence the doctrine EENS).

But it does not teach that one must be a visible member of the Church to have that salvation mediated to it. (Cf. Lumen Gentium 14-16.) Nor has the Church ever taught that those who are not visible members of the Church are damned. To assert otherwise is to go contrary to centuries of Tradition (again, cf. the teaching of invincible ignorance).
Vatican II is NOT infallible. Read here: coomaraswamy-catholic-writings.com/What%20Vatican%20II%20Teaches.htm#_ftn3

I would “cf. the teaching of invincible ignorance” if it existed before modernism, yet it did not; therefore, you will not find it in Tradition. God bless.
 
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iguana27:
So, we see from the CCC that those in a Protestant denom can be incorporated into Christ by virtue of their baptism. The Catholic Church does not teach what you believe, so you must rectify this, or protest, and thus become protestant.

Were it not for the ardent love of many Protestants and their efforts to evangelize non-Christians, many more non-believers would be lost, due to the abdication of the Great Commission by lay Catholics in our country for most of its history. If you want to lead others to Christ and his Church, great, go for it, but do not condemn other Christians out of ignorance.

My mother was not even allowed to walk into a Catholic church growing up in the 50s, because she did not belong to the faith. No one made an effort to welcome her into the flock, or invite her to explore the faith. Too often Catholicism is presented as a members only club, and “cradle Catholics” are unwilling to share their faith, citing social etiquette or the privateness of their faith.

If you want to HATE something, hate the uncharitable attitude that leads to fallen away Catholics and repels Non-Catholic believers.

Peace,
Iguana
The CCC is not infallible. It is good, too, because if it were then the Church would be fallible because it professes errors in it. The mother of a close friend of mine read through the entire CCC and marked all its errors. If you have a newer edition, you will find that the Pope did the same thing, as his corrections are either in the back or already implemented into the text. If the Pope had to correct it, it was not infallible. I have never heard of that being done (for ANY reason) on any other infallible document, be it a council or other Papal declaration. God bless.
 
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EENS:
Vatican II is NOT infallible.
By your own definition, you are a heretic. This is not a word that should be slung about wildly.

I have seen on another thread that you do not believe the Catechism is infallible—this is true - Karl Keating went into a big long explanation of how inanimate objects cannot be fallible or infallible.

However, the CCC and the encyclicals of Vatican II are the official teaching of the church promulgated by the succesors of Peter. Since Popes are infallible when speaking on matters of faith and morals, we as the faithful are obliged to submit to their teaching.

Unless you are not Roman Catholic, in which case, you are a Protestant, assuming that you are Christian.

If Catholics cannot agree on the Catechism, then there is no unity, and the church is not “one.”
 
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EENS:
Vatican II is NOT infallible. Read here: coomaraswamy-catholic-writings.com/What%20Vatican%20II%20Teaches.htm#_ftn3

I would “cf. the teaching of invincible ignorance” if it existed before modernism, yet it did not; therefore, you will not find it in Tradition. God bless.
It is interesting that he cites *J’acuse le Council *by Archbishop Lefebvre as his source. I understand Archbishop Lefebvre was excommunicated. Is he, then, a reliable source?

Dr. Coomaraswamy seems to be one of the “you know who” (to borrow from Harry Potter and not bring down the wrath of the administrators – forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=5405). The following comment from another essay was telling:

“In conclusion, let us face the reality that to follow the post-Conciliar “popes” requires that we apostasize as they have. The choice is clear. Either we obey the post-Conciliar hierarchy and give up our faith, or we declare that the current pseudo-pope and the bishops in union with him are themselves not in the true Church.”

coomaraswamy-catholic-writings.com/NovusOrdo.htm

We probably shouldn’t talk about him anymore! :cool:

-C
 
I haven’t read everything he has said. I did read where he quoted those involved in Vatican II (prominently Paul VI) stating that it is merely pastoral. Also, that is from the Archbishop BEFORE he was excommunicated (I think?). Even if it is not, the other sources are still true. God bless.
 
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iguana27:
You are taking the actions of a few Protestants and making a blanket statement about all Protestants, which is offensive.

I personally know many Protestants, my family included, who love to have me pray with them and for them.

Prayer should not be used as a weapon in a debate anyway. I hope that you do pray for those you use this tactic on.

God bless,
Iguana
You didn’t grow up in Northern Ireland, until you have met a Protestant from over here then you don’t have room to speak.
Protestants from other countries are probably different, but over here they would do us no favors.
Anyway what is wrong with telling someone that you will pray for them ? better than blowing their brains out, or blowing them up in a car bomb, they generalize when they tell us were going to Hell.
 
