Putting your marital relationship first..?

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Ok, now I know that I must be exaggerating.

Ham, my husband frequently initiates lovemaking. He just does it out of respect for my wishes, as opposed to any great desire that he feels for me. Not every time but a majority of the time.

The technical aspects I was referring to was not so much the “insert tab A into slot B” type instructions but more of ideas on things to do together. He wants to wait until bedtime to think of me as his wife and then decide whether we will make love or not. As you can imagine, this does not work. Because by that time he is too tired to do anything but sleep.
He told me last night that he will never think about sex as long as our children are awake or around. During those times, I will be sortof like a companion to him. The problem is that I think he has a hard time turning the companion feelings off and the lover feelings on.
So he complies with sex, to keep me happy, but it feels empty to me without the desire from him.

Note: I am not wanting him to paw all over me or anything like that whatsoEVER. I would, however, like some respectful desire from time to time so that I can remember what it feels like to be someone’s lover.
As I said in a post waaaay up above, in the absence of that, romance would be great. In the absence of THAT, quality time would be great.

He goes to bed by 9:00 every night and so there is a mad rush to get the kids to bed early so that I can have some time with him. In the summer this is much harder as it is light outside. He will not go to bed later than that and really resents me if I insist on him doing that so he can spend time with me.

I am last on his list.

Carrie, who is enjoying this pity party for some sick reason. 😛
 
9:00? Sheesh…I have never heard of anyone going to bed that early. What time does he get up and go to work? Maybe he is a morning person and you guys would be better or spending your “time” together in the morning before the kids get up.

One thing I am finding (we havent been married that long) is when we spend our “time” together too late at night I have a hard time sleeping afterwards because of all the adrenaline. It’s the equivalent of running a couple of miles and then trying to go to sleep.

Does your husband ever take a vacation? It really sounds like you guys need an island get-away or something. And if you can’t afford that maybe a camping trip without the kids will do. Or even a night at a cheap motel away from the kids.

I really think what your husband needs to do is actually schedule time “to be a husband.” I understand his predicament because I am pretty busy too. I work out 3-5 days a week, have a fulltime job and sometimes two part-time teaching jobs, a part-time private practice, am on the board of two nonprofit groups, and right now my wife and I are taking Italian classes. Your husband probably has a calendar with 9 million things on it and just figures he will be a husband in his free time. Well the problem is with busy people, we never have any “free” time.
My solution is to work my tail off during the week and jealously guard my free time during the weekend to spend time with my wife. I also include my wife in any activity that I am involved with that I can include her. For example, she works out and runs with me.
Your husband may actually need to block off time for you. Maybe it could just start out at one night a week. He can just put a big X on his calendar for Thursday nights and refuse to let anything conflict with it. You guys can hire a permenant babysitter for that night (grandma and grandpa might be a good start) and every week schedule something fun to do. You can promise yourself that it will be a different date every week. You can translate that into the bedroom too. Something different every week? It can be a game to see who is the most creative.

Having scheduled time together might not be the spontaneity you are looking for, but it may be the only alternative to guarantee that your relationship gets the attention it needs.

I hope this helps.

Jeff
 
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carrieloon:
Carrie, who is enjoying this pity party for some sick reason. 😛
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:dancing: It’s my party and I’ll cry if I want to…cry if I want to … cry if I want to. You would cry too if it happend to you. :rotfl:
  • (couldn’t resist) :p*
 
Jeff,
Thank you for your replies. Honestly the kindness that I see here just brings tears to my eyes. (ok, so I am emotional today…)

He would not block time out for me. I think that he feels that he already has so many responsibilities that to add one more thing in would do him in.

I can see him agreeing to a babysitter and nite out twice a month, but I would have to insist on it, arrange it, pick where we were going, etc. He goes along with whatever I want but there seems to be little enthusiasm on his end. I want so badly to be important enough to him that he will voluntarily make time for me. This is not something I can force though, no matter how much I think I can. All the books in the world will not convince him to do this.

I have suggested the morning many times to him and he is not willing to get up any earlier (he gets up at 5:00) simply to have sex. Yet he says that this is typically when he feels the most desire for me and has a hard time feeling it at night, at the end of a long day. So I feel a bit in between a rock and a hard place there–this is when his desire is, yet he won’t do it then lest he be late for church.

