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Xantippe
Guest
You know, it is possible that you are being quarrelsome without noticing it!
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Xantippe
Guest
Tony, I feel stressed and a bit nuts just reading your posts. Your communication style is like Chinese water torture.I was hoping I may not find dismissiveness and sarcasm on a Christian site such as this. I’m not just trying to make my wife feel bad; I’m trying to build.
I haven’t gotten to the end of the thread, but I think you need to accept the possibility that you are being passive aggressive at home, that that is contributing to conflict in your home, and that you need to change the way you communicate.
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Trishie
Guest
What is confusing is that there isn’t a one-size-fits-all writing style.
Tony’s style and thought progression is a legitimate one, and would be normal in some professions.
I’m fairly sure my own style and content sometimes irritates and annoys.
It’s easy to misunderstand someone based on their postings, but . I think most of us have been misread, and more often than we probably know
Tony’s style and thought progression is a legitimate one, and would be normal in some professions.
I’m fairly sure my own style and content sometimes irritates and annoys.
It’s easy to misunderstand someone based on their postings, but . I think most of us have been misread, and more often than we probably know
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Xantippe
Guest
But it is pertinent to his question about “quarrelsome wives” if his “style” is actually a lot more provocative than he realizes…
He may be (without realizing it!) doing what would be called “nagging” if a woman were doing it.
While I’m thinking about it, here are some reading suggestions for Tony and his wife (although marriage counseling is probably a great idea, too):
–How Not to Hate Your Husband After Kids (absolutely fantastic book, some bad language, probably the most relevant, covers a lot of ground in a quick read)
–Five Love Languages
–Boundaries in Marriage (don’t agree 100% about details, it’s too tit-for-tat, but the overall concepts are good)
–probably any book by John Gottman (for example, Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work)
Assuming two mentally healthy, normal people, the reason the “quarrelsome wives” angle is going to be unhelpful is that it’s blaming marital issues entirely on one person, whereas relationship issues normally involve at least two people. Sure, there are cases (for example, serious mental illness or addiction or serial cheating) where you can hang 99% of the blame on one individual, but in a normal, fixable marriage, both people have their issues. And in a way, that’s good news. If the OP’s wife were 99% responsible for their marriage issues, there’d be virtually nothing he could do to fix that. But if he has some responsibility for creating unnecessary friction in their marriage, that’s good news–that means that he can have significant positive impact himself, without “fixing” his wife, which seems to be the approach he currently wants to pursue.
It’s a cliche, but that’s really the most important thing that the OP needs to remember–he is the only person that he can fix. He can’t fix his wife.
He may be (without realizing it!) doing what would be called “nagging” if a woman were doing it.
While I’m thinking about it, here are some reading suggestions for Tony and his wife (although marriage counseling is probably a great idea, too):
–How Not to Hate Your Husband After Kids (absolutely fantastic book, some bad language, probably the most relevant, covers a lot of ground in a quick read)
–Five Love Languages
–Boundaries in Marriage (don’t agree 100% about details, it’s too tit-for-tat, but the overall concepts are good)
–probably any book by John Gottman (for example, Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work)
Assuming two mentally healthy, normal people, the reason the “quarrelsome wives” angle is going to be unhelpful is that it’s blaming marital issues entirely on one person, whereas relationship issues normally involve at least two people. Sure, there are cases (for example, serious mental illness or addiction or serial cheating) where you can hang 99% of the blame on one individual, but in a normal, fixable marriage, both people have their issues. And in a way, that’s good news. If the OP’s wife were 99% responsible for their marriage issues, there’d be virtually nothing he could do to fix that. But if he has some responsibility for creating unnecessary friction in their marriage, that’s good news–that means that he can have significant positive impact himself, without “fixing” his wife, which seems to be the approach he currently wants to pursue.
It’s a cliche, but that’s really the most important thing that the OP needs to remember–he is the only person that he can fix. He can’t fix his wife.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
There are many words in this post, but, can you give one example of what YOU define as “quarrelsome”?
Very simply. No need for paragraphs of details.
Very simply. No need for paragraphs of details.
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JMMJ
Guest
I have been thinking about this some. I think my issue is with the title of OPs post. “Quarrelsome wives” sounds like you assert there is a whole category of wives out there who just quarrel all the time, or who are identified that way. It would have been much better to say I have I’m having issue with my wife. She seems to quarrel too much. May seem like a minor detail, but if you are on the receiving end of that kind of a descriptor it most likely is not minor to them at all.
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Annie
Guest
Tony,
Why do you want to know the answer to your question?
Have you already considered various angles, including what you might be doing to contribute to the situation, and now you want to understand a different angle–what one might call the generic angle?
