Protestants spend more time in Purgatory than Catholics

[qui_est_ce]

qui est ce Thanks for the information.

Its always good to learn something.

I just get kinda irked when someone says something like Jesus was Catholic or a Christian… When he was Jewish.

It also bothers me when someone says King David was a good Christian or whatever. I don’t know why it bothers me it just does.

Never hear that before, but it would irk me too

 

[distracted]

Oh that goes back to someone earlier who said all Protestants go to hell.

Secondly where did you get the 40 year time line? That doesn’t seem all that long in terms of eternity.

from a saint… And 40 yrs is forever when you are in great suffering… This one soul appeared to some (saint) & said, “Why didn’t you offer up a Mass for me several years ago, so i could maybe be in Heaven by now” (something to that effect). The saint said she had only waited 15 minutes to have this Mass offered…

yes lets get them on the road to salvation. But the question is… does anyone actually go to Hell or do they all get to Heaven By way of Purgatory. If that is the case the urgency to get them on the road to salvation is not as urgent.

No… Everything i have heard/read says that many people end up in Hell… Many go to Purgatory, and very few go directly into Heaven @ death… (and i only read reliable information, usually things written by canonized saints, etc…).

 

[Ruthie]

This one soul appeared to some (saint) & said, “Why didn’t you offer up a Mass for me several years ago, so i could maybe be in Heaven by now” (something to that effect). The saint said she had only waited 15 minutes to have this Mass offered…

I know Purgatory is outside of time, just as Heaven is. But perhaps when we’re there, we can have a false sensation of time passing. I mean the way we do when something seems to last “forever” when it really only lasts a minute or two.

Just a musing …

Ruthie

 

[qui_est_ce]

*I know Purgatory is outside of time, just as Heaven is. But perhaps when we’re there, we can have a false sensation of time passing. I mean the way we do when something seems to last “forever” when it really only lasts a minute or two.

Just a musing …

Ruthie* I agree with you on that.

My :twocents: on Purgatory. I think when you die and meet God in His love face to face, you will be so ashamed of all the petty things you did. It will be the most horrible feeling in the world. You will become aware of all that God has done and how much He loves you, and how you turned your back on Him. I’m not looking forward to seeing how petty I am. But at the same time, you will be surrounded, humbled and awed by His magnificent love.

 

[distracted]

I agree with you on that.

My :twocents: on Purgatory. I think when you die and meet God in His love face to face, you will be so ashamed of all the petty things you did. It will be the most horrible feeling in the world. You will become aware of all that God has done and how much He loves you, and how you turned your back on Him. I’m not looking forward to seeing how petty I am. But at the same time, you will be surrounded, humbled and awed by His magnificent love.

This happens when i am at the Real Presence… I don’t know why more Catholics (or more anyone) do not spend time There… I just don’t get it… Mabvye that is why so few “make it”, as Jesus said?? I don’t know. I never used to even know about spending time with Jesus in His real Presence. Thank God a good priest yrs ago told me… I am glad he didn’t “assume” i already knew…

even though sometimes i go through uncomfortable things There…(which nontheless are necessary), this gift the priest gave me is the greatest gift i have ever received… other than, well, the Catholic faith per se…

 

[distracted]

. He/she was able to quote Catholic documents, but seemed to ignore Vat.II.

Jon

Oh oh… Now we are all going to get jumped on by Protestants who say “See… one vatican council contradicted another”…

i dont see any contradition because even the original document about how you have to belong to the Church to be saved does not contradict later documents… non-Catholics ARE members of the Church, just indireclty…

 

[distracted]

I just get kinda irked when someone says something like Jesus was Catholic or a Christian… When he was Jewish.

.

Jesus WAS Jewish… but then he converted to Catholicism…

 

[Dauphin]

Jesus WAS Jewish… but then he converted to Catholicism…

Jesus Christ is the truth incarnate, and Catholic doctrine is a mirror of Christ.

