Protestants spend more time in Purgatory than Catholics

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Lil_Cat said:
So Protestant churches are Catholic Churches since there is no salvation outside the CC? :confused:
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No. You’re approaching this incorrectly. The Catholic Church is not simply the institution founded on the rock of St. Peter, although this dimension is essential to it.

The Catholic Church is the entire flock of Christ, which includes all those incorporated into Christ through baptism but not guilty of the sins of heresy or schism.

In a certain sense, the Church has a body (the institution and visible members), and a soul (its entire, sometimes implicit, membership).
 
Dauphin said:
No. You’re approaching this incorrectly. The Catholic Church is not simply the institution founded on the rock of St. Peter, although this dimension is essential to it.

The Catholic Church is the entire flock of Christ, which includes all those incorporated into Christ through baptism but not guilty of the sins of heresy or schism.

In a certain sense, the Church has a body (the institution and visible members), and a soul (its entire, sometimes implicit, membership).
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Aren’t heretics and schismics people who knowingly reject the CC? How are “Protestants” (or anyone who has never heard of the CC) in this day and age heretics, since most of us are born into whatever faith we currently practice? I guess the natural flow of this question would go to the Pope’s declaration that was quoted above. How would someone who didn’t know any better be sent to hell, and not at least purgatory for their beliefs (to get this thread back on track 👍)? Couldn’t the soul of the CC be people that aren’t defined as "Catholic?
 
Lil_Cat said:
So Protestant churches are Catholic Churches since there is no salvation outside the CC? :confused:
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Who said Protestant churches are Catholic Churches? I said a validly baptized infant is Catholic, even if he were baptized by a Protestant and born to Protestant parents…
 
Dauphin said:
Protestants go to hell, not purgatory.
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I’m appauled at such a statement. It reaks of a lack of knowledge of our catechism and the Church itself. Our catechism speaks that the possiblity of salvation exists for not only protestants but non-Christian people who are ignorant of Christ. We as Catholics have no right as well as no idea as to who is going to heaven or hell. Father Corapi is correct when he says: “Better to live as a good protestant than a lousy Catholic.”

I hope you don’t actually believe this and that you’re just trying, in a weird way, to be funny. I have known wonderful, caring, Christ-filled protestants who are much better people than myself, with deep faith in Christ, and I think they have a better chance at heaven than myself sometimes. Our Catholicism does not call us to Pharisaic condemnation of others but charity and love.
 
Lil_Cat said:
Aren’t heretics and schismics people who knowingly reject the CC? How are “Protestants” (or anyone who has never heard of the CC) in this day and age heretics, since most of us are born into whatever faith we currently practice? I guess the natural flow of this question would go to the Pope’s declaration that was quoted above. How would someone who didn’t know any better be sent to hell, and not at least purgatory for their beliefs (to get this thread back on track 👍)? Couldn’t the soul of the CC be people that aren’t defined as "Catholic?
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Umm, how can someone be a Protestant and NOT know about the Catholic Church? The definition of Protestantism is that they “protest” the Catholic religion…duh! Stop trying to twist infallibly defined dogmas into something that suits your taste, LilCat, and just accept it…you actually seem to be bordering on heresy.
 
gurneyhalleck1 said:
I’m appauled at such a statement. It reaks of a lack of knowledge of our catechism and the Church itself. Our catechism speaks that the possiblity of salvation exists for not only protestants but non-Christian people who are ignorant of Christ. We as Catholics have no right as well as no idea as to who is going to heaven or hell. Father Corapi is correct when he says: “Better to live as a good protestant than a lousy Catholic.”

I hope you don’t actually believe this and that you’re just trying, in a weird way, to be funny. I have known wonderful, caring, Christ-filled protestants who are much better people than myself, with deep faith in Christ, and I think they have a better chance at heaven than myself sometimes. Our Catholicism does not call us to Pharisaic condemnation of others but charity and love.
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Are you as appalled by THIS statement as much as you are by Dauphin’s?:
“The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.”
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(Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441

That’s an infallible statement, by the way. So it looks like Dauphin is correct.
 
