Protestants shouldn't upset me -- right?

[Little_Mary]

iguana27:

How do you know what Protestants want?

My goodness, hawkeye, iguana27 was awfully hard on you here and I see no reason why. I, for one, know that protestants do NOT want me to pray for them, especially if I am going to say a rosary or pray to Mary or a saint. I have gotten specific requests such as “OK, but only pray to God for me, not to Mary or anybody”. (oy vay)

Furthermore, I’ve never been to N. Ireland, but I can only imagine what it’s like there (maybe I really can’t) but I would certainly never insult you by pretending I did (Im’ not saying iguana pretended, I’m off to another subject here). God bless you for keeping the faith.

And like you, I fail to see what reading Angela’s Ashes has to do with this…

 

[yves]

David F:

Looks like your thread has been hijacked yves. Sorry about that.

Your question seems to center on how to deal with taking a non-Catholic’s criticism personally. Is this correct? If so, have you posed this question to your pastor?

I know what you feel, because if I am going to be honest with you, I feel that pain as well when I feel the Church is being criticized. Over the years, that pain will go away when you grow in your relationship with Christ. As was suggested earlier, pray for love and understanding. Pray for peace in your hearts and for those who you come into contact with. Earnestly seek this love for ALL Christians and God will give it to you. For me, I am learning to distance my personal feelings more and instead, learning to see Christ in our Protestant brethren. This has helped and will help in our dialog between each other.

Lord give yves, the peace of mind and heart she seeks and the wisdom to understand Your will. Show her that You are present in everyone she meets throughout her day. Teach her to be patient with others but persistent with her witnessing. Jesus, I trust in you. We ask these things through Christ Our Lord, Amen.

Peace be with you Yves,
david

This whole thread has shaken me and I wish I hadn’t started it. If I’m always quiet about my feelings, why change now? Your understanding and response is most welcome. Thank you for your advice and your prayers.

God bless you.

 

[ralphinal]

yves:

This whole thread has shaken me and I wish I hadn’t started it. If I’m always quiet about my feelings, why change now? Your understanding and response is most welcome. Thank you for your advice and your prayers.

God bless you.

Do not feel bad. We got to see that there are intolerent Catholics as well as antiCatholics. Pray for everyone. If you feel like defending the faith, do so. If not, pray for those who do

 

[iguana27]

If you truly believe that the RC Church is Christ’s Church on Earth, and that in it is preached the fullness of the Christian faith, you have a positive obligation to live out your witness to other Christians and non-Christians in love.

Tearing down the faith of people who are born into Protestantism is no way to reach them for Christ. Comparing all Protestants to bigots like Jack Chick is no way to reach them either. Making broad generalizations about whether or not they would like to be prayed for is wrong. Your anecdotal evidence is not an indictment of Protestants or their faith in the same way that sedevacantists do not represent the normal Catholic or his faith.

The reason these things are wrong is because they do not allow Protestants to see Catholicism for what it is : Christ’s Church on earth.

The Catholics I knew growing up were very much like a lot of posters on this board. They were right, and they didn’t give a damn about my salvation, because all they cared about was being right. My honest inquiries went unanswered. They didn’t seem to want me in their club.

Christ teaches us to love our enemies, pray for those who persecute you. There appear to be many Catholics who need a lot of Protestant prayers.

I sure am glad that I didn’t encounter this level of bigotry when I was going through RCIA (an invention of Vatican II, so I am sure that some of you think I am probably not Catholic anyway). I am thankful for the loving and kind witness of my faithful Catholic husband who cared for me, respected where I came from and loved me into the fullness of the faith.

Look at the Catechism’s view on this subject, prayerfully consider it, and ask the Holy Spirit to guide your conversations with Protestants.

If you do not respond to Protestants with sincere heartfelt genuine love, they are certainly justified in remaining outside the Church, and the burden of that choice will be on your soul.

 

[kellie]

Hi yves,

I live with a Protestant, my father.

And I am so much like you.

I argue with him on points of faith and teachings.

And I get angry at him, to the point where I get so upset for sinning(as anger is a sin), that I cry in to my pillow.

He attacks our church all the time with his silly generalisations.

All the stuff you have probably heard before, like we “worship” Mary, and we sit stand kneel too much,and we follow an Italian (even though Pope John Paul II isn’t Italian)

My father even had the nerve all these years to tell me that “you Catholics say the Lord’s Prayer wrong”. He was referring to the Protestant way of saying “for thine is the glory and power”.

It wasn’t until I started exploring my Faith this year, and started reading Scripture myself, and found it doesnt say anything like that in the Bible. It stops at “deliver us from evil.”

