Question on Islam -- round 4

[jakasaki]

I would like to answer this question, though Steve’s (name removed by moderator)ut is welcomed. There is no command in the NT that the ***form ***of prayer is of greater importance than the ***intent ***and the object. The only reason why Muslims even ***speak ***of Jesus at all is to recast him into the image of the Poet Muhammad.

Christians are to pray sincerely for the ‘milk of the word’ *, and in spiritual supplication, crying ‘O Lord my God’ *. Do our bodies follow the direction of our prayers? No doubt about it. Prayer in faith will most likely lead to a few things, [1] tears, [2] prostration and humility, and [3] blessing and comfort, among other things.

This notion that you have to sit on a carpet and follow some pathetic routine in a particular lagnuage is just foolish.

I could go on, but would like Steve to add his remarks.**

Happy Saturday everyone! I see round 4 has been busy since I got off last night…

Excellent contributions!

So I will add to the Lothairs post…

Without quoting the Bible, Christ said do not pray like these hypocrites and make a spectacle of your self.,… instead pray in silence and quite place.

 

[SteveLohr]

I would like to answer this question, though Steve’s (name removed by moderator)ut is welcomed. There is no command in the NT that the ***form ***of prayer is of greater importance than the ***intent ***and the object. The only reason why Muslims even ***speak ***of Jesus at all is to recast him into the image of the Poet Muhammad.

Christians are to pray sincerely for the ‘milk of the word’ *, and in spiritual supplication, crying ‘O Lord my God’ *. Do our bodies follow the direction of our prayers? No doubt about it. Prayer in faith will most likely lead to a few things, [1] tears, [2] prostration and humility, and [3] blessing and comfort, among other things.

This notion that you have to sit on a carpet and follow some pathetic routine in a particular lagnuage is just foolish.

I could go on, but would like Steve to add his remarks.**

In a way, this is an interesting question, because it highlights some of the philosophical differences between Islam and Christianity. Give me a couple of hours, and I’ll try to put together a coherent answer, with appropriate references.

 

[planten]

Actually, her responce is no more than a general denial, and she provides no supporting evidence to refute Spencer. More of the same from the Muhamamdans. If you can’t refute the critic, just ignore him. If he continues, jail him if possible. Assassination later becomes condoned as a ‘last resort’. Bottom line: of critics won’t be silent, imprison or kill them.

I highly commended the post of sis Amy.You are posting all lies. Remember that we are not Muhammadans, like you are called christians after the name (or title) of a man called christ. You have many mistakes and you want to neutralise them by involving others into similar falsehood. We are Muslims, not Muhammadans.

You can be called christian after a man. That will be a narrow mindedness.

Then you are assuming things about punishments. Nobody is going to punish you as long as you are not abusive.

No, you couldn’t. You would thrash about, cry loudly, then run away and call for jihad.

Why will I run away? Who is Spenser? How old is he? Where is he? Did you post even one of his arguments here? I believe that you have only heard his name and you know nothing about him. I would refer you to a great preacher (debator) Ahmed Deedat who made the evangelists run away at top speed. (Search out the name in web)

There was a famous evangelist of America (Billy Graham). He was great. When he visited East Afrika, one Ahmadi Muslim preacher threw a challenge to billy Graham. That was a fair challenge of healing terminally ill patients selected at random by prayers to God/ Allah. Billy Graham backed out and did not accept the challenge.

Your so called preachers are doing it for fame and money. Nothing else. It is a means of their living.

Historically, Christianity has the ***only ***legs to stand on

.

Spiritually christianity has no legs to stand on. Their Jesus is gone for good, never to be seen for 2000 years. Nothing heard fromhim since he went away suddenly and very quietly. He will never return to this world.again because he had a very bad experiance the last time that he was here. Now (If he ever came) he will not see any of his followers. But he will see the followers of his arch enemy Saul roaming the world.

Wine and Islamic history are very interesting. Take a look at this video. Also, we are addressing bad things in our societies. Maybe you should do the same in your own, rather than keep up some pretense of holiness when we know better. Your prophet was a sex addict, so please, cut the charade.

While you have made a weak man into God, You are abusing the great powerful beloved man of God i.e. Muhammad… The wine and women you have spread in the world is taking its toll from all nations including some muslims too. The sin of all those people is going into your basket because your name sake christians are the traders of wine houses and gambling dens

Where is your Spencer? Bring something fromhim and do not give any website or blog here. Bring the argument of your religious leader.

