Question on Islam -- round 4

[dzheremi]

Waaaaaaah, Christians drink wine! Waaaah! Please. Enough of that already. You know what is not allowed to you according to your own religion, so it’s nobody’s fault but your own if you can’t live up to its precepts. No one in any Western country forces any Muslim to drink alcohol or gamble or any of that, certainly not any Christian! I’ve asked my local Muslim friends why some of their co-religionists go to bars and co-ed nightclubs here, and they say that those people are weak in their religious convictions. They don’t blame any other religious group for it. You should try that attitude for a while. It is much better than your state of fussy denial.

If Muslims couldn’t get Western alcohol they would just make it themselves, as already happens even in Muslims states that have legal breweries and bars (generally to serve expats only).

“In September 2004, as many as 42 people died after drinking poisonous home-made alcohol in the eastern city of Multan in Punjab province in Pakistan. Officially two breweries operate in the country to serve non-Muslim communities, who form only 3 percent of the 150-million-member Muslim state. But potent home-made liquors were manufactured illegally in several parts of the country in often unhygienic conditions and using dangerous ingredients.”

“In May 11, 1999 at least 115 people have died from drinking illegal homemade liquor in Bangladesh in the country’s worst case of alcohol poisoning. At least 30 people were fighting for their lives at a hospital in the capital, Dhaka, and in the town of Narsinghdi, northeast of Dhaka. Police arrested six people for selling poisonous home-brewed liquor and closed several shops. The government also ordered an investigation into the incidents. Doctors said many victims did not report to hospitals to avoid problems with police because alcohol is banned in Muslim Bangladesh.”

(more of the same here)

 

[Aydan]

funny you mention alcohol because the national drink of Turkey is Raki and that contains approximately 40% alcohol. Just curious who are you responding to?

Waaaaaaah, Christians drink wine! Waaaah! Please. Enough of that already. You know what is not allowed to you according to your own religion, so it’s nobody’s fault but your own if you can’t live up to its precepts. No one in any Western country forces any Muslim to drink alcohol or gamble or any of that, certainly not any Christian! I’ve asked my local Muslim friends why some of their co-religionists go to bars and co-ed nightclubs here, and they say that those people are weak in their religious convictions. They don’t blame any other religious group for it. You should try that attitude for a while. It is much better than your state of fussy denial.

If Muslims couldn’t get Western alcohol they would just make it themselves, as already happens even in Muslims states that have legal breweries and bars (generally to serve expats only).

“In September 2004, as many as 42 people died after drinking poisonous home-made alcohol in the eastern city of Multan in Punjab province in Pakistan. Officially two breweries operate in the country to serve non-Muslim communities, who form only 3 percent of the 150-million-member Muslim state. But potent home-made liquors were manufactured illegally in several parts of the country in often unhygienic conditions and using dangerous ingredients.”

“In May 11, 1999 at least 115 people have died from drinking illegal homemade liquor in Bangladesh in the country’s worst case of alcohol poisoning. At least 30 people were fighting for their lives at a hospital in the capital, Dhaka, and in the town of Narsinghdi, northeast of Dhaka. Police arrested six people for selling poisonous home-brewed liquor and closed several shops. The government also ordered an investigation into the incidents. Doctors said many victims did not report to hospitals to avoid problems with police because alcohol is banned in Muslim Bangladesh.”

(more of the same here)

 

[Sister_Amy]

People did notice. Most of the Quran is nothing more than ***banter ***between Muhammad and his kinsmen, who saw that the Quran was no more than retold fables from old [Q 83:10, 29]. People used to *laugh *at your prophet, not marvel at the wonder of his poetry.