Really I am okay with a schedule. At one point about a year ago, I asked him to schedule 15 minutes with me at the end of the day. We could talk, play cards, hold hands, read books…the only thing I was really opposed to was to use that time watching television. This lasted about one or two days and then he started to feel resentful and “under the gun”, as if he HAD to be doing yet another thing. It was not pleasant for either of us and he had a “let’s get this over with” attitude with me. Very awkward for both of us so we quit. Plus, he had a tendency to sit on the couch and stare at me and say, Well what are we supposed to do now?
Truth was, I didn’t know…I just needed a connection with him to fill in the gaps that are currently in my life. I have no adult interaction throughout the day.
He is not responsible for FILLING that gap but whatever small thing he is able to do sure helps.

That’s why I am so desperately searching for a book. Sounds nuts, but if he read a book by a Catholic author that said, Husbands you should be willing to devote 15 minutes to your wife every day so that she remains the bride of your youth (and not a used up old hag, lol) he would do it in a heartbeat and that would be the end of that problemo.
Btw, I use bride of his youth in a metaphorical way. I want to feel that I am his WIFE and not merely a co-parent. Time spent with me would go a long way towards that goal.
 
OK your last two posts brought a few other thoughts to mind.

Far be it from me to ever suggest that someone stop attending daily mass, but…it seems to me that this may need to be put on hold for a while. I know this is a tough thing for a devout Catholic to do, but just some food for thought.

Saint Francis of Assisi once told his monks that if they were in the midst of the Beatific Vision and a tramp knocked at their door asking for a cup of cold water, turning away from the heavenly vision to help the tramp would be the real heaven, and turning away from the tramp to keep the blissful vision would be turning from God’s face.

Seems like it might applicable here, no? It seems like he’s doing a great thing (going to mass), and it’s even being called an obligation. But it’s really not. Sunday is obigatory. Daily is a choice. If one can get to daily mass without having an adverse affect on their family, fantastic. But if not, it may be something that has to wait until circumstances allow for it.

Popcak even talks about this (I believe in his parenting book, though it may be in the marriage book). He has a chapter in there where he discusses a frustration he had in his own life. He talks about how prior to being married and having children, he had a wonderful prayer life. Frequent visits for adoration, silent rosaries, regular queit prayer time, etc. He recalls his struggle at first dealing with the conflicting priorities of family life that were ‘interfering’ with his prayer life.

He then discusses how he finally realized that at this point in his life, he simply wasn’t going to be able to have that kind of prayer life. He suggests that instead we make the things we do for our families (including our wives) our prayers instead. You know the ‘little way’ of Terese of Liseaux. That the time given to your spouse (even though you might like to go to mass on a weekday) is a prayer as well if it is offered up as such.

Don’t get me wrong. He doesn’t advocate abandoning prayer, the rosary, etc. Keep struggling to find time for them. But realize that our vocation and our duties are to our families and that we may need to make some sacrifices here as well. These sacrifices themselves can be another prayer.

I hope this makes some sense.
 
Steve,
It makes perfect sense of course. I think that Padre Pio makes some similar points and has one really good zinger type phrase but danged if I can remember it now! My husband even printed it out and carries it in his wallet to remind him that his family is his first priority as well as his vocation in life.

He swears that the daily Mass does not interfere with things. I think that it does but am not sure to what extent. That is, I don’t know if things would improve, improve drastically, or stay the same, should he cut out Mass.

I do know that this one little thing refreshes his soul like nothing else. He starts his day calm and centered and ready for the stress and baloney that his company is so good at dishing out. I would hate to (and will not) be the one who takes that away from him. If he makes the decision, fine.

I do not expect him to make the decision to stop daily Mass, btw.

I think part of it is that he has unreasonable thoughts as to how much effort is involved in sustaining a marriage. I think he believes you can put the minimal effort in and “love” will do the rest. It is not enough that he loves me, as harsh as that sounds.

At the same time, I am only looking for VERY small things from him and realize that even that will be hard to do on a regular basis with 2 (soon to be 3) little kids under foot.

I would love to bring him to this thread but I have said so much already that is personal in nature that I think at this point he would just be mad. I do believe, though, that he needs to see that there are people out there who do not think that I am being unreasonable for asking for 15 min a day of his time.