.

 

[Jay53]

I highly commended the post of sis Amy.You are posting all lies. Remember that we are not Muhammadans, like you are called christians after the name (or title) of a man called christ. You have many mistakes and you want to neutralise them by involving others into similar falsehood. We are Muslims, not Muhammadans.

You can be called christian after a man. That will be a narrow mindedness.

Then you are assuming things about punishments. Nobody is going to punish you as long as you are not abusive.

Why will I run away? Who is Spenser? How old is he? Where is he? Did you post even one of his arguments here? I believe that you have only heard his name and you know nothing about him. I would refer you to a great preacher (debator) Ahmed Deedat who made the evangelists run away at top speed. (Search out the name in web)

There was a famous evangelist of America (Billy Graham). He was great. When he visited East Afrika, one Ahmadi Muslim preacher threw a challenge to billy Graham. That was a fair challenge of healing terminally ill patients selected at random by prayers to God/ Allah. Billy Graham backed out and did not accept the challenge.

Your so called preachers are doing it for fame and money. Nothing else. It is a means of their living.

.

Spiritually christianity has no legs to stand on. Their Jesus is gone for good, never to be seen for 2000 years. Nothing heard fromhim since he went away suddenly and very quietly. He will never return to this world.again because he had a very bad experiance the last time that he was here. Now (If he ever came) he will not see any of his followers. But he will see the followers of his arch enemy Saul roaming the world.

While you have made a weak man into God, You are abusing the great powerful beloved man of God i.e. Muhammad… The wine and women you have spread in the world is taking its toll from all nations including some muslims too. The sin of all those people is going into your basket because your name sake christians are the traders of wine houses and gambling dens

Where is your Spencer? Bring something fromhim and do not give any website or blog here. Bring the argument of your religious leader.

.

:hypno:

 

[R_not]

Darl,
Ive been out of the loop for a few days, who is Mr Spencer?
I noticed since he has been brought up, the muslims have claimed he is using ‘wrong’ sources etc? What are these so called ‘wrong’ sources?

Mr. Spencer is a man who is in behind jihadwatch.org. He is also an author of many books such as:

• (PIG) Politically Incorrect guide to Islam
• The Truth About muhammed
• Stealth Jihad: How Radical Islam is Subverting America without Guns or Bombs

He carries on with talks about islam and is very active trying to tell us what it is all about. He supports Geert Wilders, and can usually be seen when others such as himself speak out.

He is not a boogy man like the muslims make out. He has a section in jihadwatch.org of ‘blogging the quran’ that is notable. His articles have all the original links when they talk about events and people who are taking an active role in getting the word out.

As for a more personal biography of him - here is one from wikipedia.

 

[morning_star777]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

**If u worship Jesus **( pbuh) as God , then I think , ans is yes.

Yes I do.I worship Jesus from my heart and from my soul.And I will do it all of my life.Jesus is my God forever and he(Jesus) knows it…And thank you(MW) for your honest answer(that I am a kafir)..

PS.** I hope planten will see this answer,because he does not think that I am a Kafir.**

 

[jakasaki]

:hypno:

Happy Saturday Jay… can you please share some of your popcorn with me??

 

[R_not]

Spiritually christianity has no legs to stand on. Their Jesus is gone for good, never to be seen for 2000 years. Nothing heard fromhim since he went away suddenly and very quietly. He will never return to this world.again because he had a very bad experiance the last time that he was here. Now (If he ever came) he will not see any of his followers. But he will see the followers of his arch enemy Saul roaming the world.

While you have made a weak man into God, You are abusing the great powerful beloved man of God i.e. Muhammad… The wine and women you have spread in the world is taking its toll from all nations including some muslims too. The sin of all those people is going into your basket because your name sake christians are the traders of wine houses and gambling dens

Where is your Spencer? Bring something fromhim and do not give any website or blog here. Bring the argument of your religious leader.

Ironic, even the muslims think Jesus will be back for the 2nd time around, but they think that he will kill us and even kill the pigs. go figure, it is a neverending circus with them. If Jesus didn’t do it the first time around I don’t know why they think it will happen the 2nd time around - all that killing they are hoping for.

