Putting your marital relationship first..?

[condan]

Guys are like that. They don’t operate the way that we do. And yes, they do show their love for us by doing the stuff that we ask. It sounds as if you are lucky enough to be a stay at home mom. That is wonderful but it has a drawback in that its 24/7. See if you can enlist family in giving you a break so you can indulge in a haircut or manicure once or twice a month. Maybe there are play groups you can join that give the opportunity for conversation.

You can’t change him and you can’t make him read books or take advice. You can change you. You can read books that help you deal with the other part of our species.

Dr. Laura’s book is very good for a wife to read. Also, the Couple to Couple League has very good Catholic resources that you can print out and leave around the house like writings on sex by the Pope when he was still cardinal of Krakow.

Good luck, God bless and hang in there. Being a wife and mother is hard work.

 

[darcee]

Darcee, I had to chuckle at that because even though you are 100% correct, I can so remember being even MORE resentful when someone gave me that advice many years ago. Once again, it was up to ME to find a good day/evening to get together, to arrange for child care, to pick the activity. It’s like shopping for my own birthday present, paying for it, wrapping it up and then handing to my hubby to give to me - oh, but with a sticky note posted to it as to what day he should do that.

I have to laugh too… I mean it is serious, but there is also something about men that can be SO clueless

At one point I actually made a web page detailing to my husband how to do the romance thing… it almost worked

As much as it sucks I think in most really good marriages there comes a time where you sort of have to let “family building” take precedence over “relationship building” most the time. This isn’t a 100% thing, but it is just reality most the time. Now you need to tend the marriage too; relationship tending needs to be done, but I think women see this as more a function of romance and men see it more as service. If that makes sense.

-D

 

[SteveG]

Nicole:

I would highly recommend Greg Popcak’s book For Better Forever.

exceptionalmarriages.catholiccompany.com/product_detail.cfm?ID=480

God Bless,
Nicole

PS: If you could both read it, that would be the best!

As a husband, I want to highly recommend this book, and the advice given above that you read it together. I know this will be hard to beleive, but it is kind of fun to read it and do the excercises in it. I am not sure if it’s because it was written by a man, but many of the things in it really hit home with me. In fact, previous to reading it, I thought I was a pretty good husband (I actually was much like your description of your’s), but this book helped me see that I was in fact neglecting my relationship with my wife.

Beyond that, the most astounding thing I got from this book was the discussion on the different modes of communication people use. Each person is either primarily verbal (me), visual, or touch (my wife) oriented. He explains that often times, spouses fail to communicate well because they simply are not speaking the ‘language’ of each other. An example would be that I tell my wife 1000 times a day that I love her, she nods sweetly and says ‘that’s nice’, and rarely utters those words to me, and Imight even take offense at her ‘unresponsiveness’. But since she is a ‘touch’ person, the words mean less to her than me. A soft kiss on the cheek, or an unexpected hug conveys to her my love in the language she understands best (touch), and she responds to it entirely differently. The book helps you classify which type of communication is your primary mode, and then compare with your spouse. Once you learn this, you can then begin to learn how to speak the love language of your spouse and vice versa if they are in fact different. This understanding alone has had a tremendous positive effect on our marriage.

 

[Pax]

There are many great points in these posts. Men generally do not lack interest in the marital embrace. It’s sounds like your husband who is early to rise and early to bed, might be over tired. He may be more stressed and tired from his job than you know, and he may need to dial it back a bit at work.

I also think it wise to check out the sleep apnea issue as well as other possible medical problems. If he is on blood pressure medication that could also be a factor.

 

[SteveG]

Wow! wish I’d read all the posts here before posting. A little good natured ‘man-bashing’ seems to be going on. In defense of us ‘clueless’ guys. You ladies can sometimes be, ahem…complicated, and very difficult to please :yup: (OK, no throwing things). Some men find themselves frozen in relationship efforts as at times it seems that whatever we do, it’s not right. I know that’s a stereotype and a generalization, but…the main complaint I ever have heard from men about ther wives (whether Catholic, Protestant, seculer, hindu, etc.) is…drumroll please…‘I can’t seem to ever please her. No matter what I do, it’s not enough.’

