Question on Islam -- round 4

[Jay53]

Jay53, when you really trust someone you will believe them and take their word for things you haven’t seen yourself. Even before the Ministry of the Prophet (pbuh&hf) began. He was known to the Makkans by his nickname Al-Amin (The trustworthy). After God asked The holy prophet to proclaim the message publicly, Muhammad (pbuh&hf) first appealed to their knowledge of his character and the trust they established with him, and asked that they listen to the message and give it careful consideration.

When did God ask Muhammad to proclaim the message publicly and how do you know it was God? That is my point. Muhammad is contradicting scriptures that were already established as being from God. How did the people back then and Muslims today know that these contradictions are from God? There are many people today that I trust, but I wouldn’t just accept their word for it that something they said is a message from God. - Especially if that new message contradicts something I’ve learned has already been verified as being from God.

Jesus was actually infinitely more trustworthy than Muhammad could ever even think of being, yet Muslims don’t believe His words. There has to be more to it than that.

 

[sedonaman]

Jay53, when you really trust someone you will believe them and take their word for things you haven’t seen yourself. …

How is it that this prophet of yours did not come in the same way, with others bearing witness to him? And how is it that God did not in your presence present this man with the book to which you refer, even as He gave the Law to Moses, with the people looking on and the mountain smoking, so that you, too, might have certainty? – they answer that God does as He pleases. “This,” we say, “we know, but we are asking how the book came down to your prophet.” Then they reply that the book came down to him while he was asleep. Then we jokingly say to them that, as long as he received the book in his sleep and did not actually sense the operation, then the popular adage applies to him [which runs: you’re spinning me dreams].
When we ask again: “How is it that when he enjoined us in this book of yours not to do anything or receive anything without witnesses, you did not ask him: ‘First do you show us by witnesses that you are a prophet and that you have come from God, and show us just what Scriptures there are that testify about you’” – they are ashamed and remain silent. [Then we continue:] “Although you may not marry a wife without witnesses, or buy, or acquire property; although you neither receive an aśś nor possess a beast of burden unwitnessed; and although you do possess both wives and property and aśśes and so on through witnesses, yet it is only your faith and your scriptures that you hold unsubstantiated by witnesses. For he who handed this down to you has no warranty from any source, nor is there anyone known who testified about him before he came. On the contrary, he received it while he was asleep.” – St. John of Damascus

We might also recall that under Islamic law, in order for a woman to defend herself successfully against a charge of rape, she needs four witnesses; but matters involving eternal salvation require no witnesses at all, only “trust”.

 

[planten]

I don’t need to establish the prophethood of Jesus first. Jesus is God. He established the Catholic Church. Christianity and the Bible had already been in existence for hundreds of years before Muhammad came along. At the bottom of post #866 I posted a small list of some of the reasons how we how that Jesus and His message are from God - even if you don’t believe that He is God.

After Christianity had already been established - Muhammad comes along and says, No these scriptures are incorrect, the Jews and Christians have corrupted things, divorce is OK, polygamy is OK, you’re supposed to be praying 5 times a day and face this direction, if someone walks in front of you while you’re praying God won’t hear/recognize that prayer etc. I want to know what proof Muhammad gives that we should believe him. So far I haven’t seen anything other than ‘he was a nice guy and trustworthy in business’. I don’t think that cuts it as far as prophethood goes.

**Jay, that is no reason. If Muhammad came 600 years after Jesus, then Jesus also came 1400 years after Moses. Why was that necessary?? You have constantly avoided to tell “How was Jesus getting his messages from God?” That is the root of the problem.

You say Jesus is God. But do you know that he is also a prophet of God too? Do you deny that? And how did the two exist together?? Was Jesus God during the night and prophet during the day? Please explain.

Judaism was the real religion from God and was well established for 1400 years. What was the need of Jesus?? That is applying your own logic back on you.

He was a Jew. What do you say? Jesus never wanted to start a new religion.**

 

[jakasaki]

There was a movie a long time ago - “Star Trek, The Wrath of Khan” - where Kirk and a Klingon were fighting. The Klingon fell by a cliff and was hanging on by one hand on a rock.

Kirk tried to save a Klingon from falling of a cliff because the planet was going to explode.

As soon as the Klingon was in a “safe” position to grab Kirks ankle and drag him down the cliff him him, Kirk finally realized that this dude is going to take him down to his death as well no matter how kind Jim Kirk was towards saving the Klingon’s life.

Kirk got “ticked” off, and stomped on the Klingon’s face 5 times saying"

I’veeeeeeeeee hadddddddddddd enoughhhhhhhhhhhhh offffffffffff youuuuuuuuuu !!!

The last word the Klingon heard was youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu! !!!

This is how this thread makes me feel.

 

[sedonaman]

**Jay, that is no reason. If Muhammad came 600 years after Jesus, then Jesus also came 1400 years after Moses. Why was that necessary?? You have constantly avoided to tell “How was Jesus getting his messages from God?” That is the root of the problem.
**

No. The root of the problem is Mohammed because he offers no evidence that he is a prophet other than his own word. What kind of proof is that? Zero, nada, zip, zilch.

 

[Jay53]

**Jay, that is no reason. If Muhammad came 600 years after Jesus, then Jesus also came 1400 years after Moses. Why was that necessary?? You have constantly avoided to tell “How was Jesus getting his messages from God?” That is the root of the problem.

You say Jesus is God. But do you know that he is also a prophet of God too? Do you deny that? And how did the two exist together?? Was Jesus God during the night and prophet during the day? Please explain.

Judaism was the real religion from God and was well established for 1400 years. What was the need of Jesus?? That is applying your own logic back on you.