But, if Jesus were weak - how could He cure the blind, the sick, drive devils out of people, feed the hungry, resurrect (and we went over this with planten that not only did the apostles agree on this, but secular historians wrote about it - but planten doesn’t comprehend nor doesn’t want to).

But, I suppose it was because Jesus didn’t own slaves, have sex with them, kill thousands, torture people to hand over their possessions, assasinate old men and women suckling their babies, and told people to deceive others in order to lull them into thinking there would be no war and attack anyway, attack poorly armed caravans just for the loot and slaves, etc - that is why planten thinks He was weak.

 

[jakasaki]

I highly commended the post of sis Amy.You are posting all lies. Remember that we are not Muhammadans, like you are called christians after the name (or title) of a man called christ. You have many mistakes and you want to neutralise them by involving others into similar falsehood. We are Muslims, not Muhammadans.

You can be called christian after a man. That will be a narrow mindedness.

Then you are assuming things about punishments. Nobody is going to punish you as long as you are not abusive.

Why will I run away? Who is Spenser? How old is he? Where is he? Did you post even one of his arguments here? I believe that you have only heard his name and you know nothing about him. I would refer you to a great preacher (debator) Ahmed Deedat who made the evangelists run away at top speed. (Search out the name in web)

There was a famous evangelist of America (Billy Graham). He was great. When he visited East Afrika, one Ahmadi Muslim preacher threw a challenge to billy Graham. That was a fair challenge of healing terminally ill patients selected at random by prayers to God/ Allah. Billy Graham backed out and did not accept the challenge.

Your so called preachers are doing it for fame and money. Nothing else. It is a means of their living.

.

Spiritually christianity has no legs to stand on. Their Jesus is gone for good, never to be seen for 2000 years. Nothing heard fromhim since he went away suddenly and very quietly. He will never return to this world.again because he had a very bad experiance the last time that he was here. Now (If he ever came) he will not see any of his followers. But he will see the followers of his arch enemy Saul roaming the world.

While you have made a weak man into God, You are abusing the great powerful beloved man of God i.e. Muhammad… The wine and women you have spread in the world is taking its toll from all nations including some muslims too. The sin of all those people is going into your basket because your name sake christians are the traders of wine houses and gambling dens

Where is your Spencer? Bring something fromhim and do not give any website or blog here. Bring the argument of your religious leader.

.

As the great Jack Nicolson said… “You can’t handle the truth…!!!”

 

[R_not]

Yes I do.I worship Jesus from my heart and from my soul.And I will do it all of my life.Jesus is my God forever and he(Jesus) knows it…And thank you(MW) for your honest answer(that I am a kafir)..

PS.** I hope planten will see this answer,because he does not think that I am a Kafir.**

Well, I am one too - planten told me so several months back and last year too. (twice!)

I look at being a kafir as a lofty position to hold. And I work at keeping that title all the time.

To a muslim it is a dirty word and if the moderators knew islam they would ban these people, but they do not know islam. So, I will carry this title with pride.

morningstar! It is good to read your posts again. I missed you.

 

[Aydan]

this post is so ridiculous it’s funny. Yeah I’m sure Pope John Paul did it for money yeah that’s it give me a break. Billy Graham is that all you can come up with even if we provide you with evidence you don’t believe it so what’s the point?

I highly commended the post of sis Amy.You are posting all lies. Remember that we are not Muhammadans, like you are called christians after the name (or title) of a man called christ. You have many mistakes and you want to neutralise them by involving others into similar falsehood. We are Muslims, not Muhammadans.

You can be called christian after a man. That will be a narrow mindedness.

Then you are assuming things about punishments. Nobody is going to punish you as long as you are not abusive.

Why will I run away? Who is Spenser? How old is he? Where is he? Did you post even one of his arguments here? I believe that you have only heard his name and you know nothing about him. I would refer you to a great preacher (debator) Ahmed Deedat who made the evangelists run away at top speed. (Search out the name in web)

There was a famous evangelist of America (Billy Graham). He was great. When he visited East Afrika, one Ahmadi Muslim preacher threw a challenge to billy Graham. That was a fair challenge of healing terminally ill patients selected at random by prayers to God/ Allah. Billy Graham backed out and did not accept the challenge.

Your so called preachers are doing it for fame and money. Nothing else. It is a means of their living.

.