You see we are like children. You have to give us LOTS of positive reinforcement if you want to get anything done in this area. Praise our meager efforts, and we’ll usually fall over ourselves to keep trying. Put those efforts down and we get easily discouraged and can feel inept at such things and simply stop trying for fear of failure. Just a friendly word of advice from the token guy on the thread.

Also, with regard sex, and in a more serious vein. The ONLY time that I have ever felt disinclined to have relations with my wife was when I was feeling resentment based on what I talk about above. This feeling of inadequacy can be absolutely demoralizing and causes such resentment that it can seriously effect ones desire to be intimate. When this happens, a wife would likely not even notice. I am not saying this is always the case, or even the case in this instance. But baring a medical explanation, or plain old fatigue, I’d suggest making sure that the source of that problem isn’t some built up resentment based on ‘pleas’ for intamicy which have been interpreted as nagging.

Finally, the best advice I ever received regarding family life was…*
The best thing you can ever do for your children is to love their mother .*
…I don’t think there is ever a time for husband and wife to ‘put their relationship to the side’ as it were. Marriage is the foundation of the family. If that foundation is not strong, the family ultimately will suffer.

 

[karisue]

This thread has touched a nerve with me, too. Just wanted to say that I am right with you there, Carrie!

I just keep reminding myself that my dh is a good husband, good father, etc etc etc etc. That is not always much consolation when I feel like I have to spell out everything I need: “I need to have some alone time with you,” “Can you take a few minutes to talk to me?” etc. You’re right: It is annoying.

I don’t have a solution. I pray for my husband, I pray that my heart be changed, I pray for a servant’s heart. I hope that someday things look up and change. Maybe my kids have to get out of diapers to get there!

 

[cholderby]

I think the Marriage Encounter retreat is a faulous idea.
In addition, you might want to look into a Couple Prayer class in your diocese. Even though the act of praying as a couple is more of a communication between the two of you and God (as opposed to communication between the two of you), I have found that it can really bring people closer together.
My husband and I took a class in February and we have definately changed for the better.

 

[carrieloon]

Thank you for all the suggestions, these are great!

That book is exactly what I was looking for…something for both of us to read together, exercises are even better!, and the fact that it was written from a Catholic standpoint just seals the deal. I will be purchasing the book.

As far as the rest of the postings, yes he has a lower sex drive than me. It has been like this for a good 6+ years (before we even had kids) and I am fairly sure that it is not medical in nature. I think that’s just how he is and how I am. It is actually quite common, although most men don’t think so!
Opposites attract and I’m sure this one was one of the things that drew us to each other. The only time I remember his drive being higher than mine was in the first year or so of our marriage. Since then, I have been the one wanting more.

We talked about it last night and I explained it thusly: I prefer sex. If not sex, romance. If not romance, quality time.

It is the complete absence of all three for a period of time that has me feeling disappointed with the marriage.
Now, understand that I am not talking about having these things every single day–this was said more in a spirit of “in general” or “overall these are the things I need in our relationship”.

At times, he seems to not want to deliver on ANY of these points and just do his “duties”–which include going to Mass, then going to work, then coming home and playing with kids and helping out with house (although don’t get the wrong idea–I do the BULK of the household care). These are the things which must be done every day; the wife will always be there and so if she is ignored for one day, who cares, she’ll be there the next. The problem is that this attitude can stretch into days or weeks on end and I start to feel resentful.

It is plain ol’ taking for granted going on here.

Steve, thank you for braving the water here and telling me your story. There are a lot of similarities. I do give my husband lots of praise for the things he does, usually right then and there. The ONLY thing I nag him about is the lack of intimacy in our lives. Other than that, I am a pleasant and giving spouse to him. (He comes to this forum also and I keep waiting for him to show up here and start confirming or denying what I am writing! LOL)

Thank you everyone for your thoughts.

