Question about forgiveness reply from apologist

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I think I made my point, though…

God forgives, can forgive, and it is to Him alone we should turn in sincere repentance.
 
Sister_Amy said:
I think I made my point, though…

God forgives, can forgive, and it is to Him alone we should turn in sincere repentance.
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It is to Him alone we turn in the sacrament of reconciliation. The priest can only forgive because that power was given to him by God and God alone. The priest imparts God’s forgiveness, not his own personal forgiveness.

It’s really something that is purely a spiritual asset of our faith, and unless you accept it as it was instituted by Jesus Christ, you just won’t “get it.” It’s not something that can be explained to an unbeliever.
 
Sister_Amy said:
I think I made my point, though…

God forgives, can forgive, and it is to Him alone we should turn in sincere repentance.
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I disagree. We should turn to Him immediately when we have sinned. But we submit to His will and also confess our sins to the priest.

Our sins don’t only offend God and hurt us, they also affect the whole church, and in some way the whole world. Those good or bad acts or thoughts we do even secretly, make the world a better or worse place. God is just as well as merciful. It is just of God to require confession to a priest, who is both a representative of God and of the church.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Of course I don’t believe Jesus was the son of God. I’m asking about something else though.

Claire said: They must confess any serious sins to the priest in order to be forgiven.

But in fact we’re finding that this isn’t actually the case. God can forgive sins without them being confessed to a priest.

And apparently God has forgiven sins without them being confessed to a priest, right? People of ‘antiquity?’ Right? They didn’t confess–someone mentioned this earlier. So God forgave them.

So He forgave them but He won’t anymore without the priest saying it’s okay first?
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Let me paraphrase your position on this: that you believe one does not have to confess one’s sin to a priest since God can forgive sin directly. You therefore have problem with Catholic going to priests to confess their sins.

These have been explained in the previous posts. In the nutshell - in a normal daily life a Catholic must recieve a Sacrament of Penance (Reconcialition) for his sins. This Sacrament involves confessing his sins to a priest.

What it actually entails is that when he sins, he must regret it (remorseful),confess it (to a priest), do penance for the sin (usually in a form of said prayers) and finally making restitution (make good what he has committed, in some cases for example it may involve saying sorry or returning back the property stolen, if it’s a sin of stealing). It looks like there are at least four steps for him to do in order to perform the Sacrament of Penance (usually shortened as confession!).

Merely recieving the Sacrament of Penance without genuine repentance is not sufficient for the sin to be absolved completely from the person.

In the case of emergency where death is likely, the intention and effort to recieve the Sacrament must be made. Thus it’s quite common occurances to see a priest being called to a patient death bed so that the patient can confess his sins. However, if due to certain circumsctances that a dying person cannot meet a priest in time, he would still be forgiven as he has the intention to confess. God is a compassionate God.

Hope hat helps.

Have a blessed Good Friday for Catholics and Christians who are going for the service today.

Reuben.
 
Sister_Amy said:
I think I made my point, though…

God forgives, can forgive, and it is to Him alone we should turn in sincere repentance.
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Yes, yes, and yes and no.

I’m unsure about the directionality of the third one.
  • If it is just prima facie, I would say primarily, yes, we turn to God in repentance. But we also “repent” of our offenses to those whom we have offended, because our sinfulness affects not only our relationship with God, but also our relationship with ourselves, and with others in the world (directly or indirectly). Part of the beauty of reconciliation is the realization that one has damaged (or severed) one’s relationship with God and others and it is God, working through the physical presence of the Church that welcomes us back in mercy and forgiveness. But, yes, God has the final Word.
  • But, if it is to abrogate the need for confession, I would say no, for reasons I have posted above.
 
Sister_Amy said:
I think I made my point, though…

God forgives, can forgive, and it is to Him alone we should turn in sincere repentance.
Click to expand...
I answered this in post #4, I think. If you think because God CAN forgive sins outside the sacrament and therefore refuse the sacrament He instituted…then that is a problem and a denial of His will and providence.

As I said, true repentance involves the intent to go to confession when able. When you confess to a priest, you ARE confessing to Christ. The priest has the gift of acting in the person of Christ in the confessional. This gift is from God alone. God alone forgives sins–normatively through His ministers. All this can be found in the Catechism under “Penance-Sacrament”.

That is the Catholic teaching, which is what you have asked for. 🙂
 
Sister_Amy said:
I happened to be browsing the forum and clicked on this thread. The reply to the poster’s question really confused me…

Here’s something the apologist said:

I don’t understand (go figure) why you have to go to a priest. And seriously… what happens if you die on the way? God won’t forgive you?
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I’m not Catholic, but I’ll take a shot that might make sense.