Ah, the Meccans were quite unsure what to do about Muhammad. They did ridicule him, it’s true. They labeled him a liar, a madman, a poet, a magician, a soothsayer, and even called him possessed. Eventually they realized how silly that all was, that they couldn’t even decide how to ridicule him! So I laugh back at you. The Qur’an hardly qualifies as “banter,” as it doesn’t include any words from Muhammad’s companions, and doesn’t include the words of Muhammad either. But you’ll say it is Muhammad’s words, to which I will point out that it differs vastly in style from all recorded sayings of Muhammad. If he were a man to create such eloquence as in the Qur’an, why abstain from it on a regular basis? If he could produce such language as to convince people utterly that he was reciting the Word of God, why not just call himself divine, rather than a slave of the divine?

You are becoming hysterical. You worship a god, not God Almighty. I only mock false prophets, like yours and that of the Mormons.

I’m hysterical? Not hardly. You’re the one throwing insults around, which I can only assume is because you’re ill-equipped to discuss ideas.

I worship the Creator, you worship something entirely ‘other’ than God.

I worship the Creator. If I say, “Oh God, who created me,” on whom am I calling?

 

[Sister_Amy]

I’ve heard of Muhammad, but who were Hud, Salih, and Shu’ayb? Where can we read accounts of them?

The Prophet Hud was sent to the people of 'Ad. The Prophet Salih was sent to the people of Thamud. And the Prophet Shu’ayb was sent to the people of Madyan. You may read accounts of all of them in the Qur’an, or if you prefer narrative accounts I might suggest “Stories of the Prophets” by Ibn Kathir which is available in English, or you can listen to some wonderful lectures on the subject by Imam Anwar al-Awlaki. I don’t know about 'Ad or Thamud, but the people of Madyan appear in the Bible, called Midian. I’m told it’s equivalent.

 

[dzheremi]

funny you mention alcohol because the national drink of Turkey is Raki and that contains approximately 40% alcohol. Just curious who are you responding to?

Hahaha. Sorry, Aydan. I was replying to Planten’s objections about Christians drinking alcohol.

 

[Sister_Amy]

One of the points that Mr. Spencer makes on almost a weekly basis is that he is willing to be proven wrong on his points. He has offered to debate any of his critics to show him how his reporting is incorrect, and makes his email address freely available to spark such debate. As far as I know, his critics rarely, if ever, take him up on this offer. In my 15+ years of studying Islam, I can’t say I’ve ever found his reports or interpretations to be clearly in error. What claims of his particularly bother you?

Can’t say, as I have far better things to do than read his websites and books.

Although I will tell you that I did come across one book of his in my parents’ house while they were out of town. I took one chapter of the book and identified lies on almost every single page of a chapter I selected to read. I left post-it notes on almost every page explaining the inaccuracies, but never saw the book again. That was a couple years ago, though, and I don’t remember even which chapter it was, though I think it was about women.

I do recall however, that at least one hadith was seemingly deliberately mistranslated. It enraged me to read that. The author took the hadith to mean exactly the opposite of what it said. The hadith is one where some women had complained to the Prophet about their husbands beating them, and the Prophet replied that “they” are not the best among “you.” And Spencer’s book claimed that it was the women who were “not the best” because they were complaining. He actually spelled that out. When in fact, the hadith is saying the opposite, that the men were “not the best” because they were beating their wives.

That’s the sort of problem I have with Robert Spencer. He takes an actual hadith, and either mistranslates it, or gives the wrong meaning from it, misinterpreting it. Either tactic is deceitful.

 

[Sister_Amy]

if Jesus wanted us to pray like Muslims he would’ve taught us but instead he taught his disciples how to pray by teaching them the Lord’s prayer. More importantly Jesus taught his disciples to remember him by eating his flesh and drinking his blood through the Eucharist. That was far more important to Jesus than having people on their face when praying.

You mean Jesus taught his disciples to engage in cannibalism?

You see, I don’t have a problem with the “Lord’s prayer.” It’s pretty Islamic actually. On the otherhand, Jesus did fall on his face to pray to God. If it’s not important, why did he do that?

People always say that actions speak louder than words. Did Jesus not teach by actions?

