G
gama232
Guest
Thank you. I will have to add that to my personal history section.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Putin, the Russian president, moves to ban gay marriage and add references to God in constitutional amendments
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
N
niceatheist
Guest
The US and CCCP both utilized the knowledge of German personnel. The V-1 can be downed by fighter planes and routinely was by the way after a time when it was in operational use.
[/quote]
Most of what we know about hypothermia comes from Nazi human medical experiments. I listened to a fascinating radio documentary several years ago that discussed the use of Nazi medical research.
Werner von Braun is largely responsible for men going to the Moon, and he was a card carrying Nazi. Now his explanation is that the party membership helped him do his research, and he was a peculiar enough fellow that it probably was mostly true, but the entire Denazification efforts in both Western and Eastern Germany had as much to do with rehabilitating Nazi engineers, academics and scientists as making the German peoples nice and peacable.
[/quote]
Most of what we know about hypothermia comes from Nazi human medical experiments. I listened to a fascinating radio documentary several years ago that discussed the use of Nazi medical research.
Werner von Braun is largely responsible for men going to the Moon, and he was a card carrying Nazi. Now his explanation is that the party membership helped him do his research, and he was a peculiar enough fellow that it probably was mostly true, but the entire Denazification efforts in both Western and Eastern Germany had as much to do with rehabilitating Nazi engineers, academics and scientists as making the German peoples nice and peacable.
G
gama232
Guest
Study some history. Denazification failed. Attempts to replace party members with German speaking foreigners failed. In order for the Occupation government to get things done, and on time, former party members were put back in place. It was not a matter of knowing what to do but about knowing who to contact, especially when things went wrong.
Yes, the United States allowed plenty of (meaningless) card carrying Nazis into the country. Why? The threat posed by the Russians.
Yes, the United States allowed plenty of (meaningless) card carrying Nazis into the country. Why? The threat posed by the Russians.
N
niceatheist
Guest
It went little differently in Japan. The political criminals and some of the more egregious military and medical criminals went to the gallows, but rebuilding these nations meant that some of the bad guys, in particular industrialists and other experts, were ultimately given a free pass.Study some history. Denazification failed. Attempts to replace party members with German speaking foreigners failed. In order for the Occupation government to get things done, and on time, former party members were put back in place. It was not a matter of knowing what to do but about knowing who to contact, especially when things went wrong.
Yes, the United States allowed plenty of (meaningless) card carrying Nazis into the country. Why? The threat posed by the Russians.
G
gama232
Guest
I have several books that describe the practical reasons for bringing German scientists to the US after the war. Among those reasons was that the Germans were far ahead of anything the West had. This technology absolved anyone of their wartime deeds. That was partly dismantled many years later.
T
TK421
Guest
As always, the people who were executed or jailed were the people who got their hands dirty. The people eagerly cooperating with the war in other ways were not.
Whether or not the distinction means anything to God is yet to be seen.
Whether or not the distinction means anything to God is yet to be seen.
G
gama232
Guest
Weren’t serious about what? The word Nazi derives from some letters in National Socialist Workers Party, that’s all. Even before the war, German industrialists, especially scientists, were putting things together to help even the odds for Germany. The global chemical cartel, IG Farben, is practically unknown today. German scientists were selected based on their usefulness.
T
TK421
Guest
Sounds a lot like 2020.
G
gama232
Guest
Yes, the Japanese biological warfare people handed over their very valuable research on live human subjects over to the Americans.
Last edited:
G
gama232
Guest
I was speaking to two men from Germany. One spoke very good English, the other did not. One was attending University to become a chemist. His friend asked him on my behalf if he had heard of IG Farben. He had not. When I was at University I was told that in order to study Chemistry I would have to take a class in German.
G
gama232
Guest
I was told at the time that the best Chemistry books were written in German.
N
niceatheist
Guest
The problem with modern warfare, or more specifically with Total War, is that every aspect of the nation, including almost every citizen, in some way or another is a contributor to the war effort. Whether it’s housewives buying war bonds, working in munitions plants, working in textile mills, or heck even being lumberjacks, everyone in modern wars is a participant in one form or another. While “just following orders” was rejected as a defense at the Nuremberg, to have followed it to the extreme would have meant tens of thousands of people ended up on the gallows.As always, the people who were executed or jailed were the people who got their hands dirty. The people eagerly cooperating with the war in other ways were not.
Whether or not the distinction means anything to God is yet to be seen.
T
TK421
Guest
Germany was an R&D juggernaut in the early 20th century with computers and science.