There was an instance in the gospels where Jesus healed a man. But, he told the man to go to the temple right away to fulfill the requirements of the Law of Moses. So, though God can forgive sins without the priest, He expects his followers to fulfill what He requires from the church authorities.

Make sense?

Peace…

MW
 
Mystic_Warrior said:
There was an instance in the gospels where Jesus healed a man. But, he told the man to go to the temple right away to fulfill the requirements of the Law of Moses. So, though God can forgive sins without the priest, He expects his followers to fulfill what He requires from the church authorities.
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That is a decent analogy. 🙂 And I would only emphasize that the Church’s authorities are Christ working through them.
 
Sister_Amy said:
All the same…

God can forgive any sin without it being confessed to a priest.
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From the Catechism:

Only God forgives sin
1441 Only God forgives sins.39 Since he is the Son of God, Jesus says of himself, “The Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins” and exercises this divine power: "Your sins are forgiven."40 Further, by virtue of his divine authority he gives this power to men to exercise in his name.41
1442 Christ has willed that in her prayer and life and action his whole Church should be the sign and instrument of the forgiveness and reconciliation that he acquired for us at the price of his blood. But he entrusted the exercise of the power of absolution to the apostolic ministry which he charged with the "ministry of reconciliation."42 The apostle is sent out “on behalf of Christ” with “God making his appeal” through him and pleading: "Be reconciled to God."43

Reconciliation with the Church
1443 During his public life Jesus not only forgave sins, but also made plain the effect of this forgiveness: he reintegrated forgiven sinners into the community of the People of God from which sin had alienated or even excluded them. A remarkable sign of this is the fact that Jesus receives sinners at his table, a gesture that expresses in an astonishing way both God’s forgiveness and the return to the bosom of the People of God.44

1444 In imparting to his apostles his own power to forgive sins the Lord also gives them the authority to reconcile sinners with the Church. This ecclesial dimension of their task is expressed most notably in Christ’s solemn words to Simon Peter: "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."45 "The office of binding and loosing which was given to Peter was also assigned to the college of the apostles united to its head."46
1445 The words bind and loose mean: whomever you exclude from your communion, will be excluded from communion with God; whomever you receive anew into your communion, God will welcome back into his. *Reconciliation with the Church is inseparable from reconciliation with God. *

Vickie
 
MarcoPolo said:
That is a decent analogy. 🙂 And I would only emphasize that the Church’s authorities are Christ working through them.
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That’s true. Thanks for pointing that out. And in the case of the healed man, it was God working through the priesthood of Israel at the time. For some reason that passage came to my mind 🙂

Peace…

MW
 
Of course I was only asking for the Catholic perspective… not so that I can accept it, but just to better understand it.

The point I am going to take away from this discussion is that not only can God forgive sins without a priest in the middle, but that God does forgive sins without there being confession to a priest. Even according to Catholics.
 
Sister_Amy said:
The point I am going to take away from this discussion is that not only can God forgive sins without a priest in the middle, but that God does forgive sins without there being confession to a priest. Even according to Catholics.
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Sometimes I get the feeling that some people come here to try to mold an answer to justify what he/she already intends to do. 😦 You really should have taken away a lot more than that.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Of course I was only asking for the Catholic perspective… not so that I can accept it, but just to better understand it.
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And of course I gave you a Catholic understanding (as best I could). I hoped it would help prove the point.
The point I am going to take away from this discussion is that not only can God forgive sins without a priest in the middle, but that God does forgive sins without there being confession to a priest. Even according to Catholics.
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Now that you understand it, are you ready to become a Catholic, since it’s the present day priesthood of God? 😉

Peace…

MW
 
MarcoPolo said:
Sometimes I get the feeling that some people come here to try to mold an answer to justify what he/she already intends to do. 😦 You really should have taken away a lot more than that.
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Sure there was more, but something that will never make sense to me is putting a man between me and God and going to a man instead of turning only to God–because of my beliefs.
Mystic Warrior:
Now that you understand it, are you ready to become a Catholic, since it’s the present day priesthood of God?
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Thanks for asking, but no. I have no intention of being a Catholic because I am otherwise able to turn directly to God in sincere repentance and expect the best from Him alone.

I would consider it a nuisance at the least, but more likely a problem to have to go to someone else other than God for forgiveness.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Of course I was only asking for the Catholic perspective… not so that I can accept it, but just to better understand it.

The point I am going to take away from this discussion is that not only can God forgive sins without a priest in the middle, but that God does forgive sins without there being confession to a priest. Even according to Catholics.
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With less than extroadiny circumstances like at the time of death if you get the chance to.

Please show me where it says that in the cathechism
 
I believe that God is Just, and Oft-Forgiving, that God loves to forgive us, and that He does not burden a soul with more than it can bear.
 
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