 

[Sister_Amy]

Then what are you saying? God’s name is clearly “I AM” in the book of Exodus. Then you said that God said His name is “Allah”. So what conclusion am I supposed to draw from this?

That God has more than one name, obviously.

Then I would conclude that Exodus has not been corrupted. So I am still not following your explanation here about God’s name. You are saying that Exodus is not corrupted, Moses is not a liar and God did not change His name. So how do we get from “I AM” to “ALLAH”? Does Allah also mean I am in Arabic?

It would be a courtesy, I think, to let me say what I am saying, rather than ask me if I’m saying something because I am not saying something else.

What I said is that I cannot prove to you that Exodus is corrupted. I did not say that it actually isn’t corrupted. Perhaps the difference is subtle, but I am emphasizing it now. I think Exodus might have been corrupted, but I simply can’t prove it. Therefore I can’t really continue the discussion on the matter, can I?

About Moses being a liar, I did say that Moses is not a liar.

About God changing His name, what I am saying is that God has more than one name. To Him belong the most beautiful Namessssss. Plural.

Okay?

 

[Sister_Amy]

***Several ***Islamic states exist, all of which kill apostates in order to keep conversions out of Islam to a small number. Those who ***do ***leave are always in danger. You prophet divided the human race into two parts, and ordered that his ‘deen’ wage war against all other religions until the Day of Judgment.

There are over 50 “Muslim countires,” but not a single Islamic state. Do you know the difference?

Then quit talking as if it were.

I talk about the things I know about, and don’t talk about things I don’t know about. Can you say the same? When my limit has been reached, I will say so, as I did.

 

[Aydan]

You mean Jesus taught his disciples to engage in cannibalism?

You see, I don’t have a problem with the “Lord’s prayer.” It’s pretty Islamic actually. On the otherhand, Jesus did fall on his face to pray to God. If it’s not important, why did he do that?

People always say that actions speak louder than words. Did Jesus not teach by actions?

he certainly did he sacrificed his life and he certainly came for much more then the Jews that speaks volumes to me

 

[Sister_Amy]

I have looked at your blog. Lots of devotions to your god, but nothing scholarly on Semetic language that I could find, or of any real use to study of language. But, apparently, I am the one who needs schooling on language. Right, right. You tell it. All you have left to throw is that somehow, someway, I have it wrong.

Lots of devotion to the Lord of the heavens and the earth, but no, nothing scholarly in the way of Semitic languages. Sorry to disappoint you, if you went there looking for it. I offered my blog on the subject of jihad, about which I had written a post based on an interview with my shaykh. That’s why I referred posters there, and not for scholarly discussion on linguistics. Sorry for the confusion, if you thought otherwise.

Millions of people make a pilgriamge to a pagan shrine, recast by a suicidal poet into the religion of Abraham. Sorry, but Abraham never left Canaan once he arrived, except for his sojurn into Egypt, and in fact was buried in the Cave of Machpelah. Yet, we are to believe that he traveled to the Hijaz, built the Kaaba, then went back home to grow old and die? What 7th century fiction so much like Mormonism. Portraying Abraham as a Muslim who established the pagan rituals incorporated into Islam gives them credibility only to the ignorant.

I wonder if it is only through demonizing other people’s faiths that you can adhere to your own? The Arabs in Mecca knew about the Ka’ba, they knew about the pilgrimage, and they knew about Abraham. What you call a “fiction” they called stories of the ancients. Why? It wasn’t something Muhammad made up, that’s why.

I understand the story just fine. Sorry that you don’t and need to believe that it is I who is ignorant. But, I guess that is part of the ‘comfort’ of Islam, isn’t it?

I’m still waiting for you to explain that to me.

You fall on your face in prayer to a rock in Arabia. I could call a cup of coffee the ‘creator of the heavens and the earth’, but unless its the God of the Bible, I would be out of luck. Like you are.
For a girl who claims to spend so much time on her face in prayer, you sure do have a lot of time to type out messenges to me!