Butttttt, there I go trying to change him again.
:tsktsk:
 
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carrieloon:
I would love to bring him to this thread but I have said so much already that is personal in nature that I think at this point he would just be mad. I do believe, though, that he needs to see that there are people out there who do not think that I am being unreasonable for asking for 15 min a day of his time.
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Mass was only a suggestion. Overall, priorities should be…
God, Wife, Children. Can say it much simpler than that.

And I’d strongly recommend NOT bringing him to this thread at this point. I think you are right on and it would do nothing but upset him.
 
When you priortize things in your life they should be something like this:

  1. *]God
    *]Spouse
    *]Children
    *]Other Family
    *]Friends
    *]Job etc…

    We make sure that God is **always ** first and our spouse is second. Everyone else comes after that.

    We have to have faith in where HE will take us. It’s scary but it’s always fun! 👍
 
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Mistermerlin:
When you priortize things in your life they should be something like this:


  1. *]God
    *]Spouse
    *]Children
    *]Other Family
    *]Friends
    *]Job etc…
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  1. And the great thing about this list is that the best way to show God our love is to love the Spouse (first), and the children he has placed in our care.

    Finally, one last post for the day. At this point you probably think I am a shill for Popcak. Really I’m not:D I just really love his work. Not sure if you are aware, but he actually is a Catholic family and marriage counselor. Go to his site, and they have some information on how to contact him for counseling if you think that may be in order.

    exceptionalmarriages.com/quiz.htm
 
I completely agree with the God, spouse, children list.

I think that he would absolutely agree with that, too. He doesn’t see how he is not living up to that though. As I have said, he thinks that because he loves me fiercely that he is doing his part.

I need more than an exhausted man who has trouble staying awake while he halfheartedly initiates sex with me or tries to talk to me. I want to feel that I am as important as the other things in his life, if only for a few minutes a day.

Steve,
I agree that him coming here would be a mistake at this point. In the beginning it would have been okay but now that I have admitted to having thoughts of infidelity I think it would tear him apart. Even typing that out makes me cry. I hate to think of myself as being that weak, or my marriage being that vulnerable. Mostly I hate thinking of myself as a person who would even entertain such an awful thought.
 
after you last post. I just want to make sure this doesn’t get missed, so I’ll post it again…
Code: 
Finally, one last post for the day.  At this point you probably think I am a shill for Popcak. Really I'm not:D I just really love his work. Not sure if you are aware, but he actually is a Catholic family and marriage counselor. Go to his site, and they have some information on how to contact him for counseling if you think that may be in order.

[exceptionalmarriages.com/quiz.htm](http://www.exceptionalmarriages.com/quiz.htm)
and keep heart! Nothing here that can’t be fixed! God Bless. I am outta here for the day.
 
Greg, (oops I mean Steve, LOL)
Thanks for the website. I will check it out later. Right now I gotta take the kiddies outside.

I have not given up. I am the most tenacious and optimistic person you will ever meet. Just in a temporary funk b/c I can’t seem to get him to see that we have a good marriage but it can be so much better, if only he’d open up to the possibility.

Take care!
 
Not sure if someone already mentioned this book - **The Five Love Languages: How to Express Heartfelt Commitment to Your Mate
**by Gary Chapman You would both need to read through it. I found it very insightful. Also, you could try a Marriage Encounter weekend as well. Or just a long weekend vacation without the kids.

HW
 
Carrieloon,

Does your husband possibly have ADD? I ask because of this part of your post:

This lasted about one or two days and then he started to feel resentful and “under the gun”, as if he HAD to be doing yet another thing. It was not pleasant for either of us and he had a “let’s get this over with” attitude with me. Very awkward for both of us so we quit. Plus, he had a tendency to sit on the couch and stare at me and say, Well what are we supposed to do now?

I’m the only non-ADDer in my house. Hubby manages his through meditation and a busy schedule. Kids are on medication during the day, but you can set your watch to when it’ll wear out (around 8pm) based on the activity level in the house.

That sense of ‘itchiness’ over not doing anything is a major symtom of ADD. So is the making of lists (whether on paper or in one’s head) - filling up one’s day completely from rising out of bed to falling asleep.