You know the bottom line is… Jesus only knows. “Catholic” or “Protestant” are words which describe an individual’s concept of Christ. Look at the book of Mathew(I think it’s Chapter 5)… the criteria for our eternal blessing or condemnation are: when I was thirsty - you fed me. When I was naked - you clothed me.
John of the Cross says in the evening of life we will be judged by how well we have loved. If a non-Catholic Christian lives a life of virtue to the best of his ability… I can only see that Jesus will be very happy with his soul in eternity. I sincerely believe in the bride of Christ which I believe to be the Catholic Church, but I really must say I’ve met many wonderful people who love Jesus who don’t consider themselves ‘Catholic’. At the end of the day I can only leave the business of judging souls to the Good God. It is best to edify our Protestant brothers and sisters and hope that they too will overwhelm us with their kindness.
Pax et bonum
 
gurneyhalleck1 said:
I’m appauled at such a statement. It reaks of a lack of knowledge of our catechism and the Church itself. Our catechism speaks that the possiblity of salvation exists for not only protestants but non-Christian people who are ignorant of Christ. We as Catholics have no right as well as no idea as to who is going to heaven or hell. Father Corapi is correct when he says: “Better to live as a good protestant than a lousy Catholic.”
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It’s simply not true that the Catechism overturned Catholic doctrine on this matter. The Catechism wouldn’t dare say that someone guilty of the sin of schism or heresy can be saved, since this is contrary to Catholic dogma.

What you’re referring to is the teaching on invincible ignorance, which is perfectly correct. If someone is invincibly ignorant of Catholic doctrine, and genuinely seeks to do God’s will, we can hope that they have the grace of baptism conferred upon them through a baptism of desire, and so are incorporated into the Catholic Church before death.

Again, there is no salvation outside the Church. To say otherwise is to deny Catholic dogma.
I hope you don’t actually believe this and that you’re just trying, in a weird way, to be funny. I have known wonderful, caring, Christ-filled protestants who are much better people than myself, with deep faith in Christ, and I think they have a better chance at heaven than myself sometimes. Our Catholicism does not call us to Pharisaic condemnation of others but charity and love.
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The definition of Charity is to love others enough to hope genuinely for their salvation. Since the Catholic Church has defined infallibly that there is no salvation outside of Her, it is the minimum requirement to warn protestants and others of this reality.

Anything less is uncharitable.
 
I don’t see in which sense the OP’s statement should be obvious.

The Catholic Christian abides in the Institution which has received the “fullness of Truth”. Meaning that a Catholic has the fullness of the means of salvation available to him:

“The measure you use against others will be the measure used against you”

With the fullness of means at our disposal, we have much less claim to ignorance and therefore, in a sense even more room for willful neglect and sin.

Secondly, just because the Catholic Church has received the fullness of Truth does not mean that a given Catholic, at a specific instance, necessarily lives out more fully God’s desire for him nor that he abides in greater depth in the life of Christ given up once and for all.
 
Vivat_Jesus1 said:
Umm, how can someone be a Protestant and NOT know about the Catholic Church? The definition of Protestantism is that they “protest” the Catholic religion…duh! Stop trying to twist infallibly defined dogmas into something that suits your taste, LilCat, and just accept it…you actually seem to be bordering on heresy.
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But since I am a “Protestant” that is trying to understand the CC more, I’m a heretic anyway and have no chance at salvation, so its all good!!

And with this, I bow out.
 
Lil_Cat said:
But since I am a “Protestant” that is trying to understand the CC more, I’m a heretic anyway and have no chance at salvation, so its all good!!

And with this, I bow out.
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That’s a caricature. As long as you’re alive, God can bring you to salvation.
 
Dauphin said:
👍

“The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the “eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matthew 25:41), unless before death they are joined with Her.” - Pope Eugene IV, Cantate Domino.

That’s as official as it gets.
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um, I looked that up in the bible, thats not what it says.
 
Dauphin said:
41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
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You added a lot of stuff on your post to that, or am I reading it wrong?
 
Dauphin said:
The Pope quoted that part of scripture. You can see the quotation marks. 😛

Everything surrounding it, though, are the words of Pope Eugene.
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and? I do not care that a pope thinks I am going to hell. I have had people tell me I would be in juvee before I was 15, I am 15, not their, I will worship Christ, and ignore this man, if Christ tells me to listen to him, then I will.
 
ChristianKnight said:
and? I do not care that a pope thinks I am going to hell. I have had people tell me I would be in juvee before I was 15, I am 15, not their, I will worship Christ, and ignore this man, if Christ tells me to listen to him, then I will.
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Christ happened to have founded a Church on a guy called St. Peter.

“This man” was one of his successors.
 
Dauphin said:
Christ happened to have founded a Church on a guy called St. Peter.

“This man” was one of his successors.
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The pope is a man, don’t you agree?

The rock thing doesn’t make sense to me, after reading it a dozen times over.
 
ChristianKnight said:
The pope is a man, don’t you agree?
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Sure. St. Peter was a man too. He was infinitely unworthy to have the dignity of the Papacy conferred upon him, but Christ did it anyway.

Often, God uses imperfect tools to do his will.
 
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