Protestants spend more time in Purgatory than Catholics

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Vivat_Jesus1 said:
…if you are outside the Catholic Church, you cannot go to heaven, period. It doesn’t require an active rejection of Catholicism to be damned. .
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this is not what the Church teaches… it teaches that it is difficult to get to Heaven without being a member of His Church, but it is not entirley impossible… Also the Church teaches that members of Protestant “churches” can be saved if they are honestly ignorant of the true teachings of the Churhc, if they honestly believe it is not the right one… But… they do spend more time in Purgatory… For one thing, no one prays for them after they die… at least their Prot family members, etc… don’t
 
Hisalone said:
That is total bunk.
This a different gospel and thus heresy.
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vivatJesus1 is not correct… You can be saved outside the Catholic Church… it is just more difficult… You can be saved if not Catholic if you honestly do not believe / know the Church’s teachings… If you know the Catholic Church is the right one & reject it, that is a different story…
 
i go to Mass every day, hear and keep the Word of God to the best of my ability… I have no unconfessed mortal sins on my soul…

And yet when i am in the Presence of Christ, i see my dire need of purification… My mind is full of worldly concerns… (etc, etc…) Actually, i can’t begin to put into words what goes on with me there…

I’m trying to make the point that we ALL need purification… Does God expect for us to become so holy we are “God”?? No, but he did say Be perfect as your father in Heaven is perfect…

He said that the way to eternal life is NARROW & that there are FEW who find it…
 
distracted said:
this is not what the Church teaches… it teaches that it is difficult to get to Heaven without being a member of His Church, but it is not entirley impossible… Also the Church teaches that members of Protestant “churches” can be saved if they are honestly ignorant of the true teachings of the Churhc, if they honestly believe it is not the right one… But… they do spend more time in Purgatory… For one thing, no one prays for them after they die… at least their Prot family members, etc… don’t
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Wow Distracted…your screen name suits you. The Church teaches that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church. Period. It doesn’t teach that there is ALMOST no salvation outside the Church, or that it is HARDER to be saved outside of the Church…but that “Outside the Catholic Church there is NO SALVATION.” Furthermore, the Church of Christ, or Mystical Body of Christ rather, and the Roman Catholic Church are one and the same…and thus one must belong to the visible Roman Catholic Church to be saved.
 
distracted said:
vivatJesus1 is not correct… You can be saved outside the Catholic Church… it is just more difficult… You can be saved if not Catholic if you honestly do not believe / know the Church’s teachings… If you know the Catholic Church is the right one & reject it, that is a different story…
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You are a heretic and your claim is not supported by authoritative Church teaching.

There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved." (Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215.)​

“We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302.)​

“The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)​

There are a lot of folks that honestly don’t believe the Catholic Church is true…and they are honestly WRONG. Ignorance is not a ticket to heaven.
 
Vivat_Jesus1 said:
Wow Distracted…your screen name suits you. The Church teaches that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church. Period. It doesn’t teach that there is ALMOST no salvation outside the Church, or that it is HARDER to be saved outside of the Church…but that “Outside the Catholic Church there is NO SALVATION.” Furthermore, the Church of Christ, or Mystical Body of Christ rather, and the Roman Catholic Church are one and the same…and thus one must belong to the visible Roman Catholic Church to be saved.
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Christ teaches differently. A clear indication that you teach “another Gospel” a false gospel and are the one who is a heretic.
 
Hisalone said:
Christ teaches differently. A clear indication that you teach “another Gospel” a false gospel and are the one who is a heretic.
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Wrong again, “Hisalone”! Jesus Christ founded the Catholic Church alone and entrusted to her for all time the “faith once delivered to the faith.” He often spoke of the Catholic Church as His own flock, of which He is shepherd; He said that whoever will not hear the Church, let Him be treated as a publican or a heathen. Christ founded the Roman Catholic Church, and purchased her with His own blood. Jesus did not start a Church so that membership in it could be optional…

St. Paul, by the way (who warned us against receiving another gospel) was a Catholic, as were all of the rest of the Apostles. And so it stands that you are a heretic, are outside of the Church, and must repent and convert to the Roman Catholic Church or you cannot be saved.
 
Hisalone said:
Christ teaches differently. A clear indication that you teach “another Gospel” a false gospel and are the one who is a heretic.
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Where did Christ teach differently anyway? I’d like to see some evidence. You must not be reading the New Testament, because Christ says that the way to salvation is narrow and few there are that find it…He also said there is one flock, one shepherd. That one flock is the Catholic Church; the Shepherd of course is Jesus Christ. Do you honestly think you can be saved if you are outside Christ’s fold?
 
Vivat_Jesus1 said:
Where did Christ teach differently anyway? I’d like to see some evidence. You must not be reading the New Testament, because Christ says that the way to salvation is narrow and few there are that find it…He also said there is one flock, one shepherd. That one flock is the Catholic Church; the Shepherd of course is Jesus Christ. Do you honestly think you can be saved if you are outside Christ’s fold?
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So if you feel so strongly about it, why do you continue to respond to the heretics? We know how you feel, and it is obvious condemning isn’t an issue with you. I also notice how you did not address the Vatican II proclomations about seperated brethren, and all of you references are over 600 years old. Was Vatican II false?
 
I know what the OP is talking about. As I understand it, a Protestant writting against the falsities of the Catholic Church (I read this once, long ago) and claimed that Bishops or Cardinals spend the most time in Purgatory according to…something he read. Whatever I was reading came back with, ‘actually, Protestants spend the most time in Purgatory,…’ and I think that was said by an aparition of some saint BECAUSE they typically have Protestant friends and family and have nobody to pray or do charitible works for them because they don’t believe they need to.

