Question on Islam -- round 4

[Muslim_Woman]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

…do Muslims believe that Jesus was beaten whipped and forced to wear a crown of thorns or not?

Holy Quran does not say anything about it . I did not read any hadith describing so . Most probably , Jesus (pbuh) was saved before enemies captured him.

 

[dzheremi]

The important matter is Jesus (pbuh) did not die for our sins . A human being’s death can not free others from their sins . We all will be responsible for our own deeds.

Indeed, we ARE all responsible for our own deeds. Jesus’ sacrifice does not allow us to sin all we want without consequence. That is not what being free from sin means.

If christians are being killed in Turkey for their faith then it is bad. That is being done in some other muslim countries too. Nobody can stop such evil deeds.

Why not? Because there are too many Muslims like you in the world who throw up their hands and say that it is hopeless? Because it is easier to focus on some imaginary “Christian” misdeeds instead of on your own community? Either way, that is not a good attitude. Everyone can do their part to stop evil. It is not easy, but nothing worth doing ever is.

 

[Sam_777]

Indeed, we ARE all responsible for our own deeds. Jesus’ sacrifice does not allow us to sin all we want without consequence. That is not what being free from sin means.

:aok:

 

[SteveLohr]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

The important matter is Jesus (pbuh) did not die for our sins . A human being’s death can not free others from their sins . We all will be responsible for our own deeds.

Muslim Woman-I agree that a human being’s death can not free other humans from sin. But Christians believe that Jesus was more than merely a human. He was also the Son of God and without sin. As such, He was the perfect sacrifice, He paid humanities sin debt for all time, if we choose to accept the sacrifice.
Regards,

 

[Sam_777]

Jesus was more than merely a human. He was also the Son of God and without sin. As such, He was the perfect sacrifice, He paid humanities sin debt for all time, if we choose to accept the sacrifice.

:yup:

 

[Booklover]

Hi Aydan… a little more info please. There are so many that refer to Jews & Christians…

Thanks!
Pam

Hi Aydan and Pam!

It’s 1:6-7, but I couldn’t find the actual reference to Jews and Christians when I checked searchtruth.com.

Vickie

 

[Booklover]

Thanks it wasn’t frustration I was just trying to reconcile the translation I saw in the presentation I posted earlier in the thread. It was a presentation teaching new Muslims how to pray and it made a point of clarifying those people who had incurred the wrath of Allah as Jews and those who had gone astray as Christians I thought it would actually appear that way in the Koran so I was wondering which translation it was. but after checking all of the English translations from the web site you gave me I found out that it does not appear that way in any of the approved English translations of the Koran. I suppose that the author of the video must have added those words in to the verses for clarification purposes. I was confused when planten confirmed that those verses were in fact referring to Jews and Christians so I mistakenly believed that it appeared in the Koran exactly as it appeared in the video and I thought I would find it in one of the English translations but after reading the five approved English translations I know now that is not the case. Thanks for the great web site by the way it makes it easy to verify things.

Hi Aydan! Now that I think about it, Jews and Christians were actually mentioned in a site that Sister Amy gave a link to. I remember that I commented about its maligning them right at the beginning and will try to find the post.

Vickie

 

[Booklover]

Indeed, we ARE all responsible for our own deeds. Jesus’ sacrifice does not allow us to sin all we want without consequence. That is not what being free from sin means.

Why not? Because there are too many Muslims like you in the world who throw up their hands and say that it is hopeless? Because it is easier to focus on some imaginary “Christian” misdeeds instead of on your own community? Either way, that is not a good attitude. Everyone can do their part to stop evil. It is not easy, but nothing worth doing ever is.

Excellent!

Vickie

 

[Agabriel]

Why not? Because there are too many Muslims like you in the world who throw up their hands and say that it is hopeless? Because it is easier to focus on some imaginary “Christian” misdeeds instead of on your own community? Either way, that is not a good attitude. Everyone can do their part to stop evil. It is not easy, but nothing worth doing ever is.

thank you! There is another reason - sharia laws have nothing in them to stop the persecution of others. And so the majority of Muslims do nothing.

