Protestants spend more time in Purgatory than Catholics

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and? I do not care that a pope thinks I am going to hell.
It is not the pope saying that you will go to hell. What the church teaches (not just one man) is that those who FULLY KNOW and completely understand about Catholicism, and yet reject it, are likely doomed to hell, although only God can know what is in their heart for sure. Those who have never heard of the Catholic Church, or who don’t really understand it fully still have a chance at salvation, by following what they DO know about God to the best of their ability. However, if they are indeed saved, it is still through the one church that God founded, the Catholic Church, because they are the ones who passed on full knowledge of how to do so.
I have had people tell me I would be in juvee before I was 15, I am 15, not their.
I applaud your efforts at keeping to a good path in life! 👍
I will worship Christ, and ignore this man, if Christ tells me to listen to him, then I will.
Then the most important thing you can do is start reading. Read the Bible. Read the Catechism. Read Catholicism for Dummies, and read the Early Church Fathers. Then, when you have done that, you should have the basic information with which to make an informed decision.
 
Incorrect!!! There were several versions of the septuagint and the earliest manuscripts did not include the DCs. Jerome even commented that they were good reading but not useful for doctrine as did the early Popes.
Show me your sources on these early manuscirpts.

As for St. Jerome, he submitted to the authority of the Church and when he translated the Greek and Hebrew text into Latin (the Vulgate) he wrote in the Deutorocanonical Books.
 
The pope is a man, don’t you agree?
Yes, just like Peter, the Apostles, Joseph, and all the other important Biblical figures.
The rock thing doesn’t make sense to me, after reading it a dozen times over.
What were you reading? The Catholic Answers library article? I can refer you to some other explanations…
 
Sure. St. Peter was a man too. He was infinitely unworthy to have the dignity of the Papacy conferred upon him, but Christ did it anyway.

Often, God uses imperfect tools to do his will.
We are all imperfect, but you know that, I hope every Christian does, even the ones that are going to hell lol

Peter seems to be a good guy, no offense to you, but I mean, the rock thing I don’t see how that established the Papacy.

@RollTide, thanks, I get in trouble a lot, but thats what a lot of stuff is for, to pre-occupy me.

Isn’t their a saying, idle hands are the devil’s tools.
 
So, what I hear you saying is that the CC is divine or God. Ian’t that against the first commandment?

Again what I hear you saying is that Jesus sacrifice for our sins on the cross wasn’t quite enough, and there is still something we have to do to earn our own salvation. How is that a gift? John 3:16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Well, it does say in verse 23 that the rich man is in hell, but it also says in verse 22 that Lazarus is carried to the bosum of Abraham. Obviously this is a parable and not to be taken literally.

I don’t beleive that this is implying that there is hope for forgiveness of sins after death at all. I beleive that this is emphasizing the fact that just as you can no longer receive forgiveness after death ie. Your fate is sealed at death. You cannot receive forgiveness for blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. ie. Forgiveness will not be received if it is not asked for.

In Christ Richard
Christ conferred his divine authority given him by the Father on his apostles to make visible decisions on earth that will be ratified in heaven [Mt 16:19; 18:18]. And Jesus told his apostles: “He who hears you, hears me” [Lk 10:16]. The one, visible Church was founded by Christ on his apostles. She is a gift from God given to us through Christ but kept in the custody of our Lord’s shepherds and teachers [Lk 22:29].This divinely ordained authority was transferred from the apostles to their successors. The mandate of the divine office to preach and administer the sacraments is to last until the end of time, not until the death of the last apostle [Mt 28:20].

Paul and Timothy, for instance, were not part of the original twelve, but the apostolic authority to preach the Word of God and convey the sacraments of the Church was transferred to them by "the laying on of hands " [Acts 13:1-3].Indeed, the Sacrament of Ordination was even necessary for Paul, who was much later chosen by Christ himself [Acts 9: 17-19]. This transference of apostolic authority was instituted by our Lord in accordance with his Father’s will, and so the divine office Paul speaks of (Col 1:25) is sacerodotal by nature. Paul exhorts Timothy to be careful in the rite of laying on of hands, for this divine gift of authority must not be used indiscriminately [1 Tim 5:2].