This is an odd remark, first suggesting that a cup of coffee could create the heavens and the earth, and secondly saying about me something I never said. Let’s deal with the first… Who is God? Who worships Him? How does anyone know he is worshiping Him?

And as to the second, I never claimed to spend “so much time” in prayer that I couldn’t be bothered to use a computer. Do you think that if a person prays to God he wouldn’t have time to do anything else? My face strikes the floor no less than 34 times a day, like any Muslim, while I glorify my Lord, Most High. Subhaana Rabbiyal A’la.

Out of curiosity, if you were to say the same thing, how do you suppose it would be different?

 

[Aydan]

Of course Jesus led through actions he died on the Cross and he didn’t just come for the Jews. The Bible clearly says that Jesus said to his disciples during the last supper he took bread gave it to his disciples said take this all of you and eat it this is my body which will be given up for you then he took the cup filled with wine and said to his disciples take this all of you and drink from it this is my blood which will be shed for you. Do these things in memory of me. Now if you want to disrespect Jesus by saying that the disciples in engaged in cannibalism you go right ahead because I’m not the one that will have to answer to God for that on Judgment Day you are. As for the prayer component of this I think other Catholics have adequately addressed your question here as they have said there’s no mandate for us to pray like Muslims so we are not required to do it. Instead Jesus gave us to simple mandates not to pray just for show and to pray in a quiet place to our father.I’m sorry the Lord’s prayer is not Islamic.

You mean Jesus taught his disciples to engage in cannibalism?

You see, I don’t have a problem with the “Lord’s prayer.” It’s pretty Islamic actually. On the otherhand, Jesus did fall on his face to pray to God. If it’s not important, why did he do that?

People always say that actions speak louder than words. Did Jesus not teach by actions?

 

[Sister_Amy]

Its not tough at all. Just look at the Patriarchal Journeys [Gen 12-50] and you have nothing connecting the life and journeys of Abraham, or any other, to Mecca. There has to be a Biblical connection, even a mystical connection that may be ordinarily unclear, for these types of claims. And you just don’t have it.

(1) Why does there have to be?
(2) Do you expect the book of Genesis to tell you every single place Abraham went?
(3) Have you examined where Hagar supposedly went (according to Genesis), when Abraham’s other wife supposedly expelled her? And do you know where that place might be?

This is comedy. The absolute absence of evidence is all you need to believe that the story was true?! There is nothing connecting Abraham to Mecca until the 7th century AD, and the connection was fabricated to sanctify a pagan shrine.

Clearly something was connecting Abraham to Mecca before the 7th century. Weren’t you just saying earlier that there was another religion of people, who had taught Muhammad about Abraham in the first place? If the Ka’ba were supposed to be a sanctified pagan shrine, then it’s very odd that Muhammad went in and destroyed all the idols. Isn’t it?

Side question: if someone put a statue of Jesus, or Mary, inside of a building and prayed to those statues, would you call that building a… what was your word… pagan shrine?

How could the Arabs have come there ***after ***Ishmael was left there? I thought the Arabs were ***descendents ***of Ishmael? Think before you post!

I do think, though I will exhort you again to think while you read, because thinking is a critical skill for understanding. There was a tribe called Jurham (or maybe it was Durham and I misheard by teacher… sorry) who came to the well where Hagar was with her son, Ishmael. I’m pretty sure we can call them Arabs. Ishmael lived with them, married from their women, and his descendants were mixed with theirs.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Of course Jesus led through actions he died on the Cross and he didn’t just come for the Jews. The Bible clearly says that Jesus said to his disciples during the last supper he took bread gave it to his disciples said take this all of you and eat it this is my body which will be given up for you then he took the cup filled with wine and said to his disciples take this all of you and drink from it this is my blood which will be shed for you. Do these things in memory of me. Now if you want to disrespect Jesus by saying that the disciples in engaged in cannibalism you go right ahead because I’m not the one that will have to answer to God for that on Judgment Day you are. As for the prayer component of this I think other Catholics have adequately addressed your question here as they have said there’s no mandate for us to pray like Muslims so we are not required to do it. Instead Jesus gave us to simple mandates not to pray just for show and to pray in a quiet place to our father.I’m sorry the Lord’s prayer is not Islamic.

