Question on Islam -- round 4

[SteveLohr]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Thus, Allah raised Jesus up to Heaven, and so he was saved from an accursed death on the cross, in contrast to what his enemies and even his self-styled “followers” alleged.

It was the plan of the enemies of Jesus to crucify him, but Allah foiled their plan. So to believe in his death by crucifixion means to believe that those unbelievers were successful against God’s plan. But assuredly they could not crucify Jesus the Messenger of Allah.

islamonline.net/livedialogue/english/Browse.asp?hGuestID=a3sJmP

That’s one crucial misunderstanding that Muslims have about Christianity. We believe that Jesus’ death was part of God’s plan.

Regards,

 

[SteveLohr]

**

Now come to the christians. Their fault is the opposite of the Jews. They raise the status of any messenger Prophet of God above what he really is. They do not downplay him, harm him or kill him. They respect him more than what he deserves. The example of Jesus, a mere man of God, is well known to every one. They made him into God.

We Muslism are forbidden to follow any such line as that of the Jews and the christians. We are told not to abuse, disrespect or kill any messenger of God. We are told not to raise the status of any man of God above what he really is.

**

Planten-As I mentioned 2 days ago, (post 459)I think the evidence is really good that Jesus is more than mere man. For instance, consider his miracles. Below is my post from 1 May describing his miracles:

Planten-I wouldn’t bring up Dr. Graham’s refusal to perform miracles, if I were you, as that argument shows the relative superiority of Jesus over Mohammad. You see, The Quran acknowledges that he preformed no miracles. See Generally Quran 17:92-95; 13:7
On the other hand, Jesus is clearly shown as doing the following miracles:

The Miracles of Jesus Christ

1. Stilling the Storm Matt
2. Feeding the 5000
3. Walking on the Water
4. Feeding the 4000
5. Temple Tax in the Fish’s Mouth
6. Withering the Fig Tree
7. Draught of Fish
8. Turning Water into Wine
9. Second Draught of Fish

Healing Miracles
General Healings

1. Cleansing of a Leper
2. Healing a Centurion’s Servant
3. Healing Peter’s Mother-in-law
4. Healing the Sick at evening
5. Healing a paralytic
6. Healing the Hemorrhaging woman
7. Healing Two Blind Men
8. Healing a Man’s Withered Hand
9. Healing the Gentile Woman’s Daughter
10. Healing the Epileptic Boy
11. Healing a Blind Men
12. Healing a Deaf Mute
13. Healing a Blind Man at Bethsaida
14. Healing the Infirm, Bent Woman
15. Healing the Man with Dropsy
16. Cleansing the Ten Lepers
17. Restoring a Servant’s Ear
18. Healing the Nobleman’s Son (of fever)
19. Healing an Infirm Man at Bethesda
20. Healing the Man born blind

Resurrections

1. Raising the Ruler’s Daughter
2. Raising of a Widow’s Son at Nain
3. Raising of Lazarus
   Casting out Demons
4. Demons entering a herd of swine
5. Curing a Demon-possessed Mute
6. Casting Out an Unclean Spirit
7. Curing a Demon-possessed, Blind and Mute man

(H/T bcbsr.com/survey/jmrcls.html for the list)

If your argument that Dr. Graham is less of a prophet than the Ahmadi preacher is valid, then using the exact same logic one necessarily has to agree that Jesus is far superior in comparrison to Mohammad.

Regards,

 

[SteveLohr]

Planten-following up on this point, there are the prophecies regarding Jesus. I’m also reposting these. (From post 460) How does the Muslim belief in Jesus being merely a prophet address this evidence?

Planten-another point I would make is that Christians haven’t “turned a weak man into God.” The evidence is that He is in fact, God. For instance, consider the role of prophecy. Here are eight old testament prophecies concerning the Messiah:

-Micah foretells Jesus’ birthplace in Bethlehem.
-Malachi, Isaiah predicts John the Baptist.
-Zechariah in approx 520-480 CE predicts that Jesus would arrive on a donkey.
-King David may have predicted that Jesus would be betrayed.
-King David may have predicted the crucifixion.
-Zechariah may have predicted the price of Judas for betraying Jesus. Also the ultimate use of the money.
-Isaiah predicted Jesus’ remaining silent before his accusers.
-Isaiah predicted Jesus would be crucified with thieves.