When Paul calls his position a “divine office”, he implies it has successors and does not end with the death of any apostle or successor after him. When I say that a dogmatic declaration of the Catholic Church amounts to an explicitly revealed divine truth,I mean that God has commissioned certain individuals to preach the Word, having sealed them with the Holy Spirit (by the laying on of hands in succession) as a guarantee that the truth will be infallibly taught [Jn 16:12-13; 2 Cor 1:21-22; 1 Tim 3:1]. The Apostles and their valid successors - the Episcopacy of the Church - are appointed guardians of the truths contained in the written word of God. Scripture must be interpreted in light of Tradition by the rightfully commissioned teaching authority (Magisterium) of the Church.

Every private individual who happens to pick up a copy of the KJV Bible at his nearest book store, appoint himself a minister of the Word, and form a congregation or join a denomination, has absolutely no divine authority to publicly declare: “There is no such place as Purgatory.” This doctrine has been taught by the Church since apostolic time, more explicitly by the early Church Fathers, who received the teachings and authority of the Apostles by their succession. Apostolic Succession has been with the Catholic Church ever since Christ founded her on his apostles.

“We are not to credit these men, nor go out from the first and the ecclesiastical tradition; nor to believe otherwise than as the churches of God have by succession transmitted to us.”
Origen, ‘Commentary on Matthew’ [post A.D.244]

“I think that the noble athletes of God, who have wrestled all their lives with the invisible enemies, after they have escaped all of their persecutions and have come to the end of life, are examined by the prince of this world; and if they are found to have any wounds from their wrestling, any stains or effects of sin, they are detained. If, however, they are found unwounded and without stain, they are, as unconquered, brought by Christ into their rest.”
Basil, ‘Homilies on the Psalms, 7:2’ [ante A.D.370]

For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. he was put to death in the body but made alive in the spirit, through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison.
1 Peter 3, 19

The Hebrew word ‘Sheol’ can be translated “Hell”: a temporary place of torment for the unrightous dead in contrast with ‘Geheena’ - the permanent lake of fire reserved for those unrighteous (the rich young man) who await final judgment and damnation. The other side of ‘Sheol’ (paradise), across the impassable chasm, is reserved for the righteous dead (the ‘type’ of beggar and the good thief) who still await judgment in the ‘hope’ of being resurrected from the dead. There is no hope left for the unrepentant sinner who is counted among the unrighteous dead and destined for ‘Geheena’. :nope: The righteous dead will be found unwounded and without stain of sin and its effects at the Final Judgment after having been purified by fire and declared perfect. [Mt 5:48; Heb 12:23; Rev 21:27]. Meanwhile Lazarus can still feel love and compassion for his brothers until he is cast into the burning lake of fire, where moths and rust consume, reserved for the serpent - the devil - and his offspring [Mt 25:41;Gen 3:15].

“I tell you the truth, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.”
Matthew 5:26

The concept of Purgatory was unacceptable to Luther for it conflicted with his unbiblical doctrines ‘sola fide’ and ‘sola Christus’ [Col 1, 24].

Yet Paul teaches us that our works play a vital part in determining our salvation. We are rewarded for our good works but punished for our bad works unless we repent. But God finally judges us after we die at the Last Day. Thus there remains an expiation of temporal punishment for our sins in the afterlife after we have contritely confessed them and have been saved by having repented before we die. The repentant sinner must pass through a purifying fire to expiate himself for his sins in like manner his bad works had passed through the fire of passion, before he can be judged worthy to enter Heaven, now that he has been saved by his sincere act of contrition [Psalm 51]. Not all souls remain in Purgatory until Judgment Day. The souls of saints and martyrs go directly to heaven where they await the Day of Resurrection. The length of time one spends in Purgatory is based on the extent of the wound and the measure of the stain of sin on one’s soul. The beggar in our Lord’s parable was in the comforting bosom of Abraham, typifying one who may just have been purified and judged worthy to now enter heaven.

If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay, or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man’s work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping from the flames. Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s spirit lives in you? If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him; for God’s temple is sacred, and you are that temple.
1 Corinthians 3, 12-17

The righteousness of Christ is not imputed to our account. If it were, then Purgatory would hold no place in God’s plan of salvation.

Pax vobiscum
Good Fella :cool:
 
But there is no purgatory!!!

The doctrine of purgatory is a false doctrine.
 
Christ conferred his divine authority given him by the Father on his apostles to make visible decisions on earth that will be ratified in heaven [Mt 16:19; 18:18]. And Jesus told his apostles: “He who hears you, hears me” [Lk 10:16]. The one, visible Church was founded by Christ on his apostles. She is a gift from God given to us through Christ but kept in the custody of our Lord’s shepherds and teachers [Lk 22:29].This divinely ordained authority was transferred from the apostles to their successors. The mandate of the divine office to preach and administer the sacraments is to last until the end of time, not until the death of the last apostle [Mt 28:20].