Spiritually christianity has no legs to stand on. Their Jesus is gone for good, never to be seen for 2000 years. Nothing heard fromhim since he went away suddenly and very quietly. He will never return to this world.again because he had a very bad experiance the last time that he was here. Now (If he ever came) he will not see any of his followers. But he will see the followers of his arch enemy Saul roaming the world.

While you have made a weak man into God, You are abusing the great powerful beloved man of God i.e. Muhammad… The wine and women you have spread in the world is taking its toll from all nations including some muslims too. The sin of all those people is going into your basket because your name sake christians are the traders of wine houses and gambling dens

Where is your Spencer? Bring something fromhim and do not give any website or blog here. Bring the argument of your religious leader.

.

 

[Jay53]

Happy Saturday Jay… can you please share some of your popcorn with me??

Sure! I’m learning interesting stuff today. According to planten, Jesus is weak and has never been seen or heard from again. Apparently all of the saints who have seen Jesus are wrong, Catholics are all wrong because we receive Jesus in the Eucharist (BTW, my middle son makes his First Communion next Saturday :extrahappy: ), and all of the Eucharistic Miracles that have happened are …?.. (I have no word. ) and then, according to MW, all Christians are kafirs because we believe/know Jesus is God. (Although I thought there was also the criteria that you had to be against Islam too in order to be a kafir - but I guess that qualifies most of us anyway. ) Can we start a club?

 

[planten]

Yes I do.I worship Jesus from my heart and from my soul.And I will do it all of my life.Jesus is my God forever and he(Jesus) knows it…And thank you(MW) for your honest answer(that I am a kafir)..

PS.** I hope planten will see this answer,because he does not think that I am a Kafir.**

Morning_Star, thanks for seeking my opinion. I hope you would not mind if it is not in your favor. As far as i know, if any one does not abuse the prophet Muhammad with adverse remarks and does not say Islam is a false religion, he/she is not a kafir. Even if he/she does not believe in Muhammad and does not convert to Islam, he/she is not kafir. So you are not a kaafir.

But since you worship a man as God and consider a man as god then you are a pagan and you can be called a polytheist (Mushrik). As long as you are peaceful, you are not Kafir. May be I am wrong. But that is what I believe.

 

[morning_star777]

Well, I am one too - planten told me so several months back and last year too. (twice!)

I look at being a kafir as a lofty position to hold. And I work at keeping that title all the time.

To a muslim it is a dirty word and if the moderators knew islam they would ban these people, but they do not know islam. So, I will carry this title with pride.

Yes,Kafir is the most dirty word in Islamic society.And they call all non Muslim, Kafir.But I am also one of the happiest man in the world because I left islam in the year of 2002 and then after 6 years I decided to be a Christian.Thanks Jesus that finally he showed me the way.So I will also carry this title(kafir) with pride.

morningstar! It is good to read your posts again. I missed you.

Thanks my friend for missing me.May Our Holy lord Jesus Christ,son Of God always be with you and may he protect you always.

 

[R_not]

this post is so ridiculous it’s funny. Yeah I’m sure Pope John Paul did it for money yeah that’s it give me a break. Billy Graham is that all you can come up with even if we provide you with evidence you don’t believe it so what’s the point?

An interesting thing to look into would be to find out the wealth behind their clerics. many supported by billionaire saudi wahabbis. In Iran those clerics (mullahs) are the power and with power comes wealth.

I wasn’t even going to address this issue that planten had with money - but I think that muslims should watch what they say if they don’t want to be scrutinized more closely in this area too.

What I find is that when people make (baseless) accusations that means that one should stop, and then look at them to see what is happening in their own selves, or areas.

It is the same with name calling - usually it is just a reflection on the person doing the name calling. It is what is in their own heads.

 

[cathopologist]

But since you worship a man as God and consider a man as god then you are a pagan and you can be called a polytheist (Mushrik). As long as you are peaceful, you are not Kafir. May be I am wrong. But that is what I believe.

Anyone who recites a creed with “prophet’s” name attached to it is also considered a pagan. Of course, Muslims will always deny this charge - its like the Pot calling the Kettle black, but hey, we are not the ones who are told to face a black rock everyday to pray you know.