When I dared to show him my copy of the Bible, he was speechless, and got angry at me for proving him wrong, as I should respect him.

So I too get angry at Protestants, for their attacks on our religion, but I do have a lot of non-Catholic friends. We don’t talk religion too often though.

All the best yves.

Pray for them. Keep defending the faith. Argue with them civilly, and hope that the Holy Spirit will wake them up to the Truth.

Love Kellie

 

[hawkeye]

Little Mary:

My goodness, hawkeye, iguana27 was awfully hard on you here and I see no reason why. I, for one, know that protestants do NOT want me to pray for them, especially if I am going to say a rosary or pray to Mary or a saint. I have gotten specific requests such as “OK, but only pray to God for me, not to Mary or anybody”. (oy vay)

Furthermore, I’ve never been to N. Ireland, but I can only imagine what it’s like there (maybe I really can’t) but I would certainly never insult you by pretending I did (Im’ not saying iguana pretended, I’m off to another subject here). God bless you for keeping the faith.

And like you, I fail to see what reading Angela’s Ashes has to do with this…

Thanks for the moral support, I have nothing against Protestants, my mother was one although a convert.
Did you see on tv over there a few years ago of the Catholic school children trying to get to Holy Cross school in East Belfast which is a Protestant stronghold, west Belfast is Catholic.?
I have no problem with Protestants or any other religion or what the colour of their skin is, I really don’t care, but those scenes of little Catholic children have to walk past those hate filled Protestants wasn’t a pretty sight.
Cnn and many others were over here at the time what an ugly scene, humans really have went to the lower depths of depravity, I would never stop any child going to school no matter what religion they were.
Do you people over there realise that we have Catholic and Protestant bars,? sometimes they mix but it’s an exception to the rule.
I have Protestant friends but the Bible thumpers that stop us in the centre of the town and tell us were going to hell I can’t abide, these are the ones that can quote this part of scripture and that part of scripture but not too much Love.
God bless I shall pray for you :bowdown: and I never forget about Mary, she was the first Tabernacle on earth. Still haven’t heard what Angela’s Ashes has to do with any of this looking forward to insight.
Don’t worry about anyone being hard on me, I’ve been through the mill !!! by the way I don’t live in Belfast, 83 miles west to be more precise in county Fermanagh.

 

[hawkeye]

iguana27:

You are taking the actions of a few Protestants and making a blanket statement about all Protestants, which is offensive.

I personally know many Protestants, my family included, who love to have me pray with them and for them.

Prayer should not be used as a weapon in a debate anyway. I hope that you do pray for those you use this tactic on.

God bless,
Iguana

I did say I would pray for them, then you make much to do about nothing :crying:

 

[SPOKENWORD]

iguana27:

If you truly believe that the RC Church is Christ’s Church on Earth, and that in it is preached the fullness of the Christian faith, you have a positive obligation to live out your witness to other Christians and non-Christians in love.

Tearing down the faith of people who are born into Protestantism is no way to reach them for Christ. Comparing all Protestants to bigots like Jack Chick is no way to reach them either. Making broad generalizations about whether or not they would like to be prayed for is wrong. Your anecdotal evidence is not an indictment of Protestants or their faith in the same way that sedevacantists do not represent the normal Catholic or his faith.

The reason these things are wrong is because they do not allow Protestants to see Catholicism for what it is : Christ’s Church on earth.

The Catholics I knew growing up were very much like a lot of posters on this board. They were right, and they didn’t give a damn about my salvation, because all they cared about was being right. My honest inquiries went unanswered. They didn’t seem to want me in their club.

Christ teaches us to love our enemies, pray for those who persecute you. There appear to be many Catholics who need a lot of Protestant prayers.

I sure am glad that I didn’t encounter this level of bigotry when I was going through RCIA (an invention of Vatican II, so I am sure that some of you think I am probably not Catholic anyway). I am thankful for the loving and kind witness of my faithful Catholic husband who cared for me, respected where I came from and loved me into the fullness of the faith.

Look at the Catechism’s view on this subject, prayerfully consider it, and ask the Holy Spirit to guide your conversations with Protestants.

If you do not respond to Protestants with sincere heartfelt genuine love, they are certainly justified in remaining outside the Church, and the burden of that choice will be on your soul.

Iguana, Your post was very well written and of course inspired by the Holy Spirit. You speak in a spirit of love and I admire it.The problem with many people is the have a religious spirit and no matter what you say they are right. They do not want to be corrected when they are wrong and the spirit of pride creeps in. Instead of speaking in love they show hatred. How are they going to win people to Christ by the way they walk and talk? Let us be examples of Gods Love. God Bless.

