question on abortion

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mikew262:
Thank you for your “civil” response. I have no particular goal on this forum except to observe and participate in discussions. In this case, I am not trying to convince people to change their opinions on Abortion; it’s a passionate topic and people obviously have strong feelings about it. I simply expressed my opinion, which some folks were intolerant too.

Somebody mentioned me being a “liberal”. In the political sense, I am not. However, after giving it some thought, in the “catholic sense”, I perhaps lean somewhat to the left, but not overly so. Does this mean I’m a bad Catholic or Christian? No, not in my mind. As you could tell, I highly resented somebody judging me otherwise.
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I want you to hear something from me. I do not think that you are a bad Catholic or a bad Christian. We all have our opinions on things, and we should be able to express them. I do not think that it is our place to judge others.

I do not share your opinion on this subject, but I do not think that your opinion is worthless and should not be listened to and considered. I think that we should all remember that. Few decisions have ever been made on subjects of this magnatude without proper discussion and consideration.

I submit this, people learn from loving consideration. Throwing venom back and forth will convince nobody. If I have ever come off like that to you, that was my error.

Keep your opinions coming, and listen to the views of other as you are doing. That is the way we all learn and grow.

Brad
 
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sadie2723:
Keep your opinions coming, and listen to the views of other as you are doing. That is the way we all learn and grow.

Brad
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I will and I do.

You are roughly the same age as my older daughter (30ish), but you are wise beyond your years. Keep it up! 👍
 
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mikew262:
Thank you for your “civil” response. I have no particular goal on this forum except to observe and participate in discussions. In this case, I am not trying to convince people to change their opinions on Abortion; it’s a passionate topic and people obviously have strong feelings about it. I simply expressed my opinion, which some folks were intolerant too.

Somebody mentioned me being a “liberal”. In the political sense, I am not. However, after giving it some thought, in the “catholic sense”, I perhaps lean somewhat to the left, but not overly so. Does this mean I’m a bad Catholic or Christian? No, not in my mind. As you could tell, I highly resented somebody judging me otherwise.
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I once heard a priest say, there is not such thing as liberal or conservative, that is for politics. You are either Catholic, or you’re not.
 
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luvmykids:
I once heard a priest say, there is not such thing as liberal or conservative, that is for politics. You are either Catholic, or you’re not.
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  1. Priests are not always correct.
  2. Pls don’t judge me on my status as a Catholic. It’s certainly not up to you to make that decision. I believe I made my opinion known on that in an earlier post. I certainly wouldn’t attempt to judge you.
Thank you.
 
mikew262 said:
1. Priests are not always correct.
  1. Pls don’t judge me on my status as a Catholic. It’s certainly not up to you to make that decision. I believe I made my opinion known on that in an earlier post. I certainly wouldn’t attempt to judge you.
Thank you.
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I am certainly very sorry if you took that post as a judgement of you in any way. I was simply making a comment on your post.
 
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luvmykids:
I am certainly very sorry if you took that post as a judgement of you in any way. I was simply making a comment on your post.
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If I misread the intent of your post, then I’m sorry. Other posters have come across as judgmental, so I’m a little sensitive to that.
 
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luvmykids:
I once heard a priest say, there is not such thing as liberal or conservative, that is for politics. You are either Catholic, or you’re not.
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I would agree with your Priest. If one is Catholic one adheres to all the teachings of the Church. I think the terms Liberal, Consevarive, Progressive, et al have no place in a discussion about Catholics
 
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estesbob:
I would agree with your Priest. If one is Catholic one adheres to all the teachings of the Church. I think the terms Liberal, Consevarive, Progressive, et al have no place in a discussion about Catholics
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How do you think Vatican II came about? Maybe we had a few progressive thinkers?
 
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mikew262:
How do you think Vatican II came about? Maybe we had a few progressive thinkers?
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Since Vatcian II changed no teachings or doctrines of the Church I am afraid i dont get your point.
 