Carrie

 

[carrieloon]

I continued to think on my book I am going to write about this topic last night and what things I would like to see…what kind of format, etc.
I was thinking of going two ways with it:
First, a short but sweet book in a bulleted-type format that gives ideas. Something like “Keeping the Love Alive in a Catholic Marriage” and including (stealing?? ) some of the fabulous ideas that you all have given me. Such as, putting date night ideas in a hat and taking turns drawing them out, and things like that. Interspersed in there would be the uniquely Catholic things that spouses could share together, such as “Mass and a meal afterwards” or “Attend Eucharistic Adoration together”.

The other idea for a book was a more theologically based and comprehensive book on marital relationships. Sortof a “Five Love Languages” meets “Theology of the Body” with lots of Biblical references thrown in. The “ideas” listed above would, in this book, be a chapter on how to keep the spark alive as opposed to the entire book.

Ok, you Greg Popcak fans. Is this what his book is like? If it is, then I am a day late and a dollar short–AS USUAL!!



Carrie

 

[Mike_Rainville]

carrieloon:

… would do anything I ask–unless it involves giving himSELF to me. Chores are how he shows his love to me, I guess.
…
Anybody have any suggestions for me?

Carrie

When we were very young, my mother was very nervous at night, often hearing suspicious noises that sounded like prowlers (sometimes thee were!). It was always my father who would investigate, but I don’t think she ever considered that he was risking his life for his family. No greater love…

Remember the TV soft drink commercial of a beautiful, long haired girl (very modestly dressed) on a picnic with her boyfriend – all she said was "Your wine, sir! She spoke very, very softly.
It gave me goose bumps, every time. (I’m not just suggesting a picnic, though it probably wouldn’t hurt.) Is your husband the head of your family? Would you treat him differently if he were Jesus Christ?

Pray the Rosary together and read, no study, the encyclical on
Christian Marriage by Pope Pius IX

I would also recommend:

“Covenanted Happiness” by Cormac Burke
“A Severe Mercy” and “Under the Mercy” by Sheldon Vanauken
“A Grief Observed” by C.S. Lewis (movie: Shadowlands)

The last would be especially useful for your husband. What touched me was when he prayed to God to transfer his wife’s sufferings to him, to ease her pain. The last three are about very short marriages, where the wife dies far too young, in one case childless. Just because men don’t always show their feelings doesn’t mean they don’t have them.

 

[SteveG]

carrieloon:

The other idea for a book was a more theologically based and comprehensive book on marital relationships. Sortof a “Five Love Languages” meets “Theology of the Body” with lots of Biblical references thrown in. The “ideas” listed above would, in this book, be a chapter on how to keep the spark alive as opposed to the entire book.

Ok, you Greg Popcak fans. Is this what his book is like? If it is, then I am a day late and a dollar short–AS USUAL!!

Sorry, but he already wrote it. He uses plenty of scripture quotes, totally integrates it with JPII’s thoughts on Theology of the Body, and discusses in depth, the love languages (though he uses only three, vs five). Interspersed with lots of excercises, quizzes, and points to ponder that keep it from becoming heavy handed. He also writes in a very accessible (although somewhat corny) way that makes for easy reading. From what you say here, I think you’re going to really enjoy this book. I just feel bad that he stole your idea.

If you do end up enjoying his book, I’d also recommend his parenting book, called ‘Parenting with Grace’

God Bless

 

[carrieloon]

Mike,
Thank you for your response.

Some of it confused me, though. I am hoping you can clarify it for me. I hope this comes off with the right “tone”, you never know with the internet.

What I gathered from your post is that a wife should show deference and respect to her husband and that it is THIS quality which makes her appealing in his eyes.

I would agree that this is an area that I need some work in. Both because of my own naturally strong personality and because that is the way my husband likes and prefers our interactions. He wants to be the spiritual head of the family–without question–but in nearly all other areas he is content for me to be the boss.