Hubby is up at 5am…meditates for an hour, exercises for another, then starts his day. He works in a field which is compatible with ADD so that’s a blessing. Then he comes home and moves from one task to another until 9pm when it’s time for bed. It used to drive me nuts until I realized it just was the way his brain functions.

Getting him to go to a movie or even watch one on tv with the family is a challenge, but he does so at least once a month. And we schedule in board games for ‘family night’ monthly as well. If 7pm rolls around and we aren’t at that table, however, because we’re off doing other things, he can become irritable because he naturally has another 3 or 4 things to tick off his day before bedtime. As you can see, even family time becomes something that is scheduled, not spontaneous, with ADDers. He has explained that if he sits down for more than 20 minutes he will likely fall asleep and he can’t allow himself to do that before 9pm or his internal clock will get out of whack making the next day difficult for him. (He actually fell asleep at a performance of Phantom of the Opera **with **Michael Crawford, mind you, almost front row seats! And yes, if the movie has any slow parts to it, he’s out like a light). The kids explain it’s pretty much the same for them. They don’t ‘mean’ to be constantly moving from one task to another - they just ‘do’. So understanding that about the condition has helped me with my sanity immensely.

It seems you might have to make sure whatever you do with your husband for bonding is an ‘activity’ because just sitting is uncomfortable for him (he probably has no idea why…it just is). And while I agree marital union would fall under the ‘activity’ category, he’s already explained he is not comfortable with that while the kids are awake, ruling that option out. Perhaps taking a 20 minute walk around the neighborhood would be a good start. It’s good for your health…you can hold hands or not…you can talk or not…but it should eliminate that staring across the room with the ‘what now?’ look.

My husband did not know he was ADD until our son was diagnosed with it. When that happened and we read up on the condition he recognized himself and several of his siblings in that category. It sure helped explain alot of the bad memories he had about growing up and his experiences in school. For me it helped immensely to understand my children and my husband. I feel like the odd man out sometimes, but knowing much of their behavior is just from the way their brains function helps keep me from taking many things personally. It helps that I’m very flexible and do not need a lot of structure in my life. I actually do better in a little bit of chaos so my house of ADDers is perfect. 🙂
 
Oh girl, I don’t know where you live, but if you lived by me, I would come over and watch those kiddos so you and your hubby could go and spend some time together! 🙂

I know that’s not the “real” issue here, but I can’t help wanting to help you in some way, nonetheless.

This thread is interesting to me, because in some ways, I am very similar to your husband. Because I tend to have a very low sex drive, this thread has openend my eyes to some of the frustation my husband must be feeling. I am exhausted by days end and don’t particularily feel like “exerting” myself like that at 10:00 at night. (There are many other reasons why my sex drive is low, but I won’t get into that here. This is your thread!) 😃

Although I don’t have an answer to your question, and am not much help for you, I wanted to post anyways to thank you for openly talking about such a private issue. I plan on getting Greg Popcak’s book as a result of this thread and hopefully it can help both of our marriages!

Keeping you in prayers.
 
This has been said before, but I’ll say it again. I’d definitely suggest a Marriage Encounter weekend, sooner, rather than later. If ever a couple needed to talk… Also, a number of couples in our ME group recommend the Love Languages book, and there’s even a weekend based on it (possibly for couples who’ve already been on an ME weekend). For marriages in serious trouble, there is the Retrouvaille weekend, also, which has follow-up afterward.
 
You know, this is a thought I have tossed around before…about the ADD.
His dad most definitely has it as well as one of his siblings. He is constantly on the move as you described and has an almost impossible time staying still or relaxing. He also falls asleep instantly if he slows down.

Btw, I need to clarify that I am NOT expecting him to have sex while my kids are still awake! My goodness, no.

I was talking about little signs of desire or ‘connection’ between us. He can’t even entertain the thought until the kids are asleep or gone. So if I were to come up to him and say, “Do you want to make love tonight after the kids are in bed?” he would be horrified. So my only alternative is to wait until we are both in bed which by that time…you guessed it!!..he is exhausted and doesn’t even want to think about it. I think if I could plant the seed earlier in the night he would be more open to it…have an opportunity to think about it and look forward to it.

Likewise a kiss or hug that went beyond the strictly platonic type would be offlimits because of the same reason.
The relationship feels very sterile to me because of this. Many wives out there probably think I am a nutcase, and maybe I am.

