Protestants spend more time in Purgatory than Catholics

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thecoach said:
Says the Jewish canon
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So a Jewish council that was held in AD 90 is your authority for the Old Testament? A council that rejected Christ and the Revelation of the New Testament!

From the death and resurrection of Christ until that council the early Christians where using the Septuagint. 90% of Old Testament quotes in the New Testament come from the Septuagint. Remember that the Deuterocanonical Books are part of the Septuagint.
 
ziapueblo said:
So a Jewish council that was held in AD 90 is your authority for the Old Testament? A council that rejected Christ and the Revelation of the New Testament!

From the death and resurrection of Christ until that council the early Christians where using the Septuagint. 90% of Old Testament quotes in the New Testament come from the Septuagint. Remember that the Deuterocanonical Books are part of the Septuagint.
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Incorrect!!! There were several versions of the septuagint and the earliest manuscripts did not include the DCs. Jerome even commented that they were good reading but not useful for doctrine as did the early Popes.
 
Maybe I’m just being obnoxious(it wouldn’t be the first time) but I’m curious if Rev. John knows roughly how many martyrs have shed their blood for his particular non-denominational church, since he labels it as being “persecuted” in his profile… any idea? :confused:
 
distracted said:
i wish i could remember where i heard that, but it makes sense because Protestants, generally speaking (especially those who live by OSAS) make a lot of “excuses” for their sins and bad behavior… They think they don’t have to “pay” for then because Jesus paid the price… What they don’t realize is that sin causes an ugly stain on the soul that will keep the soul from entrance into Heaven - until it is wiped away… (by the application of Christ’s Blood atonement)… on this earth and/or in Purgatory…

Revelation says that “no unclean thing will enter Heaven” (21:27)…

(1 Cor 3:13, St. Matthew 18:23, St. Matthew 12:32, etc…)

They don’t seem to believe that what Christ did on Calvary actually has to be APPLIED…

It is like being given a nutritious, delicious meal… and not making a move to eat it because you think… “I don’t need to… i will remain healthy indefinitely anyway…”
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What makes you so sure that Protestants go to purgatory at all? :confused: What about that DOGMA that says there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church? If you are in purgatory, you are saved and will eventually be in Heaven. “Outside the Catholic Church is no salvation” would exclude non-Catholics from being saved and going to heaven–and hence Protestants do not go to purgatory at all, but someplace else.
 
Lil_Cat said:
I thought that official Church teaching said that God alone judges souls. Am I mistaken?
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No, you’re not mistaken–God alone judges souls…and it is a DOGMA (a divinely revealed truth) that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church…Protestants are outside of the Church, obviously…and salvation means going to heaven…hence, Protestants do not go to heaven or purgatory but to Hell.
 
Vivat_Jesus1 said:
Because there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church.
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👍

“The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the “eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matthew 25:41), unless before death they are joined with Her.” - Pope Eugene IV, Cantate Domino.

That’s as official as it gets.
 
Vivat_Jesus1 said:
No, you’re not mistaken–God alone judges souls…and it is a DOGMA (a divinely revealed truth) that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church…Protestants are outside of the Church, obviously…and salvation means going to heaven…hence, Protestants do not go to heaven or purgatory but to Hell.
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Thank you for clearing that up. Can I refer you to the CCC, paragraphs 817-819?

I would like to quote paragraph 818, if I may:

"However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers. . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."
272 (emphasis mine)

Taken from: scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p3.htm#I

Would someone be so kind as to explain what is meant by this? Thanks so much!
 
Dauphin said:
👍

“The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the “eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matthew 25:41), unless before death they are joined with Her.” - Pope Eugene IV, Cantate Domino.

That’s as official as it gets.
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Didn’t Vatican II declare Protestants as our separated brothers and sisters in Christ though? If that is the case, wouldn’t they be going to Purgatory instead of Hell?
 
Lil_Cat said:
Thank you for clearing that up. Can I refer you to the CCC, paragraphs 817-819?

I would like to quote paragraph 818, if I may:

"However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers. . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."
272 (emphasis mine)

Taken from: scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p3.htm#I

Would someone be so kind as to explain what is meant by this? Thanks so much!
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It means exactly what it says. What it doesn’t say is that obstinate heretics and schismatics will go to heaven.

An infant born into a protestant Church is obviously not culpable for the sins of heresy or schism, and will be saved if baptised.
 
Dauphin said:
An infant born into a protestant Church is obviously not culpable for the sins of heresy or schism, and will be saved if baptised.
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So there is salvation outside the Cathlolic Church, correct?
 
curtishouse29 said:
Didn’t Vatican II declare Protestants as our separated brothers and sisters in Christ though? If that is the case, wouldn’t they be going to Purgatory instead of Hell?
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No.

An Ecumenical council does not have to authority to reverse previously defined Catholic dogma. To say that a heretic can go to purgatory is to say that he can go to heaven, which is directly contrary to the Church’s doctrine. Purgatory is simply the ante-chamber of heaven - the place of purification.

Protestants are indeed our brethren in Christ insofar as they are baptised. But having received the grace of baptism is not a guarantee of salvation if one does not have faith in Christ and his Church, or is guilty of grave sin.
 
Lil_Cat said:
So there is salvation outside the Cathlolic Church, correct?
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A baptized infant is technically Catholic, even if that infant were baptized by a heretical Protestant minister. That child is a part of the Catholic Church until he reaches the age of reason and can actively choose Protestantism over Catholicism…secondly, the Catechism of the Catholic Church is not an infallible document, whereas the quote Dauphin provided IS an infallible declaration from a Pope…if there is a question whether they are saying different things, it’s adviseable to stick with what has been infallibly defined, no? And no, “Lil_Cat”, there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church.
 
Dauphin said:
No.

An Ecumenical council does not have to authority to reverse previously defined Catholic dogma. To say that a heretic can go to purgatory is to say that he can go to heaven, which is directly contrary to the Church’s doctrine. Purgatory is simply the ante-chamber of heaven - the place of purification.

Protestants are indeed our brethren in Christ insofar as they are baptised. But having received the grace of baptism is not a guarantee of salvation if one does not have faith in Christ and his Church, or is guilty of grave sin.
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And heresy is a grave sin, btw.
 
Dauphin said:
No.

An Ecumenical council does not have to authority to reverse previously defined Catholic dogma. To say that a heretic can go to purgatory is to say that he can go to heaven, which is directly contrary to the Church’s doctrine. Purgatory is simply the ante-chamber of heaven - the place of purification.

Protestants are indeed our brethren in Christ insofar as they are baptised. But having received the grace of baptism is not a guarantee of salvation if one does not have faith in Christ and his Church, or is guilty of grave sin.
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Indeed. If any of us, Catholic or Protestant, die while not in a state of Grace with the stain of Mortal sin on us, our place is Hell. Being Catholic has never guaranteed salvation.
 
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