It sounds like your wife might be like this with pretty much everyone, that she has fallen into a habit of negativity, but it may be that she is mostly like that with you.
I just feel like all the replies you have given have not really clarified what, precisely, you want to know.
Why do you want to know the answer to your question?
Have you already considered various angles, including what you might be doing to contribute to the situation, and now you want to understand a different angle–what one might call the generic angle?
It sounds like your wife might be like this with pretty much everyone, that she has fallen into a habit of negativity, but it may be that she is mostly like that with you.
I just feel like all the replies you have given have not really clarified what, precisely, you want to know.
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PJH_74
Guest
I’m sorry, but I don’t have the time to read everything in this tread and my apologies if I repeat something. There is something of a signature I am seeing with both your language and approach to this question. First, as a woman, even using the term “Quarrelsome Wives” gets my blood boiling, it is pretty derogatory. The reality is she is probably doing way more than you are even aware of, especially in emotional processing for the family. You come to her with this combination of things and it is no wonder she’s not in the mood to hear your stuff.In regards to the quarrelsome nature being “valid,” I was just trying to ask contributors to consider that perhaps the quarrels are NOT stemming from a husband who can’t listen, doesn’t fulfill responsibilities, etc. By “valid,” I meant to say that she is legitimately quarrelsome for no apparent reason. We all have at least one plank in our eye at any given time, and I often reflect on how my many imperfections may be impacting my son or marriage. This helps motivate me to actually make changes or grow in areas of weakness. In trying to have a conversation with my wife, I want to be informed about what exactly a quarrelsome wife is and how it can impact her. Anything I bring up is much more meaningful if the opinions/observations are more than just my own.
You may be beginning to ask some of the proper questions. There’s a concept of “Toxic Manhood” that has been making its way around. Some men, especially those oriented towards a more tradition family structure, can get really defensive on this one; so please hear me out. Men are generally raised with this idea that male strength comes from being self reliant, the provider, and that showing emotion is a sign of weakness. This is not a indictment against men who want to live a traditional role as the strong leader type. What it does say is that being a man should have more options that are not looked down on, say being the one who stays home with the kids.
In reaching out on this question here on this forum, you are taking some good steps. As hard as it might seem, your wife should not be your consular here. However you need to go further than this forum. You need to talk to men, a consular, or even a men’s support group about this issue , there is no shame in this and it seems you want to grow. The Knights of Columbus might be a good place to start, often there are some men there that have had long marriages and might have a few things to offer. A men’s group is another possibility. A good one is one that allows men to open up with other men to talk about what being a man is today and what struggles they face today. Even if you don’t agree with everyone’s way of life, sometimes seeing what life’s choices work better when viewed from a different perspective can bring more fulfillment to yours.
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Rhubarb
Guest
It sounds like a marriage counselor or family counselor would be more useful than strangers on a forum. We don’t know the specifics, or what is going on. Anything we could suggest would just be speculation.
Best find the root of your wife’s attitude, be it with her, you, life, her job, or any number of possible things. (not saying it’s any one of those - but it typically takes more than one to quarrel)
Best find the root of your wife’s attitude, be it with her, you, life, her job, or any number of possible things. (not saying it’s any one of those - but it typically takes more than one to quarrel)
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CoffeeFanatic
Guest
I’ll simply make use of an old saying here: ‘It takes two to tango.’
Never look into what will fix your wife’s behavior without taking into account that your own may need amending as well. To be honest, the two of you probably need marriage counseling. Asking a bunch of people on the Internet- especially when we’re only getting a one-sided story and terms thrown around that aren’t clear- is not going to be particularly helpful for you or anyone else.
Never look into what will fix your wife’s behavior without taking into account that your own may need amending as well. To be honest, the two of you probably need marriage counseling. Asking a bunch of people on the Internet- especially when we’re only getting a one-sided story and terms thrown around that aren’t clear- is not going to be particularly helpful for you or anyone else.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
This Imago Dialogue is similar to a presentation we had in our Pre-Cana class on how to communicate better with spouse. I think it’s a very helpful technique.
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Lea101
Guest
I don’t understand your motive here. A quarrelsome wife has the same impact as a quarrelsome husband. Even the Bible goes on and on about a moody wife in some parts.The whole issue though is not the cause of any difficult behavior. More specifically, the question I’m posing in this thread is how have Christians seen quarrelsome women impact their families
There’s nothing really unique about it.
I’m trying my best to assume the best here but it just seems like you want a thread talking about crappy women. For what, I don’t know.“How have you seen an excessively quarrelsome wife impact those around her?”