Some of the stuff on the ‘superiority’ of German equipment is to a large extent bro-science. Because of the fuel-demand and how expensive they were, the late-war German tanks were actually kind of ‘meh’ compared to American or Soviet counterparts. In mass-scale warfare it’s not just about building something that’s the strongest or toughest; it’s about factory production and streamlining.
Soviet tanks weren’t unbeatable but if you can pump them out like rabbits then you win, and the USSR excelled at that. They could have kept going and destroyed the American & British land forces but nukes were already introduced to the world at that point.
Some of the stuff on the ‘superiority’ of German equipment is to a large extent bro-science. Because of the fuel-demand and how expensive they were, the late-war German tanks were actually kind of ‘meh’ compared to American or Soviet counterparts. In mass-scale warfare it’s not just about building something that’s the strongest or toughest; it’s about factory production and streamlining.
Soviet tanks weren’t unbeatable but if you can pump them out like rabbits then you win, and the USSR excelled at that. They could have kept going and destroyed the American & British land forces but nukes were already introduced to the world at that point.
Last edited:
G
gama232
Guest
The USSR excelled at what? I have a German publication showing a Russian tank plant after bombing. Imagine getting molten metal out after the equipment cooled. The Germans had Buna, or synthetic rubber. Most German vehicles had synthetic rubber tires by the end of the war. The Russians required American tanks and aircraft. The British braved arctic conditions to send Russia equipment. The whole Lend-Lease idea was built around helping Russia with shortfalls. By the way, the Russians had four B-29 bombers which were reverse engineered to create the Russian bomber threat against the US. They knew the B-29 could carry an atomic bomb.
And a bit about Russian tank warfare. For whatever reason, only the lead tank had a radio. The other tanks would follow it during an attack. The Germans noticed this and made it a point to knock out the lead tank.
And a bit about Russian tank warfare. For whatever reason, only the lead tank had a radio. The other tanks would follow it during an attack. The Germans noticed this and made it a point to knock out the lead tank.
Last edited:
H
HarryStotle
Guest
Uh huh. Which is why the Trump administration has been far tougher on Putin than Obama was. If Putin has a “special place in Trump’s heart,” he must have had an even more special place in Obama’s.…
Makes sense in that Trump is Putin’s puppet and Trump has never criticized Putin regarding anything. He’s criticized, made fun of, and attacked leaders foreign and domestic, but never Putin. Putin has a special place in Trump’s heart.
…
Obama was caught on camera telling Putin that he would have more flexibility after the election.
Trump imposed new sanctions on Russia. These were strict sanctions on seven of Russia’s richest individuals and 17 top government officials from Putin’s “inner circle” for interference in elections, effectively prohibiting them from ever traveling to the United States again.
On August 2017, Trump signed a bill imposing more sanctions on Russia targeting Russia’s energy and defence industries. Congress effectively wrote the bill such that no executive order could ever undo the sanctions, and Trump signed it anyway.
Trump — not Obama — ordered the closure of Russian diplomatic properties in San Francisco, Washington, D.C., and New York City that threatened American security.
During Trump’s speech in Poland, he sharply criticized Russia for holding the Eastern European countries hostage to oil. He made it clear that those countries sovereignty was endangered by dependence on Russian oil.
Source: President Trump is tougher on Russia in 18 months than Obama in eight years | TheHill
Continued…
Last edited:
H
HarryStotle
Guest
Source: Is Trump The Toughest Ever On Russia? : NPRTrump sought to add $1.4 billion for fiscal year 2018 to the European Deterrence Initiative — a military effort to deter Russian aggression that was initially known as the European Reassurance Initiative. That’s a 41 percent increase from the last year of the Obama administration. The president also agreed to send lethal weapons to Ukraine — a step that Obama resisted. And Trump gave U.S. forces in Syria more leeway to engage with Russian troops.
In 2017, President Trump approved the sale of lethal weapons to Ukraine addressing the country’s vulnerability to Russian-backed separatists in its eastern provinces.
Following An April 2018 Round Of Sanctions Administrered By The Trump Administration, The Russian Ruble Made Its “Biggest Daily Fall” In Over Three Years And Stocks In Major Russian Companies Slid.
On October 31, 2017, The U.S. Treasury Banned American Companies And Individuals From Taking Part In Any Russian Artic Offshore Oil Projects That Help Russian Oil Companies Already Facing Sanctions.
Due To U.S. Sanctions, Russian Energy Giant Gazprom’s Ability To Secure Long Term Funding And U.S. Dollars Has Largely Been Blocked.
Source: https://gop.com/trump-admins-tough-actions-against-russia-rsrOn March 1, 2018, The U.S. State Department Approved A $47 Million Dollar Sale Of Javelin Antitank Missiles And Related Equipment To Ukraine.