Paul and Timothy, for instance, were not part of the original twelve, but the apostolic authority to preach the Word of God and convey the sacraments of the Church was transferred to them by "the laying on of hands " [Acts 13:1-3].Indeed, the Sacrament of Ordination was even necessary for Paul, who was much later chosen by Christ himself [Acts 9: 17-19]. This transference of apostolic authority was instituted by our Lord in accordance with his Father’s will, and so the divine office Paul speaks of (Col 1:25) is sacerodotal by nature. Paul exhorts Timothy to be careful in the rite of laying on of hands, for this divine gift of authority must not be used indiscriminately [1 Tim 5:2].

When Paul calls his position a “divine office”, he implies it has successors and does not end with the death of any apostle or successor after him. When I say that a dogmatic declaration of the Catholic Church amounts to an explicitly revealed divine truth,I mean that God has commissioned certain individuals to preach the Word, having sealed them with the Holy Spirit (by the laying on of hands in succession) as a guarantee that the truth will be infallibly taught [Jn 16:12-13; 2 Cor 1:21-22; 1 Tim 3:1]. The Apostles and their valid successors - the Episcopacy of the Church - are appointed guardians of the truths contained in the written word of God. Scripture must be interpreted in light of Tradition by the rightfully commissioned teaching authority (Magisterium) of the Church.

Every private individual who happens to pick up a copy of the KJV Bible at his nearest book store, appoint himself a minister of the Word, and form a congregation or join a denomination, has absolutely no divine authority to publicly declare: “There is no such place as Purgatory.” This doctrine has been taught by the Church since apostolic time, more explicitly by the early Church Fathers, who received the teachings and authority of the Apostles by their succession. Apostolic Succession has been with the Catholic Church ever since Christ founded her on his apostles.

“We are not to credit these men, nor go out from the first and the ecclesiastical tradition; nor to believe otherwise than as the churches of God have by succession transmitted to us.”
Origen, ‘Commentary on Matthew’ [post A.D.244]

“I think that the noble athletes of God, who have wrestled all their lives with the invisible enemies, after they have escaped all of their persecutions and have come to the end of life, are examined by the prince of this world; and if they are found to have any wounds from their wrestling, any stains or effects of sin, they are detained. If, however, they are found unwounded and without stain, they are, as unconquered, brought by Christ into their rest.”
Basil, ‘Homilies on the Psalms, 7:2’ [ante A.D.370]

For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. he was put to death in the body but made alive in the spirit, through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison.
1 Peter 3, 19

The Hebrew word ‘Sheol’ can be translated “Hell”: a temporary place of torment for the unrightous dead in contrast with ‘Geheena’ - the permanent lake of fire reserved for those unrighteous (the rich young man) who await final judgment and damnation. The other side of ‘Sheol’ (paradise), across the impassable chasm, is reserved for the righteous dead (the ‘type’ of beggar and the good thief) who still await judgment in the ‘hope’ of being resurrected from the dead. There is no hope left for the unrepentant sinner who is counted among the unrighteous dead and destined for ‘Geheena’. :nope: The righteous dead will be found unwounded and without stain of sin and its effects at the Final Judgment after having been purified by fire and declared perfect. [Mt 5:48; Heb 12:23; Rev 21:27]. Meanwhile Lazarus can still feel love and compassion for his brothers until he is cast into the burning lake of fire, where moths and rust consume, reserved for the serpent - the devil - and his offspring [Mt 25:41;Gen 3:15].

“I tell you the truth, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.”
Matthew 5:26

The concept of Purgatory was unacceptable to Luther for it conflicted with his unbiblical doctrines ‘sola fide’ and ‘sola Christus’ [Col 1, 24].

Yet Paul teaches us that our works play a vital part in determining our salvation. We are rewarded for our good works but punished for our bad works unless we repent. But God finally judges us after we die at the Last Day. Thus there remains an expiation of temporal punishment for our sins in the afterlife after we have contritely confessed them and have been saved by having repented before we die. The repentant sinner must pass through a purifying fire to expiate himself for his sins in like manner his bad works had passed through the fire of passion, before he can be judged worthy to enter Heaven, now that he has been saved by his sincere act of contrition [Psalm 51]. Not all souls remain in Purgatory until Judgment Day. The souls of saints and martyrs go directly to heaven where they await the Day of Resurrection. The length of time one spends in Purgatory is based on the extent of the wound and the measure of the stain of sin on one’s soul. The beggar in our Lord’s parable was in the comforting bosom of Abraham, typifying one who may just have been purified and judged worthy to now enter heaven.