Edit: that sounded harsher than I intended. Just wanted to say that there’s no real direction or substance to the question, which is why you have been getting unsatisfactory answers
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JMMJ
Guest
Did she just become quarrelsome? Or was she that way before you married her? If it’s the latter then suck it up buttercup. If it’s the former, that means something changed, and you need to find out what it is, and why. Nobody here can tell you what that is. I think maybe some marriage counseling would be a good thing if you aren’t able to figure this out on your own.
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Lea101
Guest
You don’t need to find other perspectives. Just tell her how your situation is affecting your family. Keep it local. If you have to go and look at general answers, it’s probably a sign that there’s no real impact on your home.In trying to express to my wife how some of her behaviors are impacting our home and son, I cannot find many perspectives online that address the impacts of a quarrelsome wife on her home.
When your wife is upset with you, do you really want her to talk about how other wives feel about their husbands, or do you want to hear about how she feels? The latter actually allows a resolution imo.
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Zzyzx_Road
Guest
Speaking of Chinese water torture:
“A continual dripping on a rainy day and a quarrelsome wife are alike” - Proverbs 27:15.
Most women who are quarrelsome are made so by circumstances, but there do exist some women who are quarrelsome by nature. The first are open to resolution provided mortal sin isn’t involved (abuse, addiction, adultery, etc.) that would have to addressed first. The Bible speaks of the second: these never accept responsibility for their nature; it is always about the other person which is often the man in her life but can be literally anyone who “crosses” her. It’s fine to assume the first, that gives a path to possible resolution, but if it’s the second, no resolution, if any, will ever “take” and we are left praying for the children in those families.
We don’t know what kind the OP is dealing with as he isn’t sharing details. I can say from my experience of nearly making a second type my wife that these people can’t fix themselves or be fixed by anything. So if the OP is looking for something logical to present to his wife, I can you right now that isn’t going to work. He has to assume he has a first type on his hands, then figure out how to seek resolution and then if he really finds himself with the second type, then he needs to seek his own counseling on how to deal with it long enough to get the kids raised.
“A continual dripping on a rainy day and a quarrelsome wife are alike” - Proverbs 27:15.
Most women who are quarrelsome are made so by circumstances, but there do exist some women who are quarrelsome by nature. The first are open to resolution provided mortal sin isn’t involved (abuse, addiction, adultery, etc.) that would have to addressed first. The Bible speaks of the second: these never accept responsibility for their nature; it is always about the other person which is often the man in her life but can be literally anyone who “crosses” her. It’s fine to assume the first, that gives a path to possible resolution, but if it’s the second, no resolution, if any, will ever “take” and we are left praying for the children in those families.
We don’t know what kind the OP is dealing with as he isn’t sharing details. I can say from my experience of nearly making a second type my wife that these people can’t fix themselves or be fixed by anything. So if the OP is looking for something logical to present to his wife, I can you right now that isn’t going to work. He has to assume he has a first type on his hands, then figure out how to seek resolution and then if he really finds himself with the second type, then he needs to seek his own counseling on how to deal with it long enough to get the kids raised.
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Convert3
Guest
Hi Tony,Again, I think it is best if you view my question as “How have you seen an excessively quarrelsome wife impact those around her?”
I believe I may have experience similar to yours. The answer is yes.
My ex could have been described as quarrelsome. We were married for thirteen years (now annulled, remarried to another twenty years). Examples included very controlling, selfish attitudes where I could do nothing right.
I was in the Air Force and traveled frequently. Once I was gone for several weeks and came home on Easter Sunday morning. I didn’t bring her a gift. She was on the phone to her mother crying within minutes of my return. Another time we came back from a mission where we had been deployed for a time and mission made national news at the time. Everyone’s families came out to greet us on our return, except for my wife. I walked into the house and was yelled at for being gone and she was scared because of what had been on the news. When our son was born, I couldn’t hold him right, or fed him wrong, or couldn’t change the diaper properly according to her. I did just fine. I couldn’t load the dishwasher properly. It was fine. You get the idea. She started treating me this way when we were with friends.
On holidays when we visited family, it was all about her family. Visits to my family were always limited to a few hours after we spent the holiday with her family.
Once we took a road trip that included a five hour drive. She didn’t say a word. After we arrived she yelled at me because she wanted to “talk” about our problems.
She refused counseling, because she “was never at fault.” She said I should go to counseling on my own.
Her grandmother passed away the day before I had to leave on an assignment. My only thought was to help her make arrangements to get to her family as soon as possible. I took her to the airport and then she started on why all these things are my fault and if I loved her I’d be going with her. She had never asked me to go.