I think you misunderstood me, since I used a deliberately controversial word which I find, in present company, to be accurate.

That aside.

I never said that you or Catholics should be praying like Muslims. Rather, I asked why Jesus did so, and if there is anything one can learn from that act?

And secondly, I said that the Lord’s prayer is, in fact, quite Islamic.

 

[dzheremi]

Although I am not sure how much (if any) stock I put into such things, I have read that the differences in prayer postures in the East and the West has to do with what was historically considered a humble, supplicative posture in the given regions. For what it’s worth, I have no problem with prostration and do engage in it myself privately (as a Latin Rite Catholic, this would be inappropriate at Mass).

I do take great offense at the suggestion that the Lord’s Prayer is Islamic, though. I understand that you mean that it is in harmony with Islamic principles, but in the context of our differing theologies, this cannot be the truth. For worship of the Father, from whom the Son is eternally begotten, it is a beautiful prayer shared by Christians all over the world, given to us by the Son Himself who you deny in every other arena. It is not right, then, that you should lay claim to something given to you by the One who you have rejected. You reject His sacrifice but claim His prayer? I do not know what to say to that. It is deeply offensive, even if you meant it as something positive (I’m assuming you did, given the smiley).

I am tired of Christ and the faith being treated as frivolities everywhere. It wears on the soul. God, give me strength from You to resist the ways of the world and its profanities.

The Lord’s Prayer (“Our Father”/Abun D’Bashmayo) in Syriac

 

[planten]

Originally Posted by SteveLohr
One of the points that Mr. Spencer makes on almost a weekly basis is that he is willing to be proven wrong on his points. He has offered to debate any of his critics to show him how his reporting is incorrect, and makes his email address freely available to spark such debate. As far as I know, his critics rarely, if ever, take him up on this offer. In my 15+ years of studying Islam, I can’t say I’ve ever found his reports or interpretations to be clearly in error. What claims of his particularly bother you?

Steve you have followed Spencer for 15 years. Wat did he say please? Can you present anything of value from his teachings?

 

[SteveLohr]

Can’t say, as I have far better things to do than read his websites and books.

Although I will tell you that I did come across one book of his in my parents’ house while they were out of town. I took one chapter of the book and identified lies on almost every single page of a chapter I selected to read. I left post-it notes on almost every page explaining the inaccuracies, but never saw the book again. That was a couple years ago, though, and I don’t remember even which chapter it was, though I think it was about women.

I do recall however, that at least one hadith was seemingly deliberately mistranslated. It enraged me to read that. The author took the hadith to mean exactly the opposite of what it said. The hadith is one where some women had complained to the Prophet about their husbands beating them, and the Prophet replied that “they” are not the best among “you.” And Spencer’s book claimed that it was the women who were “not the best” because they were complaining. He actually spelled that out. When in fact, the hadith is saying the opposite, that the men were “not the best” because they were beating their wives.

That’s the sort of problem I have with Robert Spencer. He takes an actual hadith, and either mistranslates it, or gives the wrong meaning from it, misinterpreting it. Either tactic is deceitful.

Hmm. In order to respond I’d need, as a minimum, the name of Mr. Spencer’s book, and the Haddith he was citing. Would you happen to recall both of those? Otherwise, I would have to say that your allegation is unproven. The fact is that Mr. Spencer is very careful with his translations and uses mainstream Islamic scholarship, unless otherwise cited. Additionally, he is willing to discuss his ideas with anyone, especially Muslims. Consequentially, without more information, I’d have to say that your claim is unproven.