If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay, or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man’s work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping from the flames. Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s spirit lives in you? If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him; for God’s temple is sacred, and you are that temple.
1 Corinthians 3, 12-17

The righteousness of Christ is not imputed to our account. If it were, then Purgatory would hold no place in God’s plan of salvation.

Pax vobiscum
Good Fella :cool:
with a screename of Good Fella, Id be afraid to respond…I might get whacked!
 
  1. This I would take as a much more charitable stance than “there is no salvation outside the Church”. And with no sarcasm whatever, I thank you for that.
the Church does NOT teach that those outside the Church cannot be saved…never has taught that…
  1. Are you, then, saying that those of us who do believe that we must confess and strive to not sin, that salvation can be lost if our faith becomes dead, and strive to do the good works Christ puts before us, will spend less time there than an OSASer, even though non-catholic?
i don’t understand this. those who believe and give up sin can be saved… If they go away from Christ… but not entirely… they can still make it to Purgatory… God only knows, really…
i don’t know who said that… but no one knows what one will go through when one dies… so why take chances??
thecoach wrote:
If distracted uses the KJV, then most likely he won’t use Macabees.
True enough… but i was referring to NT passages…

Also, distracted is not a he…
 
I’m sure you would agree that in Heaven there is no suffering and in Hell the souls of the damned feel no compassion for each other or for those still living in this world, since compassion is a grace from God and those in Hell are deprived of God’s grace. If this is true, and you agree, please tell us where the deceased rich young man is as he feels compassion for his surviving brothers and desires to warn them of his place of suffering so that they don’t share his eternal fate. Is he in Heaven, Hell, or Purgatory? Obviously he isn’t in Heaven, since he’s suffering and wants to warn his brothers. And he can’t be in Hell for he feels love and compassion for them. So, then, where is he if there’s no such place as Purgatory? 🤷 [Lk 16, 19-31]. thanks for bringing this up. 🙂
Jesus warns that anyone who says a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven in this life or the next (‘mellonti’ = afterlife) [Mt 12, 32].
 
Also, distracted is not a he…
Sorry, I had no way of knowing.
the Church does NOT teach that those outside the Church cannot be saved…never has taught that…
unam sanctum
Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff
I was referring to this, but I’m happy to here you say what you said.
i don’t understand this. those who believe and give up sin can be saved…
I was speaking of those who hold OSAS.
this information totally conflicts with what i have read from Catholic sources… I have had enoguh of being lied to. so i will stikc to those sources, thank you.
Could you please list said sources so I can read them?

Jon
 
with a screename of Good Fella, Id be afraid to respond…I might get whacked!
“Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather be afraid of the one who can destroy both soul and body in hell.”
Matthew 10, 28

Pax vobiscum
Good Fella 😉
 
this information totally conflicts with what i have read from Catholic sources… I have had enoguh of being lied to. so i will stikc to those sources, thank you.
newadvent.org/cathen/15367a.htm
Luther’s Biblical translations, begun in 1522, when he issued his New Testament, and carried on to 1545, when he finished the deuterocanonical books and the first complete edition of his Bible, have retained a strong hold on German and other Protestants and by many are esteemed as little less than inspired. He saw to many corrections and revisions himself, and his work went through some ten editions in his own lifetime.
While the date of completion is in conflict with my link, this Catholic source confirms Luther did translate the entire Bible, including the DC books. I still look forward to reading your sources.

Jon
 
But there is no purgatory!!!

The doctrine of purgatory is a false doctrine.
So is Sola Scriptura.:whistle:

…What?..You say it is biblical?..Oh, then list the verses here then so I can look it up myself:
By the way, after the last Apostle died in A.D. 100 and before the Bible was officially compiled in the late fourth century, what did the early Christians use as their sole rule of faith?
 
i wish i could remember where i heard that, but it makes sense because Protestants, generally speaking (especially those who live by OSAS) make a lot of “excuses” for their sins and bad behavior… They think they don’t have to “pay” for then because Jesus paid the price… What they don’t realize is that sin causes an ugly stain on the soul that will keep the soul from entrance into Heaven - until it is wiped away… (by the application of Christ’s Blood atonement)… on this earth and/or in Purgatory…

Revelation says that “no unclean thing will enter Heaven” (21:27)…

(1 Cor 3:13, St. Matthew 18:23, St. Matthew 12:32, etc…)

They don’t seem to believe that what Christ did on Calvary actually has to be APPLIED…

It is like being given a nutritious, delicious meal… and not making a move to eat it because you think… “I don’t need to… i will remain healthy indefinitely anyway…”
Well…at least we’ll be amongst friends.
 
