You may need to explain a little more. I'm not certain what you are talking about concerning " it is folded in and can be called Christian doctrine..."
I can assure you, you do not know my father.
Purgatory
- Thread starter po18guy
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I am locking this thread. It has gotten entirely out of hand.
I am unlocking this thread. One correspondent has been banned, and I remind any other commentators to adhere to basic civility, even if speaking of her.
Let's see if we can revive this thread to the original topic...
Point 6 lists biblical proofs...
So how many are there? '
Just wondering.
Specifically I was hoping to stick to the 66 books contained within the KJV.
If one is going to convince someone that rejects the Catholic biblical tradition, we need to meet them where they are.
Point 6 lists biblical proofs...
So how many are there? '
Just wondering.
Specifically I was hoping to stick to the 66 books contained within the KJV.
If one is going to convince someone that rejects the Catholic biblical tradition, we need to meet them where they are.
Matthew 12:32 (KJV):
And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
This implies that there are sins that can be forgiven after death.
There may be other proof texts from the truncated Protestant "canon", but this was the first one that came to mind.
I've never been able to gain traction with this particular one.
Weirdest argument I got back was from Protestant pastor that made the claim that the world to come was simply the future.
Delineating it off by pointing out that Jesus had to ascend and send the Holy Spirit...thus the world to come is the one with the Holy Spirit actively moving and guiding the church.
That said, I have made some headway with John 20:
I have found many times that people are absolutely shocked that is there, having never seen it before.
I end up witnessing two different sets of reactions.
One actively fights the translation and claims I don't really understand it. They make some deep dive into Greek and make a play that what we really see is not there.
The other says they will pray about it...then promptly forgets the conversation.
po18guy
Well-known member
I ask why John - after Jesus' atoning death on the cross - would write that nothing impure enters God's Kingdom (Rev. 21:27). If Jesus 'paid the price', then how can this be? They raise the flag of imputed righteousness but sin is imputed as often as righteousness. I note that the translators of the KJV were biased toward "imputation" as being only in the positive. Both righteousness and sin are imputed - depending on the behavior of the individual., which reflects free will.
As to scriptures. 1 Cor. 3:10-14 explain the final purification after earthly death. It is:
1) after death.
2) at the judgment.
3) one's works will be tested by fire.
4) if they survive the fire, the believer will receive a reward.
5) if those works burn up, the believer will be saved, but only as if passing through that same purifying/testing fire.
Another is Jesus' counsel to settle scores with your adversary on the way to court (judgment). (Mt. 5:25-26) If you are found culpable at judgment, you will be sent to prison and will not be released until you have paid the full price/every penny. Jesus was not giving legal advice.
And what about the holy souls in Sheol? Not even Moses or Elijah avoided that deprivation/delay of their reward (Transfiguration).
As to scriptures. 1 Cor. 3:10-14 explain the final purification after earthly death. It is:
1) after death.
2) at the judgment.
3) one's works will be tested by fire.
4) if they survive the fire, the believer will receive a reward.
5) if those works burn up, the believer will be saved, but only as if passing through that same purifying/testing fire.
Another is Jesus' counsel to settle scores with your adversary on the way to court (judgment). (Mt. 5:25-26) If you are found culpable at judgment, you will be sent to prison and will not be released until you have paid the full price/every penny. Jesus was not giving legal advice.
And what about the holy souls in Sheol? Not even Moses or Elijah avoided that deprivation/delay of their reward (Transfiguration).