After the divorce she constantly fought me over our son, never wanting me to see him. A judge chewed her out for fighting a father who loved his child, and threatened her to give me full custody if she didn’t abide by the visitation schedule.
My son moved out of her house as soon as he turned eighteen.
She is estranged from her father, sister and had been from her mother, until her mother passed recently.
So, I disagree that a quarrel requires two people to disagree. For reasonable, rational people that may be true. I do agree with others that the term “quarrelsome wives” is a bad term. Men can be that way too.
I hope your situation isn’t like mine was. But my situation made me a lot smarter and led me to finding my wife whom I’ve been married to for twenty years. My son also learned and married a wonderful girl and has a son. My biggest regret is my ex didn’t raise our son in the church. But I’m praying daily on that.
God Bless.
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Harmony
Guest
Thank you for writing this. I was married for over 20 years to a man who turned out to think in a weird way that no one could understand.
I did all the things everyone suggests on threads like this, I talked to him nicely, I assumed the best intentions on his part, etc.
Doing all those good things only works if the other person is a reasonable human being instead of a person who lies all the time and does bad things when you are not looking and thinks in a way that doesn’t make sense and doesn’t think about other people or about being nice instead of mean.
My children have all left the church because they think that I stayed with him for all those years because of being Catholic.
So, people, sometimes when a person has a problem with a spouse, the problem really is with the spouse and the person actually has done all the things you suggest.
I did all the things everyone suggests on threads like this, I talked to him nicely, I assumed the best intentions on his part, etc.
Doing all those good things only works if the other person is a reasonable human being instead of a person who lies all the time and does bad things when you are not looking and thinks in a way that doesn’t make sense and doesn’t think about other people or about being nice instead of mean.
My children have all left the church because they think that I stayed with him for all those years because of being Catholic.
So, people, sometimes when a person has a problem with a spouse, the problem really is with the spouse and the person actually has done all the things you suggest.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
My opinion on a situation like yours, Convert3, is that the spouse has a mental disorder, such as narcissism which we’ve talked about in other threads, or bipolarity which I’ve personally seen causing people to act in the way you describe and often end up estranged from everybody who ever cared about them.
I did allow for that in one of my first posts noting that a mental disorder or even a physical illness, which could give rise to mental symptoms, may be at fault.
If a person who acts like this won’t get help or the doctors cannot adequately help, then it’s a matter of either seeing if you can get it annulled or else figuring out how best to deal with it, keeping in mind the welfare of the children as first priority. This behavior you describe strikes me as well beyond “quarrelsome” however, and into “psychotic”.
I did allow for that in one of my first posts noting that a mental disorder or even a physical illness, which could give rise to mental symptoms, may be at fault.
If a person who acts like this won’t get help or the doctors cannot adequately help, then it’s a matter of either seeing if you can get it annulled or else figuring out how best to deal with it, keeping in mind the welfare of the children as first priority. This behavior you describe strikes me as well beyond “quarrelsome” however, and into “psychotic”.
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Trishie
Guest
When I woke this morning my thought a question that might be introspectively asked
“Do I genuinely love my wife and has she reason in her personal daily reality to know and trust that?
If not, she will know and it will be an ongoing, nagging truth.
And it will show in her responses and behaviour.
And even more so if she lives in the shadow of my disapproval “
As there really isn’t enough to go on, and protecting privacy can justify that on a worldwide forum (eg, I wake up every morning in Australia, one of the many countries represented in CAF)
But we’ve no way of knowing whether my question is true or not.
You can only think within your own mental framework just as any of us can only think and judge within our own perspectives and interpretations, which may mean that it isn’t sufficient to present our marriage difficulties as one half of a couple.
And not on a forum …
… But together as a couple in a wise , fair, trusted environment with a perceptive and just counselor.
“Do I genuinely love my wife and has she reason in her personal daily reality to know and trust that?
If not, she will know and it will be an ongoing, nagging truth.
And it will show in her responses and behaviour.
And even more so if she lives in the shadow of my disapproval “
As there really isn’t enough to go on, and protecting privacy can justify that on a worldwide forum (eg, I wake up every morning in Australia, one of the many countries represented in CAF)
But we’ve no way of knowing whether my question is true or not.
You can only think within your own mental framework just as any of us can only think and judge within our own perspectives and interpretations, which may mean that it isn’t sufficient to present our marriage difficulties as one half of a couple.
And not on a forum …
… But together as a couple in a wise , fair, trusted environment with a perceptive and just counselor.
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Convert3
Guest
Perhaps. When you’re so close to a situation, it can hard to distinguish between the two.This behavior you describe strikes me as well beyond “quarrelsome” however, and into “psychotic”.
Edit to add: All I could see was my world falling apart.
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