The “wine sir” commercial really threw me for a loop! I am not sure what to take from that, or what to glean. Can you help me?

As far as treating him as I would Jesus, well, no of course I don’t. Jesus was not a married man.

Now to get down to the nitty gritty. Do I respect my husband? Yes, unequivocally. Do I tell him this and show appreciation, both verbal and non? Yes. Do I cut him down or demean him? Absolutely not.

I do special things for him (such as cooking and freezing meals for him so that he ALWAYS eats a homecooked meal, breakfast lunch and supper–hot, too, none of this cold cereal stuff for him!) I do this because he likes it and it is spoken entirely in his love language–believe me, I don’t get much out of cooking for days at a time with two little ones underneath my feet! But I do it because I love him and it makes him happy.

Here is one thing that I keep hearing that I think might improve things immensely: Pray together. We “pray” together but not PRAY TOGETHER, if that makes any sense.
He prefers to keep his spiritual life completely secret. I think it is intimacy of the deepest kind and it may scare both of us to really bare our very souls in that way. So we pray before meals, and with our kids, and we of course pray for each other, but we do not pray together.
I remember I asked him to do this with me one time and he said, What prayer should I say? I replied to say whatever is in his heart at the moment (we were lying in bed, in the dark, so there was no fear of me seeing him or thinking he looked silly). He hesitated, then hesitated some more and without having a “pat” prayer to turn to (such as the Lord’s Prayer) he couldn’t do it. He could not show me what was inside his soul. He finally said that those things were for him and God only.
I never told him but this really hurt me and made me feel very excluded from a MAJOR portion of his life. His devotion to the Church takes up a lot of his time and to cut me out of that loop says a lot to me.
I do realize that what I was asking him to do would be hard for any of us.

Well, I got off on a tangent there. I will look into those references that you cited, Mike, and thanks for responding!

Carrie

 

[carrieloon]

AAAAAGGHHHHH, Steve, I knew it!

My good ideas are always a little too late.
I should write a book about all the inventions I have come up with that I later saw in stores, except who on earth would buy it but me. lol

At any rate, I already purchased the book this morning and I am excited about it arriving here!

It sounds strange, but I think that he needs to hear from a Catholic source that not only is it beneficial, but also necessary, to put your spouse first (well second to God of course) and do not take them for granted.

I’ll let you know what our book review is!

 

[SteveG]

carrieloon:

AAAAAGGHHHHH, Steve, I knew it!

OK, not to deluge you, but as I get a better sense of your husband (of course from your viewpoint ), I continue to think of things that might appeal to him. Have him check out this website…

e5men.com/

…It’s a concept based on Ephesians 5:25…
*** Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her.***
…Which I think might be right up his alley.

 

[carrieloon]

Steve,
This is too funny.
You do indeed have a good sense of my husband.

He is already an E5 man and, coincidentally, today is the day of fasting for them.

Yes I do realize that all of this is from my viewpoint only. I expect that he will stumble across this eventually and then we will see how accurate my painting of him is.
I don’t know what kind of impression I have given of him but he is anything but a wimp (he is a former Marine sniper) and he will have no problem writing, “Honey this stuff you wrote about XYZ is just complete exaggeration!!”

Although I really don’t think he would…just to go on record.

 

[LauraL]

Carrie,

I cannot recommend highly enough a little pamphlet from John Barger, convert and founder/editor/publisher of Sophia Institute Press: “Do You Love Me?” The first time I read it, I sobbed, it was so sweet and so affirming of my own ideals of what marriage should be.

This pamphlet is the reproduction of a talk Barger gave to a men’s group, only a few months after the death of his first wife.

You can find it and other lovely books at www.sophiainstitute.com

God bless you!

 

[SteveG]

carrieloon:

Steve,
This is too funny.
You do indeed have a good sense of my husband.