 

[Booklover]

Hi Aydan! Now that I think about it, Jews and Christians were actually mentioned in a site that Sister Amy gave a link to. I remember that I commented about its maligning them right at the beginning and will try to find the post.

Vickie

I found it! The site is quransearch. net and here is the to that statement.

Muhsin Khan: The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace , not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians).

Vickie

 

[jakasaki]

I found it! The site is quransearch. net and here is the to that statement.

Muhsin Khan: The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace , not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians).

Vickie

Hmmmmm… Very interesting…

In searchtruth.com Muhsin Khan translation is:

7 The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace , not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (i.e. those who knew the Truth, but did not follow it) nor of those who went astray (i.e. those who did not follow the Truth out of ignorance and error). ,

searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=1&translator=5

How can that be??? Any ideas… ???

 

[jakasaki]

Transliteration 7: Sirata allatheena anAAamta AAalayhim ghayri almaghdoobi AAalayhim wala alddalleena

**Yusuf Ali **7: The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.

**Shakir **7: The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.

**Pickthal **7: The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not the (path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray.

Mohsin Khan: 7: The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace , not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (i.e. those who knew the Truth, but did not follow it) nor of those who went astray (i.e. those who did not follow the Truth out of ignorance and error). ,

searchtruth.com/chapter_display_all.php?chapter=1

None of the above are specific enough to Jews/Christians…

 

[Aydan]

Thank You Vicki that’s exactly what I was looking for its unsettling to think they would include such a translation in a video for new Muslims this and other verses can only fuel the violence against Christians in places like Turkey and other countries.

I found it! The site is quransearch. net and here is the to that statement.

Muhsin Khan: The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace , not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians).

Vickie

 

[Booklover]

Thank You Vicki that’s exactly what I was looking for its unsettling to think they would include such a translation in a video for new Muslims this and other verses can only fuel the violence against Christians in places like Turkey and other countries.

Muslims are always accusing us of making things up to malign Islam, but it seems that a large part of their religious education has to do with degrading others. Here’s an example about the Jews from the for “The Cow”. There’s a lot of nonsense there too for instance as stating that Jews had changed their original name of “Muslims” to “Jews”.

“At Makkah the Quran generally addressed the mushrik Quraish who were ignorant of Islam, but at Al-Madinah it was also concerned with the Jews who were acquainted with the creed of the Unity of Allah, Prophethood, Revelation, the Hereafter and angels. They also professed to believe in the law which was revealed by Allah to their Prophet Moses (Allah’s peace be upon him), and in principle, their way was the same (Islam) that was being taught by Prophet Muhammad (Allah’s peace be upon him). **But they had strayed away from it during the centuries of degeneration and had adopted many un-Islamic creeds, rites and customs of which there was no mention and for which there was no sanction in the Torah. Not only this : they had tampered with the Torah by inserting their own explanations and interpretations into its text. They had distorted even that part of the Word of God which had remained intact in their Scriptures and taken out of it the real spirit of true religion and were now clinging to a lifeless frame of rituals. Consequently their beliefs, their morals and their conduct had gone to the lowest depths of degeneration. **The pity is that they were not only satisfied with their condition but loved to cling to it. Besides this, they had no intention or inclination to accept any kind of reform. So they became bitter enemies of those who came to teach them the Right Way and did their worst to defeat every such effort. **Though they were originally Muslims, they had swerved from the real Islam and made innovations and alterations in it and had fallen victims to hair splitting and sectarianism. They had forgotten and forsaken Allah and begun to serve mammon. So much so that they had even given up their original name “Muslim” and adopted the name “Jew” instead, and made religion the sole monopoly of the children of Israel.” **

Is this what they call true scholarship? The whole thing is nothing but an insult to the Jews and a complete fabrication. Where is their proof that Islam existed before Muhammad?