It is not the pope saying that you will go to hell. What the church teaches (not just one man) is that those who FULLY KNOW and completely understand about Catholicism, and yet reject it, are likely doomed to hell, although only God can know what is in their heart for sure. Those who have never heard of the Catholic Church, or who don’t really understand it fully still have a chance at salvation, by following what they DO know about God to the best of their ability. However, if they are indeed saved, it is still through the one church that God founded, the Catholic Church, because they are the ones who passed on full knowledge of how to do so.

I applaud your efforts at keeping to a good path in life! 👍

Then the most important thing you can do is start reading. Read the Bible. Read the Catechism. Read Catholicism for Dummies, and read the Early Church Fathers. Then, when you have done that, you should have the basic information with which to make an informed decision.
Umm, actually you don’t have to “fully know” about Catholicism to go to hell…if you are outside the Catholic Church, you cannot go to heaven, period. It doesn’t require an active rejection of Catholicism to be damned. We’re not just judged on what we know but what we SHOULD have known.
 
Umm, actually you don’t have to “fully know” about Catholicism to go to hell…if you are outside the Catholic Church, you cannot go to heaven, period. It doesn’t require an active rejection of Catholicism to be damned. We’re not just judged on what we know but what we SHOULD have known.
I was under the impression that the heretic charge was not applied to most Protestants today because they were born into their faiths - they didn’t actively reject Church doctrine, their ancestors did. Therefore, provided that their baptisms were Trinitarian, they had a shot at heaven. Granted, they do not have the fullness of truth, but what they do have is from the Catholic Church.

Now if I were to leave the Catholic Church, that would be a different story and would put my soul in danger.
 
I was under the impression that the heretic charge was not applied to most Protestants today because they were born into their faiths - they didn’t actively reject Church doctrine, their ancestors did. Therefore, provided that their baptisms were Trinitarian, they had a shot at heaven. Granted, they do not have the fullness of truth, but what they do have is from the Catholic Church.

Now if I were to leave the Catholic Church, that would be a different story and would put my soul in danger.
Not being guilty of heresy is not a guarantee of salvation. Ignorance isn’t a ticket to heaven.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by distracted View Post
i wish i could remember where i heard that, but it makes sense because Protestants, generally speaking (especially those who live by OSAS) make a lot of “excuses” for their sins and bad behavior… They think they don’t have to “pay” for then because Jesus paid the price… What they don’t realize is that sin causes an ugly stain on the soul that will keep the soul from entrance into Heaven - until it is wiped away… (by the application of Christ’s Blood atonement (on this earth and/or in Purgatory)…

Revelation says that “no unclean thing will enter Heaven” (21:27)…

(1 Cor 3:13, St. Matthew 18:23, St. Matthew 12:32, etc…) .
A) There is no such thing as Purgatory.

B) How can you possibly lift an ego that large? Where do you get off with your condemnations? Best keep you mind at home, the RCC will have much to answer for.
I completely agree with you, the coach.
Where do they get off saying to us born again christians that we are going to spend time in purgatory?!!! Are you kidding me. That just makes me mad. “They” think that going to purgatory is going to cleanse their sins before they get to heaven. That is a joke and they’re being taught by a church, not by the Word of God. Unbelievable. They’re taking people straight to hell with those sayings and they don’t even know it. Plus, I guess they’ve never read the scripture where it says in Hebrews 9:27, 28 -
“Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,
so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people.”
You don’t go to purgatory when you die, that goes for all people. When you die, you’re either going to heaven or straight to hell. Jesus died once for your sins, you have to ask for forgiveness, not from Mary, not from the saints or to a mortal man, but Jesus Christ himself. It says it right there in the Bible.
You can’t believe what a church teaches you if it doesn’t line up with the Word.
Tell God that he didn’t sacrifice his Only Begotten Son enough just for you to believe that going to some place called “purgatory” that doesn’t even exist, to purge you from your sins. Jesus paid the Price.
BTW, people in general have to ask for forgiveness from their sins and then you make a effort to do better in that area in their life and not go back to that sin. You have to live for Jesus and accept him into your life before you can even go to heaven.
 
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