Maybe he is right in that I expect too much from him.
I do not want this stuff every night but I sure would like him to be open to it happening, at the very least. Right now, his mind is closed to anything except after the kids go to bed and before his bedtime (which is a window of about 10 minutes, so I have to work fast). No flirting or trying to establish the connection as husband and wife prior to that. Like I said, this can happen in sexual and nonsexual ways. The same feeling could be accomplished if he said he wanted to play cards for 15 minutes before bedtime, although it wouldn’t be as fun for me. 😃

Carrie
 
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carrieloon:
…That is a key element here…he is so worn out from getting up early for Mass every day, working all day long, then playing with kids that there is nothing left for me. He sees no other alternative, as Mass and work and kids are duties that must be done. I can wait. I’m not going anywhere. I am here for life and have no alternative but to wait for him to open his eyes and SEE ME.

Carrie
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Carrie,

Scott Hahn gave a talk at the Rockford Catholic Family Conference that really affected me.

I had a lot of the same thing, Mass, work kids. I couldn’t really deny any of those and ended up with little time\energy for my wife.

Scott talked about his custom of going to Adoration each evening. He needed to spend time with Jesus, but it took a toll on his wife, leaving her to bath the kids and put them to bed by herself most evenings.

One evening as he was heading out, he saw Kimberly being particularly harried and realized that maybe God wanted him to spend some time with the other Sacrament he gave him, the Sacrament of Matrimony represented in his wife.

That really touched me, as I realized I was doing much the same. I was not giving my Sacrament the attention it deserves. I realized the greatest gift I could give my children was a living example of how a husband can love a wife. That is something that is desperately lacking in today’s world.

Marriage is an ongoing Sacrament, a visible sign of God’s Grace. It is the one Sacrament that the laity can daily offer to back to God.

Take the time out each day to celebrate it in some way.
 
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carrieloon:
I think part of it is that he has unreasonable thoughts as to how much effort is involved in sustaining a marriage. I think he believes you can put the minimal effort in and “love” will do the rest. It is not enough that he loves me, as harsh as that sounds.
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Gosh, if you’ve been able to say this to him I don’t understand how we wouldn’t ‘get’ what the issue is. It seem “family first” to him is for the entire family ‘as a whole’ and you fall under that umbrella, rather than as a separate component to that family obligation. Marital relations is separate from family relations. I don’t think he knows that yet you seem to have a clear sense of the distinction.

How did your courtship go? Couldn’t you just try to go back to those times? Certainly at that point he was putting you at the top of his list…ask him why that changed for him once you were married and remind him that it shouldn’t be the case - not by Catholic standards.
 
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carrieloon:
I was talking about little signs of desire or ‘connection’ between us. He can’t even entertain the thought until the kids are asleep or gone. So if I were to come up to him and say, “Do you want to make love tonight after the kids are in bed?” he would be horrified. So my only alternative is to wait until we are both in bed which by that time…you guessed it!!..he is exhausted and doesn’t even want to think about it. I think if I could plant the seed earlier in the night he would be more open to it…have an opportunity to think about it and look forward to it.
Carrie
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Girl, slip him a note in his lunch then…or post a sticky on the bathroom mirror (assuming you have your own bathroom the kids do not access).

If he is ADD though, you may never get past that feeling of being ‘another thing on his list’ because that honestly is the only way people with the condition function. Routine is so important for a sense of ‘normalcy’. Spontaneity is out the window…if it happens do not ever not take him up on the offer - for whatever it is, because it’s a rare treat! I’m fortunate in that my hubby constantly tells me he loves me and is not embarrassed to hold hands or kiss in front of the kids or in public so I get plenty of reassurance that he’s thinking of me fondly throughout a day.

Maybe he does think of you throughout the day but is not comfortable showing it or saying it. Or you know what? Maybe you just have to be the one to initiate touching/hand holding/hugging/kissing throughout the relationship. If he pulls away or admonishes you for that (since you said mentioning something romantic would result in a look of horror from him), then you two really need to talk about public displays of affection. See how there really is so much more going on beneath the surface here?

Marriage Encounter followed by counseling…and maybe even an ADD specialist some day if he is ADD to help him understand just what that means for him and for your family.
 
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