The odds of just these eight prophecies being fulfilled in one man is roughly
1:100,000,000,000,000,000
(Source: Stoner, Peter, Science Speaks. Chicago: Moody Press, 1963, pg. 100-07. A copy is available at geocities.com/stonerdon/science_speaks.html )

However, There are more prophecies:

-The Messiah was to be born from a virgin. Isaiah 7:14.
-Messiah was to enter Jerusalem in triumph. Zechariah 9:9
-The Messiah was to die as a sacrifice for sin. Isaiah 53:5
-The Messiah would be from the seed of Abraham (Gen 22:18-Matt 1:1)
-The Messiah would come from the linage of Isaac (Gen 21:12-Luke 3:34)
-The Messiah would be from the linage of Jacob (Num 24:17-Luke 3:34)
-The Messiah would be from the tribe of Judah (Gen 49:10-Luke 3:33)
-The Messiah would not respond to his accusers (Isaiah 53:7-Matt 27:12-19)
-The Messiah would be wounded and bruised (Isaiah 53:5-Matt 27:26)
-The Messiah would be smitten and spit upon (Isaiah 50:6-Matt 26:67)
-The Messiah would be mocked (Psalms 22:2-8-Matt 27:31
-The Messiah’s hands and feet would be pierced (Psalms 22:16-Luke 23:33)
-The Messiah would make intercession for His persecutors (Isaiah 53:12-Luke 23:34)
-The Messiah would be hated by His own people (Isaiah 53:3-John 7:5, 48)
-The Messiah would be hated without cause (Psalms 69:4-John 15:25)
-The Messiah’s friends would stand far off (Psalm 38:11-Luke 23:49)
-People shook their heads at Him (Psalms 109:25-Matt 27:39)
-They divided His garments and cast lots for them (Psalm 22:18-John 19:23, 24)
-He was to suffer thirst (Psalms 69:21)
-They offered him gall and vinegar to drink (Psalms 69:21-Matt 27:34)
-He cried aloud ‘My God, My God” (Psalms 22:1-Matt 27:46
-He committed his Spirit (Psalm 31:5-Luke 23:46)
-His bones were not broken (Psalms 34:20-John 19:33)
-His heart was broken (Psalms 22:14-John 19:34)
-His side was pierced (Zech 12:10-John 19:34)
-Darkness would come over the land (Amos 8:9-Matt 27:45)
-He would be buried in a rich man’s grave (Isaiah 53:9-Matt 27:57-60)
-The Messiah would be from the line of Jesse (Isaiah 11:1-Luke 3:23, 32)
-The Messiah would be from the House of David (Jerm 23:5-Luke 3:23, 31)
-The Messiah would be called Lord (Psalms 110:1-Luke 2:11)
-The Messiah would be a prophet (Deut 18:18-Matt 21:11)
-The Messiah would be a priest (Psalms 110:4-Heb 3:1)
-The Messiah would be a judge (Isaiah 33:22-John 5:30)
-The Messiah would be a King (Psalms 2:6-Matt 27:37)
-The Messiah would have the Holy Spirit (Isaiah 11:2-Matt 3:16-17)
-The Messiah would perform miracles (Isaiah 35:5, 6-Matt 9:35)
-The Messiah would teach in parables (Psalm 78:2-Matt 13:34)
-The Messiah would be betrayed by a friend (Psalms 41:9-Matt 10:4)
-The Messiah would be sold for 30 pieces of silver (Zech 11:12-Matt 26:15)
-The money would be thrown in God’s house (Zech 11:13-Matt 27:5)
-The Messiah would be forsaken by His disciples (Zech 13:7-Mark 14:50)
-The Messiah would be accused by false witnesses (Psalm 35:11-Matt 26:59-61)

Odds of forty-three of the prophecies being fulfilled are 10 raised to the 156th power, i.e., :
1:100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

(Source: Stoner, Peter, Science Speaks. Chicago: Moody Press, 1963, pg. 100-07. A copy is available at geocities.com/stonerdon/science_speaks.html )

Just to compare, the total number of atoms in the known universe is approximately 10 raised to the 80th power. In short, the odds of these prophecies being fulfilled in one man is vastly greater than the number of atoms in this universe!

In my opinion, this is pretty good evidence that Jesus is who He says He is.

Regards,

 

[planten]

Planten-following up on this point, there are the prophecies regarding Jesus. I’m also reposting these. (From post 460) How does the Muslim belief in Jesus being merely a prophet address this evidence?

SteveLohr, thank you for copying from somewhere without checking. You have taken a lot of trouble. But they ask “How much.” The reply is “Too much!”