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mikew262:
Huh? Check out the “impact” section (lower right hand corner) of this webpage.

catholicnews.com/data/vat2/vat2.htm
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And the web site bears out what I said- it changed aboslutely no doctines or teachings of the Church. What is the difference between a “Progessive” Catholic and a "Conservative " Catholic???
 
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estesbob:
And the web site bears out what I said- it changed aboslutely no doctines or teachings of the Church. What is the difference between a “Progessive” Catholic and a "Conservative " Catholic???
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I suppose its a matter of semantics. Its obvious that some ways the church did business changed. This is why so many traditionlist (conservative) Catholics disagreed with it.

BTW,we are way off the thread topic here.
 
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trav6574:
An 11 year old girl was molested and was impregnated, an abortion was just performed this morning. What is the Churchs’ stance on this?
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The 11 year old girl has now been violently molested TWICE!

While this scenario is possible. In actuality, it only happens in a very minute percent of rape cases where there is a pregnancy. and by the way, pregnancy from rape happens only in a very few percent of the rape cases.

Killing a child is always wrong when that is the end goal.
 
Hi all, im puzzled , im going to come to this topic from a different angle , i was born to a married couple ,only im not the husbands child ,but the mothers fathers child, i cannot talk about this in any way ,nor can my friend who has the same problems i have ,we are both hated by our mothers , we were not adopted ,we were abused from an early age , i have yet to meet any one from any faith ,who has shown any love to either of us ,where was god for us ,and where were all these great Christians too , please do not say im sorry for what you have been through as sorry is a very meaningless word yours michaelmac
 
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michaelmac:
Hi all, im puzzled , im going to come to this topic from a different angle , i was born to a married couple ,only im not the husbands child ,but the mothers fathers child, i cannot talk about this in any way ,nor can my friend who has the same problems i have ,we are both hated by our mothers , we were not adopted ,we were abused from an early age , i have yet to meet any one from any faith ,who has shown any love to either of us ,where was god for us ,and where were all these great Christians too , please do not say im sorry for what you have been through as sorry is a very meaningless word yours michaelmac
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I do love you. And I will pray for you.
As someone who was molested, I can tell you from personal experience that God was there then and He is there for you now. I know that it is impossible to see that, but maybe my letting you know that others have been through similar situations will give you some hope.

And, most of all, know that this was NOT your fault and you did NOT deserve this. This was done by very screwed up people, because THEY are screwed up, not because you did anything wrong.
 
Mikew262, I respond point by point. But my closing section is actually my main reason for responding. You may want to read that first before reading any ‘defence’ I made for myself. I probably should have left the response to just the closing part honsetly. (it’s in the 2nd post)
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mikew262:
I wasn’t going to answer anymore posts because I’ve already stated my position whether anybody else agrees or not, but I couldn’t let this pass. How outrageous of you to make such a claim when you know so little about me. Who are you to judge me about my faith and relationship with God? Shame on you!
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Okay, I’ll start by apologizing for perhaps not using the charity I should have. Your right I have no right to judge…I wasn’t even trying to do that. We are called to recognize right from wrong though. That is all I was trying to point out. I wouldn’t even have gone as far as I did if your profile didn’t list you as Catholic. As one Catholic speaking to another I was basicly trying to show a basic truth of the Church. That we have to accent to Church teachings. Going against Church teachings does indeed separate us from God. I admit I couldn’t say this to someone not Catholic because they in no way would believe this argument!

Now, I will also say that you have to know something is wrong to be guilty of such sin. I don’t know that you are and I can’t judge that. That really is between you and your relationship with God.
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mikew262:
BTW, how do you know I’ve violated any church teaching? I’ve never been involved in any abortion!
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Saying you go against a Church teaching is going against a Church teaching. Not only am I allowed to not murder; I’m not allowed to think that murder is permissible for another person to dot. Yes, this probably isn’t as bad as actually being involved in a murder…but as Christ said, even to look upon a women lustfully is to commit adultery.