Regards,

 

[SteveLohr]

Steve you have followed Spencer for 15 years. Wat did he say please? Can you present anything of value from his teachings?

Planten-Sorry if I wasn’t clear. I have been studying Islam for 15 years. I’ve been following Mr. Spencer for approximately 7 of those years. Mr. Spencer doesn’t “teach” per se. He reports what muslims teach, and how others muslims interpret Islam, and comments on those teachings from the prespective of their consistency, intellectual rigor and how they comport with ideals of justice and humanity. He has written multiple books, all of which are available on Amazon.com. He has a very active free website www.jihadwatch.org which will give you an idea of his thinking.
According to his website, these are Mr. Spencer’s objectives in discussing Islam (edited due to posting limitations. Full version availble here: jihadwatch.org/why-jihad.htm):

“JIHAD IS A CENTRAL DUTY of every Muslim. Modern Muslim theologians have spoken of many things as jihads: the struggle within the soul, defending the faith from critics, supporting its growth and defense financially, even migrating to non-Muslim lands for the purpose of spreading Islam. But in Islamic history and doctrine violent jihad is founded on numerous verses of the Qur’an — most notably, one known in Islamic theology as the “Verse of the Sword”: “Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is forgiving, merciful” (Sura 9:5).
Establishing “regular worship” and paying the “poor-due” (zakat) means essentially that they will become Muslim, as these are two of the central responsibilities of every Muslim.
Sahih Bukhari, which Muslims regard as the most trustworthy of all the many collections … records this statement of the Prophet: “Allah assigns for a person who participates in (holy battles) in Allah’s Cause and nothing causes him to do so except belief in Allah and in His Messengers, that he will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty (if he survives) or will be admitted to Paradise (if he is killed in the battle as a martyr).”
Ibn Khaldun…notes that “in the Muslim community, the holy war is a religious duty, because of the universalism of the Muslim mission and (the obligation to) convert everybody to Islam either by persuasion or by force.” …
Violent jihad is a constant of Islamic history. … The theology of jihad, with all its assumptions about unbelievers‚ lack of human rights and dignity, is available today as a justification for anyone with the will and the means to bring it to life.
Jihad Watch is dedicated to bringing public attention to the role that jihad theology and ideology play in the modern world and to correcting popular misconceptions about the role of jihad and religion in modern-day conflicts. By shedding as much light as possible on these matters, we hope to alert people of good will to the true nature of the present global conflict.
Jihad Watch also includes Dhimmi Watch… Dhimmitude is the status that Islamic law, the Sharia, mandates for non-Muslims, primarily Jews and Christians. Dhimmis, “protected people,” are free to practice their religion in a Sharia regime, but are made subject to a number of humiliating regulations designed to enforce the Qur’an’s command that they “feel themselves subdued” (Sura 9:29). This denial of equality of rights and dignity remains part of the Sharia, and, as such, are part of the legal superstructure that global jihadists are laboring to … ultimately to impose on the entire human race…
But in this era of global terrorism it must be said: this silence, this distortion, has become deadly. Before 9/11 it was easy to ignore and whitewash dhimmitude, but the atrocities changed the situation forever. In jihads throughout history, untold millions have died. Tens of millions have been uprooted from their homes. Tens of millions have been stripped of their cultural identity. To continue to gloss over the destruction wrought by jihad ideology and its attendant evil of dhimmitude is today to play into the hands of jihadists, who have repeatedly vowed to dhimmify the West and destroy any recalcitrant elements. While jihadist groups, even with their global diffusion, are not strong enough to realize this goal by themselves, they have a potent and destructive ally, a genuine fifth column, in the dhimmi academics and dhimmi journalists they have recruited in the West. They have succeeded in confusing millions in the West into mistaking honesty and truthfulness for bigotry, and self-defense for oppression. …
Jihad Watch fights to ensure that deeds done in the darkness for so long will not continue to be done. The light of world attention is anathema to the proponents of jihad and dhimmitude: we have seen in recent years that women sentenced to stoning for adultery, often victims of rape unjustly accused thanks to Sharia laws disallowing rape victims’ testimony, were freed following international outcry. Jihad Watch seeks to provoke similar, continuous and increasing outcry wherever and whenever the Sharia’s institutionalized injustices threaten dhimmis and women…”