Vickie

 

[Aydan]

I know we often discuss the meaning of the word Allah. Another interesting thing I found out yesterday when I was looking at a Turkish translation of the Bible. I always assumed that the Turkish Bible would use Allah for God but it doesn’t it uses the ancient Turkish word Tannı which predates Islam. Basically I’ve been using the wrong word for God for a year and a half and now I have to relearn all the phrases like thanks be to God.

 

[jakasaki]

Muslims are always accusing us of making things up to malign Islam, but it seems that a large part of their religious education has to do with degrading others. Here’s an example about the Jews from the for “The Cow”. There’s a lot of nonsense there too for instance as stating that Jews had changed their original name of “Muslims” to “Jews”.

“At Makkah the Quran generally addressed the mushrik Quraish who were ignorant of Islam, but at Al-Madinah it was also concerned with the Jews who were acquainted with the creed of the Unity of Allah, Prophethood, Revelation, the Hereafter and angels. They also professed to believe in the law which was revealed by Allah to their Prophet Moses (Allah’s peace be upon him), and in principle, their way was the same (Islam) that was being taught by Prophet Muhammad (Allah’s peace be upon him). **But they had strayed away from it during the centuries of degeneration and had adopted many un-Islamic creeds, rites and customs of which there was no mention and for which there was no sanction in the Torah. Not only this : they had tampered with the Torah by inserting their own explanations and interpretations into its text. They had distorted even that part of the Word of God which had remained intact in their Scriptures and taken out of it the real spirit of true religion and were now clinging to a lifeless frame of rituals. Consequently their beliefs, their morals and their conduct had gone to the lowest depths of degeneration. **The pity is that they were not only satisfied with their condition but loved to cling to it. Besides this, they had no intention or inclination to accept any kind of reform. So they became bitter enemies of those who came to teach them the Right Way and did their worst to defeat every such effort. **Though they were originally Muslims, they had swerved from the real Islam and made innovations and alterations in it and had fallen victims to hair splitting and sectarianism. They had forgotten and forsaken Allah and begun to serve mammon. So much so that they had even given up their original name “Muslim” and adopted the name “Jew” instead, and made religion the sole monopoly of the children of Israel.” **

Is this what they call true scholarship? The whole thing is nothing but an insult to the Jews and a complete fabrication.

Vickie

It’s an awesome site isn’t Vickie!!!

So much information on the suras… I bet you’ll be using it at all times.

 

[Booklover]

It’s an awesome site isn’t Vickie!!!

So much information on the suras… I bet you’ll be using it at all times.

To tell you the truth, I’m having a bit of trouble navigating the site but I guess it will just take a little practice. Did you have any problems at first?

Vickie

 

[planten]

Indeed, we ARE all responsible for our own deeds. Jesus’ sacrifice does not allow us to sin all we want without consequence. That is not what being free from sin means.

Why not? Because there are too many Muslims like you in the world who throw up their hands and say that it is hopeless? Because it is easier to focus on some imaginary “Christian” misdeeds instead of on your own community? Either way, that is not a good attitude. Everyone can do their part to stop evil. It is not easy, but nothing worth doing ever is.

** dzhereme, Nobody can stop such evil deeds because the christians do not support the moderate Muslims. They support the bigots. The christians say that bigots are doing alright according to Quran while that is not so.

So if people like me keep on shouting, our voice is suppressed by the Catholics. Therefore, nobody can stop such evil deeds. Anyhow, if the Muslims are doing bad in the religious side, the christians are doing worst in the political side. Do you dzhereme try to stop the political turmoil or killing of the Muslism by the western countries? Did your pope ever try? **

 

[jakasaki]

To tell you the truth, I’m having a bit of trouble navigating the site but I guess it will just take a little practice. Did you have any problems at first?

Vickie

I did in the beginning but then I mastered it! I took my time to see how the tabs work.

Give it time but the important matter is that it’s an excellent source…

 

[Aydan]

yeah it’s a bit tricky because of the Arabic terminology so it takes some getting used to even for me and Turkish is my second language.

To tell you the truth, I’m having a bit of trouble navigating the site but I guess it will just take a little practice. Did you have any problems at first?

Vickie