I only made it as page two, so, maybe this was confirmed earlier, but, it’s now set in stone with my post which confirms:
–I think I read something about this
–A Protestant said something about those in the Middle Management offices of Catholocism
–A Catholic apologist said Protestants are in it for the long haul in Purgatory because nobody in Protestantism believes in Catholocism.
–Anonymous Catholic Apologist may or may not have based this on an apparition from some nameless saint, which may or may not have been approved…

…This is rock solid, this is.
 
Priscilla_Ann said:
You are correct! I have a copy of The Jewish Study Bible, (published by Oxford University Press) - featuring the Jewish Publication Society Tanakh Translation (ISBN# 978-0-19-529751-5). Macabbees and the other deuterocanonical books are not included.
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Your Jewish Study Bible is not a Jewish work. It’s a Messianic protestant bible with the word Jewish in the title, and the language translated into a type of hebrew-english creole. It includes the New Testament
 
Vivat_Jesus1 said:
Umm, how can someone be a Protestant and NOT know about the Catholic Church? The definition of Protestantism is that they “protest” the Catholic religion…duh! Stop trying to twist infallibly defined dogmas into something that suits your taste, LilCat, and just accept it…you actually seem to be bordering on heresy.
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Be a little nicer to Li’l Cat, Vivat Jesus. They are just seeking answers, not twisting anything.
 
reteeks21 said:
So if you feel so strongly about it, why do you continue to respond to the heretics? We know how you feel, and it is obvious condemning isn’t an issue with you. I also notice how you did not address the Vatican II proclomations about seperated brethren, and all of you references are over 600 years old. Was Vatican II false?
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What difference does it make how old the quotes I used are, Reteeks? Did Vatican II reverse prior Church teaching?
 
Vivat_Jesus1 said:
What difference does it make how old the quotes I used are, Reteeks? Did Vatican II reverse prior Church teaching?
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That’s what I asked you. If 600 years or more has passed between your quotes and Vatican II, which is the official teaching? Is there some ambiguous area here that is open to interpretation?

Since you seem to have the market cornered on church history, DID Vatican II reverse policy or not? The quotes you gave stand in contrast to Vatican II’s seperated bretheren rhetoric so that is why I asked if Vatican II was false. If Vatican II is correct, does that reverse the teachings that come straight from the quotes that you used? Sorry if that wasn’t clear enough for you.
 
Richard_Kastner said:
So, what I hear you saying is that the CC is divine or God. Ian’t that against the first commandment?

Again what I hear you saying is that Jesus sacrifice for our sins on the cross wasn’t quite enough, and there is still something we have to do to earn our own salvation. How is that a gift? John 3:16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Well, it does say in verse 23 that the rich man is in hell, but it also says in verse 22 that Lazarus is carried to the bosum of Abraham. Obviously this is a parable and not to be taken literally.

I don’t beleive that this is implying that there is hope for forgiveness of sins after death at all. I beleive that this is emphasizing the fact that just as you can no longer receive forgiveness after death ie. Your fate is sealed at death. You cannot receive forgiveness for blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. ie. Forgiveness will not be received if it is not asked for.

In Christ Richard
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The Catholic Church is an institution divinely instituted by Christ. It does not take the place of God, but is guided by the divinity of God.

Perhaps you misunderstood. Catholics believe Purgatory is a “place” where the souls of the dead are further purified by “fire”. Just as a snow white shirt, or dress is soiled by a stain that can be removed only by much scrubing, so the soul must be entirely pure and brought to a stainless form before entering Heaven. No earthly person knows how long this process will take for each individual. Only God can judge this.
 
Vivat_Jesus1 said:
Umm, how can someone be a Protestant and NOT know about the Catholic Church? The definition of Protestantism is that they “protest” the Catholic religion…duh! Stop trying to twist infallibly defined dogmas into something that suits your taste, LilCat, and just accept it…you actually seem to be bordering on heresy.
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Lil_Cat said:
Aren’t heretics and schismics people who knowingly reject the CC? How are “Protestants” (or anyone who has never heard of the CC) in this day and age heretics, since most of us are born into whatever faith we currently practice? I guess the natural flow of this question would go to the Pope’s declaration that was quoted above. How would someone who didn’t know any better be sent to hell, and not at least purgatory for their beliefs (to get this thread back on track 👍)? Couldn’t the soul of the CC be people that aren’t defined as "Catholic?
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You are not called heretices. I have been trying to find the document again that states this, but no luck so far. Will keep looking unless someone on this thread knows which statement from the Church I am talkling about???
 
Could it be this, from the Catechism? (**bolding **mine)

[817](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/817.htm’)😉 In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ’s Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270 - do not occur without human sin:

Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.271
[818](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/818.htm’)😉 "However, o**ne cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers **. . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272
819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p3.htm#817

This is why we call them our separated brethren. They are brothers and sisters in Christ who are separated from the Church.

Ruthie
 
Vivat_Jesus1 said:
Wow Distracted…your screen name suits you. The Church teaches that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church. Period. It doesn’t teach that there is ALMOST no salvation outside the Church, or that it is HARDER to be saved outside of the Church…but that “Outside the Catholic Church there is NO SALVATION.” Furthermore, the Church of Christ, or Mystical Body of Christ rather, and the Roman Catholic Church are one and the same…and thus one must belong to the visible Roman Catholic Church to be saved.
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sorry but you are wrong…

the Church does NOT teach that only Catholics can go to Heaven… but some people are “Catholic” in their beliefs yet don’t want to join the Church…
 
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