 

[KenEOTE]

Jesus WAS Jewish… but then he converted to Catholicism…

Oh so then Jesus didn’t start the Catholic Church?

Hmm that messes up a lot of the Churches doctrines then.

And I thought I was the heretical one.

 

[elts1956]

Could it be this, from the Catechism? (**bolding **mine)

[817](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/817.htm’) In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ’s Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270 - do not occur without human sin:

Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.271
[818](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/818.htm’) "However, o**ne cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers **. . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272
819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p3.htm#817

This is why we call them our separated brethren. They are brothers and sisters in Christ who are separated from the Church.

Ruthie

Hi Ruthie. Yes, I think you are right in your above quotes, but I thought there was also a statement made by Pope John Paul II in perhaps? Et Unum Sint about those born into other faiths not being heretics.

 

[elts1956]

Could it be this, from the Catechism? (**bolding **mine)

[817](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/817.htm’) In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ’s Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270 - do not occur without human sin:

Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.271
[818](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/818.htm’) "However, o**ne cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers **. . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272
819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p3.htm#817

This is why we call them our separated brethren. They are brothers and sisters in Christ who are separated from the Church.

Ruthie

You are a heretic and your claim is not supported by authoritative Church teaching.

There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved." (Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215.)​

“We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302.)​

“The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)​

There are a lot of folks that honestly don’t believe the Catholic Church is true…and they are honestly WRONG. Ignorance is not a ticket to heaven.

Dear Vivat. Better read Et Unum Sint written by Pope John Paul II, study it and understand it. Unless perhaps your of that Catholic ilk who believe any document written by any Pope after Vatican II is not in accordance with Catholic Church Teaching?

 

[qui_est_ce]

Oh so then Jesus didn’t start the Catholic Church?

Hmm that messes up a lot of the Churches doctrines then.

And I thought I was the heretical one.

I don’t think that was a fair remark. You completely twisted the meaning of what Distracted was trying to say.

 

[KenEOTE]

I don’t think that was a fair remark. You completely twisted the meaning of what Distracted was trying to say.

I didn’t twist anyting. Jesus never converted he was Jewish. Show me in scripture where he said I am a Catholic now?

I am jsut saying when people start saying things like that it makes “Christians” look silly. Stay historically factual.

Jesus and the Apostles were Jewish. Christianity was a sect of Judaism for years. I don’t know why these things bother so many people.

 

[JonNC]

Oh oh… Now we are all going to get jumped on by Protestants who say “See… one vatican council contradicted another”…

i dont see any contradition because even the original document about how you have to belong to the Church to be saved does not contradict later documents… non-Catholics ARE members of the Church, just indireclty…

JonNC: because you accept recent Catholic understandings of how the Church views noncatholics

Just note, by my quote here, that I tried not to imply that.

Jon

 

[qui_est_ce]

I didn’t twist anyting. Jesus never converted he was Jewish.
I am jsut saying when people start saying things like that it makes “Christians” look silly. Stay historically factual.

Jesus and the Apostles were Jewish. Christianity was a sect of Judaism for years. I don’t know why these things bother so many people.

If Jesus were Catholic does not mean that Jesus didn’t start the Catholic Church, which is what you twisted.

IOW, He was Jew practicing Catholicism. Those Jews and Gentiles who were following “The Way” came to be called “Catholics” by St. Ignatius of Antioch in approx. 106.

Show me in scripture where he said I am a Catholic now?

He was baptized.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Not really. For accusing someone like you of being a heretic because you accept recent Catholic understandings of how the Church views noncatholics. He/she was able to quote Catholic documents, but seemed to ignore Vat.II. That seems to be the opinion of sedavacantists.
Anyway, it wasn’t meant to be an accusation, just wondering aloud.

Jon

Just note, by my quote here, that I tried not to imply that.

Jon

What are Sedavacantists?

 

[KenEOTE]

If Jesus were Catholic does not mean that Jesus didn’t start the Catholic Church, which is what you twisted.