 

[R_not]

Yes,Kafir is the most dirty word in Islamic society.And they call all non Muslim, Kafir.But I am also one of the happiest man in the world because I left islam in the year of 2002 and then after 6 years I decided to be a Christian.Thanks Jesus that finally he showed me the way.So I will also carry this title(kafir) with pride.

Thanks my friend for missing me.May Our Holy lord Jesus Christ,son Of God always be with you and may he protect you always.

Yes, it does feel good and it changes one. I wasn’t such a good Christian until I started looking into ‘Why do they hate us?’, ‘why were their excuses not sounding real?’, etc after 9/11. In order to delve into that I found that I was turning more and more to the Church and even more so to Jesus for comfort.

Being dragged continually to have to reference the koran and other islamic texts is a ‘downer’. That is an expression that we had as teenagers.

I think of you often, morningstar, keep safe.

 

[dzheremi]

Oh boy! This kaafir business again! First they say you need to be against Islam (which I suppose you are by definition if you are a Christian, Jew, Hindu, etc. insofar as you reject the religion of Muhammad), then they say no, no, you need to physically fight against Islam because this was the context in which the verses about slaying unbelievers came about (this is the interpretation of some Muslims who want to say that Islam is not violent towards unbelievers simply because they are unbelievers). Well, since you can be against Islam without going around killing Muslims, it doesn’t seem like those who are considered kaafirs by the first group ought to be considered kaafirs by the second. What gives? Who is right?

This is not an unimportant question, either. In Christianity, by rejecting Christ and putting your faith in something else (Islam, new age, Mormonism, etc), you risk your eternal soul. In Islam, it seems, by rejecting the message and prophethood of Muhammad, you risk having your temporal life taken from you by people who claim the right to enact God’s righteous vengeance upon you. It’s kind of a big difference, don’t you think?

 

[planten]

**
It is true that most muslims do not understand the word kafir. Even the scholars of the past misunderstood it and translated it loosely as “Disbeliever”. That was being a simplton. Kaafir is an utter open enemy of Islam.

But most Muslims believe that every one who has not recited the kalimah is a Kaafir. Some of them also believe that all kaafir are to be killed. So the initial mistake becomes much greater in magnitude. That is ignorance. Kafir is liable to be killed. But he has to be an armed enemy before he can be called a kafir. Any one who does not believe in Muhammad is not kaafir. He may be a non-believer, a christian or a Jew. But not a kafir. Kafir is the one who fights against Islam.

Kafir is an enemy outside the pale of Islam.

So Muslism need to understand things in their proper perspective. If some one has not been given the message of Islam, how can he take Shahadah? How can he recite the Kalimah? How can he be a Kaafir? He is at the most an ignorant or uninformed poor soul.**

 

[morning_star777]

Morning_Star, thanks for seeking my opinion. I hope you would not mind if it is not in your favor.

You are welcome planten. And I will never mind if anything is not in my favor(about faith)

As far as i know, if any one does not abuse the prophet Muhammad with adverse remarks and does not say Islam is a false religion, he/she is not a kafir. Even if he/she does not believe in Muhammad and does not convert to Islam, he/she is not kafir. So you are not a kaafir.

You know,although I do not like Muhammed and think him as the biggest false prophet,and Islam is also false religion,but You will agree that I never openly abused your prophet By saying harsh words. So Now you may decide again that I am a Kafir or not… Anyway I believe that,all Christians think Muhammed as false prophet because if he(Muhammed) is true prophet then Jesus Is not God.And if Jesus is God then Muhammed is not a true prophet. And who reject Jesus as God he/she is not a Christian correct? So indeed all Christian think Muhammed a false prophet.So now you can think again about the word Kafir.

But since you worship a man as God and consider a man as god then you are a pagan and you can be called a polytheist (Mushrik). As long as you are peaceful, you are not Kafir. May be I am wrong. But that is what I believe.

Sorry Planten,I do not worship a man,but I worship God,holy trinity.father son and holy spirit.And this trinity concept was well explained to you and other Muslims by our Christian friends.So if you do not understand trinity then it is not my mistake.You do not understand trinity so you think that Trinitarians are pagan.But Actually Trinitarians are not pagan but they(we) worship the true God.And I worship Jesus because he is God,and I believe him as my god from my heart,as I explained in my previous post.Anyway I know our view point is not same.But Muslim never can prove that we are pagan.We believe in one God.that’s it.Bless you.