See part of your post below:

1. Micah foretells Jesus’ birthplace in Bethlehem.
   2.-Malachi, Isaiah predicts John the Baptist.
   3.-Zechariah in approx 520-480 CE predicts that Jesus would arrive on a donkey.
   4.-King David may have predicted that Jesus would be betrayed.
   5.-King David may have predicted the crucifixion.
   6.-Zechariah may have predicted the price of Judas for betraying Jesus. Also the ultimate use of the money.
   7.-Isaiah predicted Jesus’ remaining silent before his accusers.
   8.-Isaiah predicted Jesus would be crucified with thieves.

I have numbered your points. You have not given any reference at all except the name Malachi and Isiah etc. Do you mean that I read those books for you. I request you to post the relevant chapters and verses here on the net for all the above points which only you seem to know. Otherwise you have no case.

Also please explain to me about point number 3. -Zechariah in approx 520-480 CE predicts… What is that 520 to 480 CE? Please explain and who is that zechariah. Is that the father of John the baptist?/ Welcome.

 

[SteveLohr]

SteveLohr, thank you for copying from somewhere without checking. You have taken a lot of trouble. But they ask “How much.” The reply is “Too much!”

See part of your post below:

1. Micah foretells Jesus’ birthplace in Bethlehem.
   2.-Malachi, Isaiah predicts John the Baptist.
   3.-Zechariah in approx 520-480 CE predicts that Jesus would arrive on a donkey.
   4.-King David may have predicted that Jesus would be betrayed.
   5.-King David may have predicted the crucifixion.
   6.-Zechariah may have predicted the price of Judas for betraying Jesus. Also the ultimate use of the money.
   7.-Isaiah predicted Jesus’ remaining silent before his accusers.
   8.-Isaiah predicted Jesus would be crucified with thieves.

I have numbered your points. You have not given any reference at all except the name Malachi and Isiah etc. Do you mean that I read those books for you. I request you to post the relevant chapters and verses here on the net for all the above points which only you seem to know. Otherwise you have no case.

Also please explain to me about point number 3. -Zechariah in approx 520-480 CE predicts… What is that 520 to 480 CE? Please explain and who is that zechariah. Is that the father of John the baptist?/ Welcome.

Planten-Thanks for correcting me. The list came from an outline I wrote awhile back. The sources are there, but in footnotes, which didn’t copy into this webpage. Here is a corrected version, with the citations:

1. Micah foretells Jesus’ birthplace in Bethlehem. Micah 5:2
   2.-Malachi, Isaiah predicts John the Baptist. Isa. 40:3; Mal. 3:1
   3.-Zechariah in approx 520-480 CE predicts that Jesus would arrive on a donkey. Zechariah 9:9
   4.-King David may have predicted that Jesus would be betrayed. Psalm 41:9
   5.-King David may have predicted the crucifixion. Psalm 22:16
   6.-Zechariah may have predicted the price of Judas for betraying Jesus. Also the ultimate use of the money. Zechariah 11:4-13
   7.-Isaiah predicted Jesus’ remaining silent before his accusers. Isaiah 53:7
   8.-Isaiah predicted Jesus would be crucified with thieves. Isaiah 53:12

The entire outline is available here:
geocities.com/stevelohr2001/jesus-factorfiction06242008.html

Zechariah is one of the books of the Old Testament. I probably should have cut the note out about when Zechariah wrote. It was part of the outline which I cut and pasted from, and I simply missed cutting in out for the purposes of posting on this webpage. The point of that note is simply that the book of Zechariah was written well before Jesus was born. The abbreviation “BCE” means “Before Common Era.” and “CE” means “Common Era.” They are identical to the abbreviations “BC” and “AD.” Also, thanks. I realize that there is a typo in my outline. It should read that Zechariah was written in 520 to 480 BCE, not CE. I’ll get that fixed

Best,

 

[Aydan]

I do believe as a Christian that it was Jesus on the cross. But I was just telling the story that I’ve heard from other Muslims about Jesus being replaced on the cross. If you say it is incorrect that I believe you because you have read the Koran more than I have. Thank you for letting us know that.

**I hope that it was all done. If not then also no harm. It is written in the bible for some purpose, by some witnesses. It is not being told by Jesus in his own words.

Once he was arrested, it is quite possible that he was beaten and whipped and crowned to humilate him. I cannot say anything definite about it because it is not in the Quran. But need not deny that all bad treatment was done to Jesus by his arch enemies.