IOW, He was Jew practicing Catholicism. Those Jews and Gentiles who were following “The Way” came to be called “Catholics” by St. Ignatius of Antioch in approx. 106.
He was baptized.

Actually he was Jewish Practicing Judaism. He is and was the Jewish Messiah (even if some Jews do not believe he is, that doesn’t change who he is)

106 AD is over 70 years after He died. So he could not be Catholic. Historically speaking. That is what I am saying.

Why people have issue with Jesus being a Jew is beyond me. Its like people who say he is African american or Baptist.

By the way he was Baptized as an Adult by John the Baptist who wasn’t Catholic either.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Actually he was Jewish Practicing Judaism. He is and was the Jewish Messiah (even if some Jews do not believe he is, that doesn’t change who he is)

No, he did not. He broke the rules. He didn’t wash his hands before eating, he worked on the Sabbath. He claimed he was the son of God (the Jews don’t believe the Messiah is the son of God). He drank blood, which is forbidden. He mingled with sinners and non Jews.

Why people have issue with Jesus being a Jew is beyond me. Its like people who say he is African american or Baptist.

I can’t help it! No really, he was a Jew. By that logic, Catholics are Jews too, which is true to a certain extent. But that is off topic. the topic is Purgatory.

By the way he was Baptized as an Adult by John the Baptist who wasn’t Catholic either.

You don’t have to be baptized by a Catholic in order to be Catholic. The CC accepts ONE baptism. This is why baptized converts from other denominations are not rebaptized when they come into the Church. (as long as they are baptized “in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit”).

 

[KenEOTE]

SO You say Jesus broke the law.

When he in fact says he did not come to do away with the Law but to fulfill the Law.

Jesus was God incarnate. He was the fulfillment of the OT laws and prophecies.

Yes he did practice Judaism. He celebrated the Feasts he went to the temple he went to the synagogue. He was circumsised.

The last supper was the Passover feast ending with his death as the sacrificial lamb.

Why does it upset you to say he was Jewish? Do you have something against the Jewish people? You shouldn’t, you worship the Jewish Messiah.

By the way I am not the one who got off topic I was responding to someone else who was off tiopic.

 

[Robert_in_SD]

i wish i could remember where i heard that, but it makes sense because Protestants, generally speaking (especially those who live by OSAS) make a lot of “excuses” for their sins and bad behavior… They think they don’t have to “pay” for then because Jesus paid the price… What they don’t realize is that sin causes an ugly stain on the soul that will keep the soul from entrance into Heaven - until it is wiped away… (by the application of Christ’s Blood atonement)… on this earth and/or in Purgatory…

Revelation says that “no unclean thing will enter Heaven” (21:27)…

(1 Cor 3:13, St. Matthew 18:23, St. Matthew 12:32, etc…)

They don’t seem to believe that what Christ did on Calvary actually has to be APPLIED…

It is like being given a nutritious, delicious meal… and not making a move to eat it because you think… “I don’t need to… i will remain healthy indefinitely anyway…”

Unless you are the recipient of some sort of authentic personal revelation, I think you have no basis for making such a statement. Only God knows the true measure of each human soul, and protestants are not bound by canonical form. Protestants and Catholics both believe in Christ’s sacrifice on the cross and the redemptive grace that follows from it. Where we differ is in the *manner *in which that redemptive grace is applied to our personal life.

I understand that some protestant doctrines (certainly not universal protestant doctrines) like OSAS leave open the possibility that a person may not openly repent of sins commited after a “born again” experience. But such a posture flows from that person’s faith that Christ died for those sins and that Christ has already forgiven the sin - indeed to seek forgiveness may be seen as a questioning of Christ’s “completed” work. Although I believe such thinking to be wrong, (and only present in the most extreme case anyway), only God knows the true heart of that sinner who clearly loves God. Who are we to weigh that sort of faith in the balance and mete out speculative suffering in purgatory?

Peace,
-Robert