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jimmy
Guest
Read my links, there are many scriptures that suport Purgatory.
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JesusFreak16
Guest
Brace yourself…
Believe it or not I do not “follow” people. I follow Jesus.
God’s Peace~
Lisa
J
JGC
Guest
OK, rephrase
Why do you believe the reformers position as opposed to the Catholic Church or the Church Fathers (early Christians)?
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jimmy
Guest
You do follow the reformers whether you know it or not. There was one church for thee first 1400 years and that was the Catholic Church. All Christians were part of that church. Then everything went haywire, people started to reject the church and believe what they wanted to believe. There are thousands of denominations now because of these reformers.
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JesusFreak16
Guest
You bring a good point that I should believe the early Christians, but they weren’t documented in the Bible like Paul was. The Bible was God’s Word written by people.
There are many reasons why the church split. One good reason was the selling of indulgences. There are many others. If you want to discuss them/ prove them wrong, I will be back.
God’s Peace~
Lisa
B
Beaver
Guest
This is not saying one is to enter heaven.
The Israelites did not directly go to the Promise Land. They had to go through the desert first.
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JGC
Guest
Everything isn’t in the Bible. You won’t find the term trinity anywhere, yet I assume you accept this doctrine.
The church has ‘split’ (east and west), then in the west protestant / Catholic.
I would recommend you read
scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p3.htm#I
esp
813 onwards
In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ’s Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270 - do not occur without human sin:
Please do come back with your reasons. They are easily refuted.
As Cardinal Newman said, to be deep in history is to cease to be protestant.
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Greg_McPherran
Guest
Hello Lisa and Homer,
homer:
1 Peter 3:19 In it he also went to preach to the spirits in prison,
Greg
What does this Scripture mean?:
1 Peter 3:19 In it he also went to preach to the spirits in prison,
Greg
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jimmy
Guest
Who do you think decided to put Pauls writings in the bible? It was the early Christians. If you want the councils that decided what would be in the bible I will give them to you.
Indulgences may have been sold but that in no way makes the theology of the church wrong. The truth is the truth even if people sin. If you want to discuss the sins of Christians in history then I will tell you why that does not change the truth.
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JGC
Guest
Protestants have sinned every much as bit as much as Catholics I’m afraid. Calvin had Servetus burned at the stake!
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jimmy
Guest
I agree. good point
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MariaG
Guest
Lisa,
I do know you have a lot to respond to, but no comment about the Scripture I quoted?
Your sister in Christ,
Maria
p.s.
There are many more Scripture verses, Maccabees is just the clearest, probably part of the reason it was not included in Protestant Bible. **At the very least, it shows that Purgatory cannot be a Catholic invention, but would have to be a Jewish one, **since Maccabees was written before Christ walked on this earth.
I do know you have a lot to respond to, but no comment about the Scripture I quoted?
Your sister in Christ,
Maria
p.s.
There are many more Scripture verses, Maccabees is just the clearest, probably part of the reason it was not included in Protestant Bible. **At the very least, it shows that Purgatory cannot be a Catholic invention, but would have to be a Jewish one, **since Maccabees was written before Christ walked on this earth.
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SP38
Guest
Lisa,
How many Holy Masses does it take to release a soul from Purgatory? This varies with the particular circumstances of each soul. However, it has been suggested that it is better to have one Holy Mass offered for yourself in this life while you are still able to help yourself than to wait until you get to Purgatory and to then totally rely upon the charity of others. Although the answer to the question of exactly how many Holy Masses it would actually take to release a particular soul from Purgatory is normally not disclosed, except in very rare cases of private revelation, it has been claimed that one Holy Mass offered for you BEFORE your death is worth at least 1,000 Holy Requiem Masses offered for you AFTER your death!
shrineofsaintjude.net/home1601.html
Only 35.00 each.
How many Holy Masses does it take to release a soul from Purgatory? This varies with the particular circumstances of each soul. However, it has been suggested that it is better to have one Holy Mass offered for yourself in this life while you are still able to help yourself than to wait until you get to Purgatory and to then totally rely upon the charity of others. Although the answer to the question of exactly how many Holy Masses it would actually take to release a particular soul from Purgatory is normally not disclosed, except in very rare cases of private revelation, it has been claimed that one Holy Mass offered for you BEFORE your death is worth at least 1,000 Holy Requiem Masses offered for you AFTER your death!
shrineofsaintjude.net/home1601.html
Only 35.00 each.
E
Exporter
Guest
I will keep this simple. This is a paraphrase from a Monsenior I knew some 40 years ago.
Read 1stJohn 1:8-9. It says God will forgive your sins if you are sorry and ask His forgiveness. So if you confess sins you can be assured of forgiveness. ( but it didn’t say you are Scot-Free did it.)
In Matthew Jesus said you have to pay every last cent for transgressions(sins). So you were forgiven but you haven’t paid the price for them.