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hawkeye:
You didn’t grow up in Northern Ireland, until you have met a Protestant from over here then you don’t have room to speak.
Protestants from other countries are probably different, but over here they would do us no favors.
Ah…protestants from N. Ireland. Have you read Angela’s Ashes? There is one part in there that is very funny. My brother read it, and he told me about it. He said that the main character and his friend see protestants playing croquet. The main character says, “What’s the point of playing croquet if they’re going Hell anyway.” His friend replies, “What’s the point of not playing croquet if you’re going to Hell anyway.” It’s too bad Catholics nowadays do not believe Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus as all did unequivocally in times past. God bless.
 
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EENS:
Ah…protestants from N. Ireland. Have you read Angela’s Ashes? There is one part in there that is very funny. My brother read it, and he told me about it. He said that the main character and his friend see protestants playing croquet. The main character says, “What’s the point of playing croquet if they’re going Hell anyway.” His friend replies, “What’s the point of not playing croquet if you’re going to Hell anyway.” It’s too bad Catholics nowadays do not believe Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus as all did unequivocally in times past. God bless.
I saw the movie, and the point your trying to make ? in plain English, please.
Anyway it’s 12-20 over her look forward to your reply need to say the Rosary before I retire, and pray for all sinners including myself, Goodnight :yawn:
 
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EENS:
Ah…protestants from N. Ireland. Have you read Angela’s Ashes? There is one part in there that is very funny. My brother read it, and he told me about it. He said that the main character and his friend see protestants playing croquet. The main character says, “What’s the point of playing croquet if they’re going Hell anyway.” His friend replies, “What’s the point of not playing croquet if you’re going to Hell anyway.” It’s too bad Catholics nowadays do not believe Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus as all did unequivocally in times past. God bless.
Rev. Ian Paisely
Orangemen
Fecal matter thrown at Catholic schoolgirls

The Protestants of N. Irelnad are a fine lot and I don’t believe that most Americans have any idea the depth of their venom and savegery. They have spent 900 years butchering men, women and children for the crime of being Catholic which continues to this very day.

In this country, religious discrimination is much more subtle. Protestants here are more civilized. However, Jack Chick gives us a good idea of what some of them think of us.
 
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EENS:
Vatican II is NOT infallible. Read here: coomaraswamy-catholic-writings.com/What%20Vatican%20II%20Teaches.htm#_ftn3

I would “cf. the teaching of invincible ignorance” if it existed before modernism, yet it did not; therefore, you will not find it in Tradition. God bless.
First of all, Vatican II was obviously an action of all of the bishops in union with the Pope, and hence its teachings are a function of the ordinary Magisterium, and hence are to be held as true by the Catholic faithful.

Secondly, Thomas Aquinas (of the thirteenth century) referred to the teaching of invincible ignorance, and as you know, modernism was a late nineteenth and early twentieth century heresy. So that teaching definitely predated modernism.

God bless you as well, EENS.
 
EENS,
You said:
It’s too bad Catholics nowadays do not believe Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus as all did unequivocally in times past.
From the Catechism of St. Pius X:
Q: Can the absence of Baptism be supplied in any other way?

A: The absence of Baptism can be supplied by martyrdom, which is called Baptism of Blood, or by an act of perfect love of God, or of contrition, along with the desire, at least implicit, of Baptism, and this is called Baptism of Desire. …

Q: Can one be saved outside the Catholic, Apostolic and Roman Church?
A: No, no one can be saved outside the Catholic, Apostolic Roman Church, just as no one could be saved from the flood outside the Ark of Noah, which was a figure of the Church. …
Q: But if a man through no fault of his own is outside the Church, can he be saved?

A: If he is outside the Church through no fault of his, that is, if he is in good faith, and if he has received Baptism, or at least has the implicit desire of Baptism; and if, moreover, he sincerely seeks the truth and does God’s will as best he can such a man is indeed separated from the body of the Church, but is united to the soul of the Church and consequently is on the way of salvation
It’s too bad that you presume to authentically interpret Catholic Tradition contrary to the Pope and the Bishops in communion with him, to which is vested the authentic magisterium.
 