 

[hawkeye]

condan:

Rev. Ian Paisely
Orangemen
Fecal matter thrown at Catholic schoolgirls

The Protestants of N. Irelnad are a fine lot and I don’t believe that most Americans have any idea the depth of their venom and savegery. They have spent 900 years butchering men, women and children for the crime of being Catholic which continues to this very day.

In this country, religious discrimination is much more subtle. Protestants here are more civilized. However, Jack Chick gives us a good idea of what some of them think of us.

Oliver Cromwell who was sent over here by the British to burn our Churches retreated back to England, and was asked why are they not defeated yet, his reply was something like this, " If I could only take that Rosary from their hands I would defeat them" sorry Ollie I still have my Rosary.:tiphat:

 

[Melchior]

Here is my honest answer, Yves. You should not look at Protestants as a monolithic group. I as a catholic (small “c”) minded protestant get frustrated when certain Protestant groups don’t baptize their babies, don’t believe Christ is present in the Eucharist and refuse to acknowledge Mary as the Theotokos who is highly honored. Heck, both Calvin and Luther believed she was ever-virgin unlike many protestants today. Add to the list all the dispensational end-times money making nonsense by the like of the “Left Behind” guys, and the charlatans on the Trinity Broadcasting Network, it is enough to make anyone go crazy.

So I think I know where you are coming from, even though I am a Protestant. On the other hand I am just as frustrated with liberal and nominal Catholics, Catholics who capitulate to modern atheistic theories like evolution and those who falsely malign other Christians based on ignorance instead of facts. So it cuts both ways for me. In fact I could add the Orthodox to the list.

You are not crazy but you should try not to dwell on it to much. As far as personal relationships go, focus on common ground. I love my Baptist brother who led me to Christ, but if we start discussing baptism and other issues I feel like wringing his neck because he is so stubborn and so wrong.

Please remember Protestants love Jesus as much as you and many are doing the best they can to follow Him the best they know how. So it really comes down to charity for your fellow Christian. If it still keeps bugging you it might help to read some primary Protestant sources on the issues that really bug you. With due respect to all here, not all Catholic sources about protestant beliefs are accurate or fair. That is why I come to you folks with questions about Catholicism instead of asking Presbyterians . That way you will be able to discuss and possibly refute certain claims with your knowledge and a gentle spirit.

I hope this is helpful.

Blessings,

Mel

 

[hawkeye]

Calvin:

You can pray for me anytime you want!

-C

Sure Calvin I will :bowdown:

 

[condan]

hawkeye:

Oliver Cromwell who was sent over here by the British to burn our Churches retreated back to England, and was asked why are they not defeated yet, his reply was something like this, " If I could only take that Rosary from their hands I would defeat them" sorry Ollie I still have my Rosary.:tiphat:

The Irish are the one people *never * defeated by the British.

Katherine Murphy
wife of John, mother of Connor and Aidan

 

[Calvin]

condan:

The Irish are the one people *never *defeated by the British.

… well the *one *people until 1781…

-C

 

[mizcebe]

I came to the Catholic Church a little more than 2 years ago. I was a Protestant. Somehow at 59 years old, I was totally ignorant of any bigotry toward Catholics. Most of my friends are Protestant – some are mainstream and some are fundamentalists.

The only friend to question my new faith is one who is a former Catholic! While I was at first nonplussed and annoyed at this, it has turned out to be a blessing. It has driven me to study about the Church. I have learned so much in the last couple of years and it has only reinforced my choice to be part of this magnificent Church. I have also amassed quite a little library of apologetics!

I presented each of my friends a card with the St. Francis peace prayer on it. It is my favorite and they all love it, too. We all pray for each other and I have never had a single friend put any restrictions on my prayers for them.

It’s sad that some of you have had such negative experiences. I have no magic answer as to how to cope with them. We are only human and can only do our best to keep the 4th Commandment and remember what the Bible tells us:

*“If I speak in the tongues of mortals and of angels, but do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal…Love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice in wrong-doing, but rejoices in the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends . But as for prophecies, they will come to an end; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will come to an end…And now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; and the greatest of these is love”(1Cor 13:1-13). *

Peace.