If you were a low-paid worker at a box factory and accidentally started a fire that did significant damage ( say $1000 worth). You go tell the boss YOU ARE SORRY…HE FORGIVES YOU. Is that the end of it ?..NO, you have to pay for the damage. It’s the same as paying and being purified in purgatory…
In purgatory you are paying for sins that were forgiven while you were alive! It is said we do pay for some sins while we are alive.
Go to Catholic Answers to find more …if you are really interested.
Read 1stJohn 1:8-9. It says God will forgive your sins if you are sorry and ask His forgiveness. So if you confess sins you can be assured of forgiveness. ( but it didn’t say you are Scot-Free did it.)
In Matthew Jesus said you have to pay every last cent for transgressions(sins). So you were forgiven but you haven’t paid the price for them.
If you were a low-paid worker at a box factory and accidentally started a fire that did significant damage ( say $1000 worth). You go tell the boss YOU ARE SORRY…HE FORGIVES YOU. Is that the end of it ?..NO, you have to pay for the damage. It’s the same as paying and being purified in purgatory…
In purgatory you are paying for sins that were forgiven while you were alive! It is said we do pay for some sins while we are alive.
Go to Catholic Answers to find more …if you are really interested.
B
Britta
Guest
Purgatory is completely scriptural, and not just in Maccabees. I always look at the idea of purgatory in this way…
Someone vandalizes a home and breaks a window. Eventually, he comes to realize what he has done, is sorry, asks forgiveness and all is well. The offense is forgiven and forgotten. However, the effects remain. The window is still broken.
It is the same with us. We ask for forgiveness and He gives it. However, there are still many effects which remain as a result of our sin and disobedience. The window still needs to be fixed.
Why do we pray for those in purgatory? We are one body, one community of believers. And since Jesus conquered death, that includes **everyone **in Christ, not just those on earth. While our loved ones are going through the purging process and eventually making their way to heaven, we continue to pray for them just as easily as we pray for people here on earth.
Everytime we grow closer to Jesus, we go through a purging process. It is a constant journey and result of our Faith. It does not stop just because our physical bodies die.
Hope that makes sense.
God Bless
Britta
Someone vandalizes a home and breaks a window. Eventually, he comes to realize what he has done, is sorry, asks forgiveness and all is well. The offense is forgiven and forgotten. However, the effects remain. The window is still broken.
It is the same with us. We ask for forgiveness and He gives it. However, there are still many effects which remain as a result of our sin and disobedience. The window still needs to be fixed.
Why do we pray for those in purgatory? We are one body, one community of believers. And since Jesus conquered death, that includes **everyone **in Christ, not just those on earth. While our loved ones are going through the purging process and eventually making their way to heaven, we continue to pray for them just as easily as we pray for people here on earth.
Everytime we grow closer to Jesus, we go through a purging process. It is a constant journey and result of our Faith. It does not stop just because our physical bodies die.
Hope that makes sense.
God Bless
Britta
P
Psalm45_9
Guest
The Rich Man and Lazarus are neither in Heaven nor Hell. Christ has not been crucified, ressurected, and ascended into Heaven yet. Lazurus is in Limbo of the Patriarchs with Abraham. The Rich Man’s fire are the result of his sins, but he has not been damned, because judgement has not yet occured. The flames are indeed purgation. If he were in Hell, then he would not be able to talk to Abraham.
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Joanna
Guest
Well said and true, I believe.
Lest, however, it sound like a walk in the park, 2 Peter 3:8 should give us pause, advising us not to be ignorant of the fact, “that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years and a thousand yerars like one day.”. While I do hope purgatory lasts but a twinkling of an eye and hope, too, that I experience it that way, best to be prepared each day.
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Joanna
Guest
Well said and true, I believe.
Lest, however, it sound like a walk in the park, 2 Peter 3:8 should give us pause, advising us not to be ignorant of the fact, “that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years and a thousand years like one day.”. While I do hope purgatory lasts but a twinkling of an eye and hope, too, that I experience it that way, best to be prepared each day.
M
martino
Guest
Questions for Homer and/or JesusFreak:
1 Cor 3:11 “For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw-- 13 each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14 If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.”
What is this passage referring to? It cannot be referring to heaven because we all agree that nobody suffers in heaven. It cannot be hell because we would also agree that nobody that goes to hell is saved. We know from the passage that a our works will be disclosed on Judgement Day, and we will be judged accordingly. But how can somebody that is “saved” suffer loss as through fire after they die?
Could this passage possible refer to a 3rd state where souls that are “saved” but not perfect enough to enter heaven experience a purging or cleansing?
Heb 12:29 "for our God is a consuming fire."
1 Cor 3:11 “For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw-- 13 each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14 If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.”
What is this passage referring to? It cannot be referring to heaven because we all agree that nobody suffers in heaven. It cannot be hell because we would also agree that nobody that goes to hell is saved. We know from the passage that a our works will be disclosed on Judgement Day, and we will be judged accordingly. But how can somebody that is “saved” suffer loss as through fire after they die?
Could this passage possible refer to a 3rd state where souls that are “saved” but not perfect enough to enter heaven experience a purging or cleansing?
Heb 12:29 "for our God is a consuming fire."
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