EENS,

You said:
I would “cf. the teaching of invincible ignorance” if it existed before modernism, yet it did not; therefore, you will not find it in Tradition.
From Pope Pius IX (1846-1878).
“It is known to Us and to you that they who labor in **invincible ignorance **of our most holy religion and who, zealously keeping the natural law and its precepts engraved in the hearts of all by God, and being ready to obey God, live an honest and upright life, can, by the operating power of divine light and grace, attain eternal life” (From the Encyclical *Quanto conficiamure moerore, *1863, Denzinger 1677)
Pope St. Pius X quoted Pius IX quite favorably. Surely you are not charging Pius IX of modernism, are you?

Catholics ought to stick to the authentic magisterium’s interpretation of the infallible dogma despite your Feeneyist opinion to the contrary.
 
my issues are the same no matter if the person is protestant or catholic or worships my pet dog. If the person acts like they want to discuss and learn and they only want to condem and critique. That really bothers me to no end. I am also bothered when the other presents opinion as fact but my facts are called opinions. Finally, I really get agrivated by people who take things out of context hoping to confuse the issue or proove a point that is incorrect.

I do not get mad at protestants who want to save me. I get mad at people who relish their stupidity. I do not get mad at Catholics who hold to a point that is not consistant with Chruch teachings. I pray for them. I do not think that Protestants are heretics. The origional bunch who broke away for various reasons were, but their followers were misguided, honest souls who did not know any better. That is, except for the nobles who left the Church so that they could seize Church lands and holdings.
 
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ralphinal:
my issues are the same no matter if the person is protestant or catholic or worships my pet dog. If the person acts like they want to discuss and learn and they only want to condem and critique.

I find myself agreeing (eh, except for the part about the pet dog – that would be disturbing.) I guess my difficulty lies not so much with Protestants as with anti-Catholics. There is a difference between non-Catholics and anti-Catholics. I apologize for any offense I have caused.

I have met fine and gentle people who are not Catholic (or Christian) and Catholics who are not fine and gentle at all. Surely, we all have.

Okay, so I need help in coping with anti-Catholics.

Anyone?

God bless.
 
I too need help. As I have grown in my faith, my closest female friend has become a stranger to me. I did not recognize her Anti-Catholic sentiments before, but she bristles now anytime I discuss my faith (which is all the time). I don’t want to end the eleven year friendship, and I am praying for her, but I am bored discussing the trivial (make-up and nails), I strive to gossip no longer and the subjects that are important to me (pro-life issues, politics and religion) are a certain one sided conversation. She is a Christian, but seems to keep her faith at church and doesn’t share it with anyone.

Help anyone?

Jennifer
 
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yves:
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ralphinal:
my issues are the same no matter if the person is protestant or catholic or worships my pet dog. If the person acts like they want to discuss and learn and they only want to condem and critique.

I find myself agreeing (eh, except for the part about the pet dog – that would be disturbing.) I guess my difficulty lies not so much with Protestants as with anti-Catholics. There is a difference between non-Catholics and anti-Catholics. I apologize for any offense I have caused.

I have met fine and gentle people who are not Catholic (or Christian) and Catholics who are not fine and gentle at all. Surely, we all have.

Okay, so I need help in coping with anti-Catholics.

Anyone?

God bless.
Yes, me. I agree with you on this post and your original one. I, too, feel offended and angry towards anti-Catholics. They are so arrogant and they are so certain they are right and they are so wrong. They don’t even want to discuss issues, they just want to criticize. It’s a sport to them. They claim to be christians but they certainly don’t act like christians.

Someone touched on a point in an earlier post about how protestants did not actively leave the church like Luther did, but follow him now becuase they do not know any better. I have a similar question about protestant ministers (see the thread under non Catholic religions).
 
David F:
Looks like your thread has been hijacked yves. Sorry about that.

Your question seems to center on how to deal with taking a non-Catholic’s criticism personally. Is this correct? If so, have you posed this question to your pastor?

I know what you feel, because if I am going to be honest with you, I feel that pain as well when I feel the Church is being criticized. Over the years, that pain will go away when you grow in your relationship with Christ. As was suggested earlier, pray for love and understanding. Pray for peace in your hearts and for those who you come into contact with. Earnestly seek this love for ALL Christians and God will give it to you. For me, I am learning to distance my personal feelings more and instead, learning to see Christ in our Protestant brethren. This has helped and will help in our dialog between each other.

Lord give yves, the peace of mind and heart she seeks and the wisdom to understand Your will. Show her that You are present in everyone she meets throughout her day. Teach her to be patient with others but persistent with her witnessing. Jesus, I trust in you. We ask these things through Christ Our Lord, Amen.

Peace be with you Yves,
david
 
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