He is already an E5 man and, coincidentally, today is the day of fasting for them.

yes, I know, and I’ve already blown it. Temperance is one of my many, many weaknesses. I do try to give myself up to my wife in so many other ways that I hope I’ll be forgiven.

carrieloon:

I don’t know what kind of impression I have given of him…

For what’s it’s worth (not much I know), I don’t think the impression is a bad one. He sounds like a great Catholic guy, great father, and overall great husband who just needs a little help (as most of us guys do) in how to relate romantically to his wife. Nothing insurmountable, and no impression of ‘wimpiness’ whatsoever.

 

[The_Rigbys]

I tend to agree with the earlier posts by Steve and Mike, and would like to make a few more comments along those lines. (I’m a wife, BTW. )

Ephesians 5:22-33 says that, just as wives need love, husbands need respect. This goes beyond the ordinary respect we’d give to any fellow human. The word is sometimes translated as reverence, or even fear (analogous to the “fear of the Lord”).

Most wives probably think they’re doing a good job of respecting their husbands, just as most husbands think they’re doing a good job of loving their wives. As we’ve seen on this thread, though, the other party doesn’t always perceive it that way. This can lead to a dangerous trap. When a wife feels she’s not loved, she’s likely to become resentful, and stop trying so hard to show reverence for her husband. When a husband feels he’s not respected, he’s likely to become resentful, and stop trying so hard to show love for his wife. And so on, back and forth. This often happens unconsciously. No matter “who started it,” someone has to be the first one to step out in faith and break the cycle.

Of course, it’s up to you to prayerfully decide if this is relevant to your situation. From what you’ve said, though, you sound a bit like me. Out of all the teachings of the Church, I sometimes think this is the hardest one for me to follow.

(In case you’re interested, I’ve just started a new thread: “How does a wife ‘respect her husband’?”)

God bless,
Mrs. R

 

[CARose]

Hi Carrie,

You said earlier …

carrieloon:

…Here is one thing that I keep hearing that I think might improve things immensely: Pray together. …
I remember I asked him to do this with me one time and he said, What prayer should I say? I… He finally said that those things were for him and God only.
,this really hurt me and made me feel very excluded from a MAJOR portion of his life. …

I was thinking that it might be a bit much to ask him to participate in extemporaneous prayers together, right off the bat. It’s seems analogous to running the Marathon the first time you set out to train in running. Heck, many Catholics aren’t comfortable with any form of oral extemporaneous prayer (something we could benefit from learning from the Protestant Converts among us).

You might want to try the Rosary or the St. Joseph Chaplet instead. If you want to include the kids, the St. Joseph Chaplet is a GREAT way to introduce your kids to the Mysteries of the Rosary and you finish all 20 Mysteries in 15 minutes. I found it to be an excellent way to help my daughter learn the mysteries, without her getting burnt out by the time it took to get through them.

My prayers continue to go out to you and yours,

CARose

 

[carrieloon]

You know, Rose, as soon as I posted that I thought that I should clarify but I didn’t.

I wasn’t asking him what to say, he was asking me. The general convo went something like this:
W: Let’s pray together.
H: What prayer?
W: Oh I wasn’t thinking of a particular prayer, just thinking that we could say a prayer together for our marriage and our life.
H: (stumped and afraid) I don’t think I could do that. My prayers are between me and God.

So the whole exchange left me feeling that his faith, which comprises SO much of what and who he is, is off limits to me. I’m sure he didn’t mean for it to sound that way, though.
There is also some history between us that makes things trickier. For a while in our marriage, he kinda emotionally abandoned me while he searched for the truth about faith and life. He “didn’t know where a wife fit into things anymore”.
I am still sensitive to anything that sounds like I am being shut out.
I know this is my issue to get over and I have, mostly. I don’t even know why I brought that particular conversation up (I rarely if ever think about it) except to say that I would one day like to have the kind of intimacy in my marriage that would literally allow us to bare our souls to each other.
How cool!

Carrie

P.S. I just wanted to say to all the posters that you have to be the most kind and caring group of people I’ve ever encountered on the internet. God bless you all!