If you are interested in finding something else from me then I tell you that it was Jesus himself on the cross and he was not replaced by any other person. Jesus had cried out and called his God on the cross.

The replacement theory is totally unislamic, illogical, has no base in islam. It is also not suitable for any Jew or christian. Would you believe that Jesus himself was not on the cross but some other person was put on the cross in place of Jesus?? I hope not. Thanks.**

 

[Sister_Amy]

Why wouldn’t this be significant? If it was significant enough for God to put 99 names in the Quran that He wanted to be called, shouldn’t there be THE one in there that was previously revealed to confirm the authenticity of the Quran - that it* is *in fact a revelation from God? That would be my take on it. Perhaps one of our Arabic speakers can weigh in on this as to whether God’s name as revealed to Moses is confirmed in the Quran.

Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

Why don’t you read the Qur’an for yourself, and see? I’ve never seen it there, and I don’t see a problem with that. God has told the Muslims which names to call him by in the Qur’an, and the Qur’an is already proof enough of its authenticity.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Okay how do you explain this translation that I’ve seenin the following flash presentation

“Guide us to the straight path, the path of those on whom you bestowed grace,not the path of those who incurred wrath (such as the Jews) nor who went astray (such as the Christians).”

jannah.com/learn/flashprayer1.html

That is exactly what I told you it said, I shouldn’t have to explain anything. The passage when read by a Muslim is asking for guidance. Not protection. The guidance being sought is guidance toward the straight path, or to stay on the straight path.

What is further clarified in the rest of the passage is the path. Don’t guide us to the path of those two groups. Some people interpret that to mean Jews and Christians but it not at all the only valid interpretation. If it were to mean only Jews and Christians, it would say Jews and Christians.

Those who incurred wrath are those who deliberately disobeyed God, and those who went astray were those who got confused. The Muslim asks to be guided away from those paths of error, and toward the correct path.

So I’ll reiterate, the prayer is for guidance, and it specified what kind of guidance–what it’s toward, and what it’s away from.

 

[jakasaki]

Okay how do you explain this translation that I’ve seenin the following flash presentation

**“Guide us to the straight path, the path of those on whom you bestowed grace,not the path of those who incurred wrath (such as the Jews) nor who went astray (such as the Christians).” **

jannah.com/learn/flashprayer1.html

Hi Aydan… the quote from above which I’ve made in bold/black, is that a passage in the koran? And if it is can you tell me which one is it…

Thanks!
Pam

 

[morning_star777]

**

The replacement theory is totally unislamic**, illogical, has no base in islam. It is also not suitable for any Jew or christian. Would you believe that Jesus himself was not on the cross but some other person was put on the cross in place of Jesus?? I hope not. Thanks.

Total unislamic?But planten,always I have heard the theory, that Judas was crucified instead of Jesus.Many Muslim clerics say that,when Judas came outside then Allah changed his face as Jesus!But I do not know it is supported by Koran or not.But I do not think that clerics tell unislamic theory,because the clerics are not illiterate like many Muslim clerics!.Now I think, I will have to search Koran and Hadith again for this theory .

 

[Lothair]

Rather, it’s like how a true flower surpasses in beauty that of any painting.

Or rather just like how a good copy-cat can mimic the original. Hey, I wrote a play this weekend called ‘Horatio’. The story takes place in Argentina, and the main character is a young prince named ’Horatio’. His ***mother ***dies in a shipwreak off the coast of Ireland in 1954. Now, he is very troubled, but after seeing the ghost of his deceased mother, he takes action that is stunning and exciting. It may read alot like ‘Hamlet’, but don’t let that bother you. My Horatio much improves on Shakespeare in a few noteable ways. One, I trimmed the length from five acts to three. Much easier to read now. I also added a few more characters not found in the original. I improved the dialogue by adding a few more speches then removed Rosencrantz and Guildenstern from the plot because because they had Jewish sounding names.

I am certain that in an Islamic country, getting a copyright would be effortless. After all, I could tell the copyright office that the original has been corrupted and my renditon was a necessary act of textual perservation.

 

[Aydan]

Hi Aydan… the quote from above which I’ve made in bold/black, is that a passage in the koran? And if it is can you tell me which one is it…

Thanks!
Pam

yes it is in the Koran in the first chapter however I must make one correction the translation I’ve seen in link that I posted actually says straight way rather than straight path I don’t know which Koran translation it is because most of the translations do not reference Christians or Jews R not can you tell us which translation this is? Anyway this is how it was explained to me

That is exactly what I told you it said, I shouldn’t have to explain anything. The passage when read by a Muslim is asking for guidance. Not protection. The guidance being sought is guidance toward the straight path, or to stay on the straight path.