So, I was just going by what you said you believe.
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mikew262:
If you want to disagree with my position on a certain subject, go for it. However, don’t ever question my belief in God or whether I’m a good catholic or not.
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By posting what you did you are pretty much asking for people to question your beliefs. It’s obvious you question the beliefs I hold or other ‘pro-lifers’ hold about the sanctity of life…I kinda thought that questioning such beliefs was the point here. The think that makes it ‘moral theology’ is just that, it is a theologically moral dilemma…something that is at the very root of beliefs. From what I can tell any Catholic that thinks that we are not allowed to believe abortion is ever right is questioning your beliefs…that is a lot more than me. I believe the Catholic faith and all it teaches. I accent to all the Catholic beliefs you hold to also. I question the validity of the position you take on abortion, I question your belief that we can disagree on what the Church teaches…but not any other beliefs you have. I don’t know what those other beliefs are!

I wouldn’t use the term good Catholic or not honestly. What is a good Catholic? We all have faults I’m sure I do!

I submit all I say to the Church. If anything I say differers with what She teaches I retract it.

So no, I won’t question if your a ‘good Catholic or not’. I will in my way of presenting things point out that ‘X’ belief cannot be held by a Catholic. If I can be shown as wrong that is fine and I retract any false statement I’ve said if anything be false.

If someone really believes it is alright to believe ‘x’ thing against the Church then I’d say they must follow their conscience. We must always try our best to form our conscience correctly, though doing wrong is still wrong even if a malformed conscience thinks it’s not. But we still have to follow, to the best of our ability, our own conscience that we try to form correctly.

Please see next post for end (wow I can’t believe this is taking two postings)
 
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mikew262:
BTW, questioning somebody’s belief I think goes against the rules of this board. I hope a moderator is monitoring this.
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I don’t know about questioning someone’s beliefs as being against the rules of the board. Questions about people beliefs seem to be what this board is about! I’m sure harassing someone is however against the board, I fear I may be getting close to that, so I’ll stop! I don’t want to get you angry and irate and I know I’ve done that…shame on me. I honestly was trying to get you to try to refute my position to yourself to get you to question it and make sure that it is right with God. I probably could have done that with less postings.
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mikew262:
I commend your devoutness to the Catholic faith, and you may well be a better Catholic than I, but you’ve still got some work to do.
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Thank you for the complement (on commending my devoutness). I wouldn’t ever describe myself that way, honestly. It’s something I still need a lot of work at! I honestly would NOT say I’m a better Catholic than you. I assure you I agree with you when you say I have some work to do! I’ve already said I’m praying for you. (by the way I do NOT ask God to make you believe what I do…then it would be my will and I could be wrong about what I think should happen! I ask for his will to be done and for you to grow closer and closer to Him). I sincerely mean it when I say I’d appreciate the prayers of you or anyone else to help me be closer to God and the Truth.

So finally in closing. Accept my public apology. I still believe what I do. You still believe what you do. But I call it a truce and I am more than willing to concede that I was at fault many times. For example, I responded mostly with anger at something that I take very very very personally. I lost my first little baby before he was born and so it hits very close to home with me. So much so that I’m sure I responded wrongly.

So, if I respond any more at all to this than I will try to not post at all if I feel my temper rising. Maybe a write the post in a word document and read it latter after I cool down! The post that really upset you here is one that I actually thought about trying to go back and delete or edit but couldn’t find a way how!
 
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estesbob:
Questioning somones beliefs and calling someone a liar are ideed a violation of Forum rules. I see the violator is new-if he sticks around long enough he will learn how to question someones beliefs and call someone a liar without appearing to question their beliefs and call them a liar ! It happens to me a lothttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
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If I stick around? Honestly after posting that I was kinda afraid I might be kicked! I shouldn’t do that. Shame on me. :crying:
 
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mikew262:
If I misread the intent of your post, then I’m sorry. Other posters have come across as judgmental, so I’m a little sensitive to that.
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Guilty as charged…sorry.
 
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