 

[hawkeye]

Calvin:

… well the *one *people until 1781…

-C

Anyway why me saying I’ll pray for you can turn into such a heated argument is beyond me, anyway you will soon have some more Philapino nurses arriving on your shore as they were petrol bombed out of Belfast and said they wouldn’t be coming back, also their apartment windows were smashed along with being verbally abused.
They said they have been allover the world and were never treated like this, anyway it’s East Belfast that theyre being kicked out of, I think it’s to do with them being Catholic, oh well it’s sad to see them leave as over here in the north west they are much better treated.
East Belfast is Protestant by the way, and this is my last posting on this thread as it’s getting out of hand

 

[Calvin]

hawkeye:

Anyway why me saying I’ll pray for you can turn into such a heated argument is beyond me, anyway you will soon have some more Philapino nurses arriving on your shore as they were petrol bombed out of Belfast and said they wouldn’t be coming back, also their apartment windows were smashed along with being verbally abused.
They said they have been allover the world and were never treated like this, anyway it’s East Belfast that theyre being kicked out of, I think it’s to do with them being Catholic, oh well it’s sad to see them leave as over here in the north west they are much better treated.
East Belfast is Protestant by the way, and this is my last posting on this thread as it’s getting out of hand

BTW 1781 was when the British surrendered to the United States at Yorktown thereby making two peoples who have never been defeated by the British: the Irish and the Americans.

-C

 

[yves]

iguana27:

I think it important to remember that for many Protestants, their religion was not a choice they made for themselves. We are all born into a context, a family environment, etc.

Just like Catholic who never really chose their faith after exploring all the others, most Protestants never explored Catholicism before choosing Protestantism.

You can help remedy this by sharing your faith publicly. Be prepared to give an answer for you faith and respond to Protestant queries with love and charity. Your love and prayers will bring souls into the fullness of the faith!

Pray that God will fill your heart with love for Protestants. I can tell that you are on the way.

God Bless,
Iguana

I don’t know how I missed your response. Thank you very much.

God bless you.

 

[yves]

Melchior:

Please remember Protestants love Jesus as much as you and many are doing the best they can to follow Him the best they know how. So it really comes down to charity for your fellow Christian. If it still keeps bugging you it might help to read some primary Protestant sources on the issues that really bug you. With due respect to all here, not all Catholic sources about protestant beliefs are accurate or fair. That is why I come to you folks with questions about Catholicism instead of asking Presbyterians . That way you will be able to discuss and possibly refute certain claims with your knowledge and a gentle spirit.

I hope this is helpful.

It’s so true that we are all trying to follow Jesus the best we know how. Thank you for taking the time to answer when you’ve had your hands full with the other thread. You are reliably wise and fair, which is why I asked your advice even as I recognized you are Protestant.

God bless you and yours.

Blessings,

Mel

 

[yves]

Melchior:

Please remember Protestants love Jesus as much as you and many are doing the best they can to follow Him the best they know how. So it really comes down to charity for your fellow Christian. If it still keeps bugging you it might help to read some primary Protestant sources on the issues that really bug you. With due respect to all here, not all Catholic sources about protestant beliefs are accurate or fair. That is why I come to you folks with questions about Catholicism instead of asking Presbyterians . That way you will be able to discuss and possibly refute certain claims with your knowledge and a gentle spirit.

I hope this is helpful.

Blessings,

Mel

It is so true that we are all following Jesus as best as we can. Thank you for taking the time to respond when you’ve been so busy with the other thread. You are reliably fair and wise, which is why I sought your advice.

God bless you and yours.

 

[Ann_Cheryl]

EENS:

No, protestants are NOT a part of the Mystical Body of Christ. The Church is the Mystical Body of Christ. Protestants are not a part of the Church, hence, they are not a part of the Body of Christ. Rather, they are heretics and cannot be saved unless they convert to the one True Church. God bless.

There is only ONE baptism. Baptism is the entry way into the Church and anyone who is validly baptised is part of the Mystical Body. They are part of the Church even though they might not realize it.

What you are stating was what Fr. Feeney was excomunicated for teaching. catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=1467

It has always been taught that those who know that the Catholic Church is the true Church and refuse to enter will be condemned.

Go to the online Catholic Encyclopedia under Church for a full explantion part of which I reproduce here:
It certainly does not mean that none can be saved except those who are in visible communion with the Church. The Catholic Church has ever taught that nothing else is needed to obtain justification than an act of perfect charity and of contrition. Whoever, under the impulse of actual grace, elicits these acts receives immediately the gift of sanctifying grace, and is numbered among the children of God. Should he die in these dispositions, he will assuredly attain heaven. It is true such acts could not possibly be elicited by one who was aware that God has commanded all to join the Church, and who nevertheless should willfully remain outside her fold. For love of God carries with it the practical desire to fulfill His commandments. But of those who die without visible communion with the Church, not all are guilty of willful disobedience to God’s commands. Many are kept from the Church by Ignorance