What is further clarified in the rest of the passage is the path. Don’t guide us to the path of those two groups. Some people interpret that to mean Jews and Christians but it not at all the only valid interpretation. If it were to mean only Jews and Christians, it would say Jews and Christians.

Those who incurred wrath are those who deliberately disobeyed God, and those who went astray were those who got confused. The Muslim asks to be guided away from those paths of error, and toward the correct path.

So I’ll reiterate, the prayer is for guidance, and it specified what kind of guidance–what it’s toward, and what it’s away from.

**Aydan, the translation and its interpretation that you have given above is correct. The Jews had been cursed by King David and also by Jesus. That is written in the Quran. Ben Masada is posting and saying that Jews had been cursed by many others.

That settles for the Jews. Coming to christians, you are lucky that Quran admits the christians initially had the truth (true guidance) with them. By saying they went astry, it is meant that they went astray after having the true guidance.

Now come to the fault of the Jews, the most selected and elected people of God. Their mistake or sin was that whenever any man of God (messenger Prophet) came to them, they ridiculed him, dishonored him, even tried to kill him. That is written in the Quran. (The example of Jesus is the best one. That was the last of the Israeli messenger Prophet they tried to kill.)

Now come to the christians. Their fault is the opposite of the Jews. They raise the status of any messenger Prophet of God above what he really is. They do not downplay him, harm him or kill him. They respect him more than what he deserves. The example of Jesus, a mere man of God, is well known to every one. They made him into God.

We Muslism are forbidden to follow any such line as that of the Jews and the christians. We are told not to abuse, disrespect or kill any messenger of God. We are told not to raise the status of any man of God above what he really is.

But Muslims have also forgotten this important lesson now and they are guilty of disobeying the important part of that prayer. The present day Muslims are walking in the footsteps of the Jews and the christians. That is why they are losing ground and being punished all over the world.
**

 

[Aydan]

you’re right you don’t have to because planten was nice enough to take the time to explain to me.

That is exactly what I told you it said, I shouldn’t have to
explain anything. The passage when read by a Muslim is asking for guidance. Not protection. The guidance being sought is guidance toward the straight path, or to stay on the straight path.

What is further clarified in the rest of the passage is the path. Don’t guide us to the path of those two groups. Some people interpret that to mean Jews and Christians but it not at all the only valid interpretation. If it were to mean only Jews and Christians, it would say Jews and Christians.

Those who incurred wrath are those who deliberately disobeyed God, and those who went astray were those who got confused. The Muslim asks to be guided away from those paths of error, and toward the correct path.

So I’ll reiterate, the prayer is for guidance, and it specified what kind of guidance–what it’s toward, and what it’s away from.

 

[jakasaki]

yes it is in the Koran in the first chapter however I must make one correction the translation I’ve seen in link that I posted actually says straight way rather than straight path I don’t know which Koran translation it is because most of the translations do not reference Christians or Jews R not can you tell us which translation this is? Anyway this is how it was explained to me

OK, 1st chapter: Thank God it only had 7 verses for me to read and post…

Al-Fatiha | 7 verses | The Opening | Tafsir سورة الفاتحة
Sura #1 | Makkah

1 In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
2 Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds,
3 The Beneficent, the Merciful.
4 Master of the Day of Judgment,
5 Thee (alone) we worship; Thee (alone) we ask for help.
6 Show us the straight path,
7 The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not the (path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray.

And now the explaination/tafsir:

That is, “Show us that way which may lead us aright in every walk of life and keep us absolutely free from errors and evil consequences and bring us success in the end.” , This is the request which the servant of Allah makes to Him when he begins the study of the Qur’an.

He prays to Him to guide him in every walk of life and save him from the labyrinths of doubt and uncertainty, which result from the lack of true knowledge. The servant also requests the Master to show him the right and the straight way of life from among the many by-paths and crooked ways.

The straight way for which we are praying is the way which has always been followed by the people favored by Thee and which has always brought Thy favors and blessings.

This is to show that the favored people are not those who go astray and incur the wrath of Allah, though apparently they might be enjoying the transitory good things of life. The really favored people are those who receive blessings on account of their righteous living.