For what its worth, I find Mr. Spencer to be intellectually honest with defendable interpretations concerning Islam. He is careful to cite sources, and uses mainstream scholarship, unless noted otherwise. He is very open to discussion. He appears to be extremely affable. While his conclusions will generally not be pleasant to a muslim audience, they are defendable positions based on reasonable interpretations of facts, the Quran, the generally accepted Haddith and Sunna, as well as Islamic practice and history.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Omar - United Kingdom

I have heard that bashfulness and shyness are wonderful qualities praised in the Qur’an and the Sunnah, but what about when someone is not shy, but bold and brave, such as when someone wants to socialize with friends of the same or opposite gender or speak out in public, etc.?

… Sheikh Ahmad Kutty, Canada :

The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, “Faith is like a tree with seventy branches, the loftiest of it is the testimony of Oneness of Allah, while the lowest of it is removing what is objectionable from the path of people, and shyness is a branch of faith.”

He is also reported to have said, “One of the legacies of the ancient prophecy is, ‘If you are not shy, do whatever you wish!’”

Now the question arises, what is meant by haya’ (shyness) in the above traditions?

… We know as a matter of fact that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) never permitted haya’ or shyness to stand in the way of one’s pursuit of knowledge; for the Islamic dictum is all too well known: “There is no haya’ in seeking knowledge.” … we hear `A’ishah, the beloved wife of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), applauding the women of the Ansar for their boldness in addressing such questions to the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) because of their earnest desire to enhance their knowledge and practice of Islam.

… one should never allow one’s haya’ to prevent one from speaking the truth or restoring the rights that may otherwise be trampled. Hence, the Prophetic dictum, “The supreme form of jihad is to speak a word of truth in face of a tyrannical ruler!”

…you should ask yourself, are you bold for the sake of Allah? Or stated differently, are you doing so in order to speak the truth or restore justice or rights? Or are you simply being reckless and you don’t care whether rashness leads you to violate the limits of Allah?

…Related Questions

• Remitting Mahr (Dower) out of Shyness
• Islam and the Concept of Steadfastness (Istiqamah)
• How to Instill Islamic Manners in Children

Allah Almighty knows best.

 

[Lothair]

The Prophet Hud was sent to the people of 'Ad. The Prophet Salih was sent to the people of Thamud. And the Prophet Shu’ayb was sent to the people of Madyan. You may read accounts of all of them in the Qur’an

These names do not appear in the Bible, so their credentials must be suspect. In fact, They should be ignored entirely. Thamud, for example, is most likely entirely mythical. While a few less well read may just jump for articficial evidence, the hard truth is that these ‘prophets’ and the places they traveled are about as authentic as Rumple Stilskin. The Quran 7:74; 15:82; 26:149; 89:9] seems to confuse the Thamud with the Nabeteans, and least we forget, this is where Allah’s she-camel jumped out of a rock and was mistreated by the inhabitants in order to get her share of the water. But, why did Allah’s she-camel, a divine Ungulate of Allah, need water at all? And what is Allah ***doing ***with a she-camel in the first place?!

“Stories of the Prophets” by Ibn Kathir

This is not primary evidecnce at all. You might as well believe in Atlantis after reading some 20th century publication that only relies on itself for evidence.

I don’t know about 'Ad or Thamud, but the people of Madyan appear in the Bible, called Midian. I’m told it’s equivalent.

Madyan may have been a spelling of Midian, but, Shayub isn’t known in any Jewish Scripture, tradition or myth.