Your “impressions” about Putin’s “special place” in Trump’s heart are not founded in reality, but in your personal animus.
N
niceatheist
Guest
Let’s be pretty clear about what ended up wiping out the Germans. It wasn’t the threat of invasion from the West, it wasn’t even the Eastern Front, though both fronts pinned down a lot of German troops. When the Germans lost access to Middle East oil, and more importantly, to Iranian wells, even if they could have pumped out ten times the tanks, planes and ships they were capable of, they wouldn’t have been able to move them. The real key to victory was to cut off the most critical supply line of them all; oil.
The Germans had hoped the Italians could at least be relied upon to hazard the Royal Navy in the Mediterranean and bolster occupations in surrounding territory to keep the supply lines open, but the Italians just didn’t have the capacity, and to some extent, even the military skill. When the Allies deposed Reza Shah and put his son on the throne, the Germans lost their critical Asian ally, lost any hope of accessing Iranian oil, and also saw the Allies construct a supply line to Russia via the Trans-Iranian Railroad that the Germans had no capacity to attack. With those factors in play, as much as anything, it was literally just allowing German armored units to run of fuel. German armored units were literally pulling trucks with oxen or just getting up and abandoning their tanks and other vehicles.
The Germans had hoped the Italians could at least be relied upon to hazard the Royal Navy in the Mediterranean and bolster occupations in surrounding territory to keep the supply lines open, but the Italians just didn’t have the capacity, and to some extent, even the military skill. When the Allies deposed Reza Shah and put his son on the throne, the Germans lost their critical Asian ally, lost any hope of accessing Iranian oil, and also saw the Allies construct a supply line to Russia via the Trans-Iranian Railroad that the Germans had no capacity to attack. With those factors in play, as much as anything, it was literally just allowing German armored units to run of fuel. German armored units were literally pulling trucks with oxen or just getting up and abandoning their tanks and other vehicles.
G
gama232
Guest
“products”? We’re not talking about toaster ovens. I have access to numerous intelligence and evaluation reports written by lengthily named British and American technical intelligence groups. They were interested in factual details, not building myths. It was those same people who encouraged the importation of German personnel, especially to the US which had the manufacturing capability all of the Allies lacked with the exception of Russia.
The Americans built a fat and heavy jet that ended being a trainer for the P-80, which crashed in too many documented instances. The German Me 262 gets some ribbing for its nose wheel failures but an official Messerschmitt document states “avoid turning the nose wheel more than five degrees.”
The Americans built a fat and heavy jet that ended being a trainer for the P-80, which crashed in too many documented instances. The German Me 262 gets some ribbing for its nose wheel failures but an official Messerschmitt document states “avoid turning the nose wheel more than five degrees.”
T
TK421
Guest
People tend to form stereotypes pretty quickly. If a car comes from Germany it’s assumed to somehow be magically amazing - like they have a secret mountain of vibramium stashed under their country - but in reality there are good quality German cars and there are mediocre quality German cars.
Last edited:
N
niceatheist
Guest
A point the Russians remember and honour each year in London. However the British handled their contribution to the Soviets in a more understated way and thus the Russians have as a result generally still more respect towards them as a former ally. Also, as both put up with immense devastation on the Home Front they share that historically, something the US thankfully did not have to endure.
[/quote]
My copy of Churchills History of the Second World War, in the appendices, has a literal boat load of telegraphs and other correspondence. In some of them Stalin would wax quite belligerent, demanding Eisenhower invade France at the earliest opportunity to grant Soviet troops some relief. I recall one communique where Stalin begs for more lend-lease supplies, and because American factories were pretty much working all out, Churchill actually ordered some of the North Atlantic convoys destined for Britain to redirect to the Russian arctic ports, which forced Britain to scale back some Western Theatre operations, but Churchill knew full well that the Soviets were keeping a fair chunk of the German army pinned, and until the Western Allies were ready for the invasion, the Soviets were carrying the burden of fighting Germany.
[/quote]
My copy of Churchills History of the Second World War, in the appendices, has a literal boat load of telegraphs and other correspondence. In some of them Stalin would wax quite belligerent, demanding Eisenhower invade France at the earliest opportunity to grant Soviet troops some relief. I recall one communique where Stalin begs for more lend-lease supplies, and because American factories were pretty much working all out, Churchill actually ordered some of the North Atlantic convoys destined for Britain to redirect to the Russian arctic ports, which forced Britain to scale back some Western Theatre operations, but Churchill knew full well that the Soviets were keeping a fair chunk of the German army pinned, and until the Western Allies were ready for the invasion, the Soviets were carrying the burden of fighting Germany.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.