From this it also becomes clear that by favors are meant those real and permanent rewards, which result from righteous living and from winning the pleasure of Allah, and not those transitory good things of life which have been enjoyed even by the tyrants and worshipers of mammon and which are being enjoyed even today by all sorts of evildoers who have gone astray from the straight way.

 

[Jay53]

Why don’t you read the Qur’an for yourself, and see? I’ve never seen it there, and I don’t see a problem with that. God has told the Muslims which names to call him by in the Qur’an, and the Qur’an is already proof enough of its authenticity.

So you are saying that God did not give Moses the name “I AM” or you don’t care that He did nor that it doesn’t appear in the Quran because you prefer to believe Muhammad? Again you are confusing me with what you are trying to say. Please note that I am not trying to put words in your mouth, but that is the conclusion I am reaching from what you wrote. Please explain if this is not correct.

How is the Quran proof enough of its authenticity? I have seen no proof as of yet - in fact I’m beginning to believe that if God’s name as He gave it to Moses does not appear in there then that would be a big red flag as to it being NOT from God.

(And, BTW, no offense intended, but I cannot read the Quran, start to finish. I can only handle a few verses at a time. I get a very bad feeling reading it (i.e. the heebie jeebies ). That is not a joke or to make light of anyone who can read and study it, I just can’t. This unsettled feeling probably contributes to my own personal opinion that it is not from God. )

 

[Lothair]

That is exactly what I told you it said, I shouldn’t have to explain anything. The passage when read by a Muslim is asking for guidance

 

[Agabriel]

(And, BTW, no offense intended, but I cannot read the Quran, start to finish. I can only handle a few verses at a time. I get a very bad feeling reading it (i.e. the heebie jeebies ). That is not a joke or to make light of anyone who can read and study it, I just can’t. This unsettled feeling probably contributes to my own personal opinion that it is not from God. )

I am with you here. It gives me a headache and makes me tired of it all. I don’t find anything pleasing, soothing for the soul, or anything like that in the Quran.

I don’t know if I call it the heebie jeebies, but it does ‘get to me’.

 

[Jay53]

I am with you here. It gives me a headache and makes me tired of it all. I don’t find anything pleasing, soothing for the soul, or anything like that in the Quran.

I don’t know if I call it the heebie jeebies, but it does ‘get to me’.

My reaction is more than even just intellectually not liking/agreeing with the Quran. I literally feel physically uncomfortable if I read more than a couple of verses. It’s like my brain shuts off and I have to close the page/skip ahead whatever - I feel that uncomfortable. I’ve tried reading some verses and have discussed some of the more problematic ones (for me, anyway) here - and I’ve enjoyed most of the discussions I’ve had. That’s about all I can handle, though. Even when someone posts several verses or ahadith, I have to skim them or read a couple and then go back and finish later. Not sure what that’s all about - just one of my quirks (of many ). I just learn to deal with it.

And again, that is not to offend anyone - just my own personal experience.

 

[jakasaki]

My reaction is more than even just intellectually not liking/agreeing with the Quran. I literally feel physically uncomfortable if I read more than a couple of verses. It’s like my brain shuts off and I have to close the page/skip ahead whatever - I feel that uncomfortable. I’ve tried reading some verses and have discussed some of the more problematic ones (for me, anyway) here - and I’ve enjoyed most of the discussions I’ve had. That’s about all I can handle, though. Even when someone posts several verses or ahadith, I have to skim them or read a couple and then go back and finish later. Not sure what that’s all about - just one of my quirks (of many ). I just learn to deal with it.

And again, that is not to offend anyone - just my own personal experience.

Jay,… you are not alone. I too have the same problem. I can read bits and pieces and then I go to the tafsir to try to understand what I’ve read.

My problem is… and it’s a mental problem… processing arabic names. My brain shuts down and I cannot keep up. And it isn’t just the koran, it’s anything dealing with arabic names and words.

And then the PBUH is mixed in there with everytime mohamad is mentioned or any other
“person” is mentioned I shut down even quicker.

 

[jakasaki]

Jay,… you are not alone. I too have the same problem. I can read bits and pieces and then I go to the tafsir to try to understand what I’ve read.

My problem is… and it’s a mental problem… processing arabic names. My brain shuts down and I cannot keep up. And it isn’t just the koran, it’s anything dealing with arabic names and words.

And then the PBUH is mixed in there with everytime mohamad is mentioned or any other
“person” is mentioned I shut down even quicker.

And I want to add, it’s NOT just the arabic names/words it’s also everything that contradicts our Bible. I have never trusted any of the twisted stories in there…