He was a Jew. What do you say? Jesus never wanted to start a new religion.**

:banghead: What does any of this have to do with how you know Muhammad is a prophet and that his revelations are from God and not demonic or man-made?

Please stay on topic.

 

[sedonaman]

…
What does any of this have to do with how you know Muhammad is a prophet and that his revelations are from God and not demonic or man-made?
…

If Judaism and Christianity had never existed, would Mohammed still be a prophet of Allah?

What do you Muslims say about that ?

 

[sedonaman]

**
…

If Muhammad came 600 years after Jesus, then Jesus also came 1400 years after Moses. Why was that necessary?? You have constantly avoided to tell “How was Jesus getting his messages from God?” That is the root of the problem.

You say Jesus is God. But do you know that he is also a prophet of God too? Do you deny that? And how did the two exist together?? Was Jesus God during the night and prophet during the day? Please explain.

Judaism was the real religion from God and was well established for 1400 years. What was the need of Jesus?? That is applying your own logic back on you.

He was a Jew. What do you say? Jesus never wanted to start a new religion.**

If Judaism and Christianity had never existed, would Mohammed still be a prophet of Allah?

What do you have say about that ?

 

[pjk123]

If Judaism and Christianity had never existed, would Mohammed still be a prophet of Allah?

What do you have say about that ?

It is wrong to associate islamic pagan moon god allah with Our Lord.

faithfreedom.org/Articles/skm30804.htm

Islam is not in league with Judaism or Christianity.It is not semitic in Origin.Instead ,Mohammad interacted Jewish Tribes and got interested in copying Ibrahim(Abraham) and other passages to koran from talmud.

False religion.fantasy of a wrong man.Islam should not be considered as a religion.it must be proclaimed a cult.
thereligionofpeace.com/Muhammad/myths-mu-home.htm

Islam is known as the second largest religion. The very fact that 1.2 billion people call themselves Muslims vests Islam with the mantel of legitimacy and confirms the claim that it is a religion. But is it?

   Can       1.2 billion people be wrong? Well, in logic we have something called       "*argumentum ad numerum*". It states that something is true       if a lot of people believe in it. But *argumentum ad numerum* is a       logical fallacy. Truth cannot be established by the consensus of the       majority. In fact many arguments have been proven to be false, even though       everyone in the world once accepted them as true. For example, not until a       few centuries ago everyone believed that the Earth is flat and is at       the centre of the universe. Despite that common belief both geocentricity       and the idea of the flat Earth were false. A false belief does not become       true even if everyone thinks they are true. 
   Therefore,       not only 1.2 billion people, but the entire mankind can be wrong. As       Bertrand Russell said: *�The fact that an opinion has been widely held       is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd; indeed in view of       the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more       likely to be foolish than sensible.�  * ([Source](http://www.geocities.com/gabrudos/quotesrussell.htm))

Read full article:
faithfreedom.org/oped/sina50218.htm

---

** Jihadist Forum Thread Discusses If and When One May Eat the Flesh of U.S. Soldiers**

*A recent thread on the Al-Falluja jihadist forum discussed the case of whether a Muslim who has nothing else to eat may kill an infidel in order to eat him. The discussion was prompted by a recently published book by Abu Muhammad Al-Maqdisi, one of the most influential jihadist sheikhs active today. *
The following is a summary of the discussion thread. (JTTM subscribers can read the full report at memrijttm.org/content/en/report.htm?report=3367&param=JT ; to subscribe to the JTTM, visit subscriptions.memri.org/content/en/member_registr_jttm.htm ).
"Is It Permitted To Eat The Flesh of American Soldiers?"
On June 13, 2009, a member of the Al-Falluja forum who uses the moniker “Al-Maqdisi’s Student” wrote a post based on this passage [in full report] titled “Is it permitted to eat the flesh of American soldiers? A quote from the illustrious Sheikh Al-Maqdisi, may Allah preserve him.” He began by recounting an exchange between the early Muslim commander Khalid b. Al-Walid and the Byzantine commander at the battle of Yarmuk (in the year 636 C.E.) The Byzantine commander said to Khalid that the Muslims had only gone out from their land due to hunger, and offered to buy them off. Khalid responded: “It was not hunger that drove us out of our land, as you say; we are a people who drink blood, and we know that there is no blood more delicious than Byzantine blood. That is why we came.”

“Al-Maqdisi’s Student” then cites the aforementioned passage from Al-Maqdisi’s *Beginner’s Guide *[in full report], and follows up with the words: “The mujahideen should inform their belligerent [infidel] and apostate enemies of this exceptional law so that they can bring it up and study it at their conferences on human rights, counterterrorism, and so on! Then they in turn can proclaim that our soldiers lick their lips [at the thought of] eating the flesh of their hamburger- and Pepsi-eating soldiers!”

"If We… Eat Americans, Let’s Make Them Into A Gunpowder-Flavored Kabsa With Some Hors D’oeuvres Made Of Apostates"
Most of the numerous responses to the post were off-topic. Some responses, however, did take up the flesh-eating issue. “Abu Hajir Al-Muqrin” wrote: “If we are forced to eat Americans, let’s make them into a gunpowder-flavored kabsa with some hors d’oeuvres made of apostates.”
“Muhammad Al-Baghdadi” wrote: "But the slaughtering needs to be according to the shari’a. He then wrote “perhaps this is the best way” above stills from the Nick Berg decapitation video.
“Al-Maqdisi’s Student” weighed in again towards the end of the thread and wrote: “A true story: a group of mujahideen from one of the brigades was in the mountains during the jihad against the Russians. One of them was sent off on a mission; he went and came back, but he couldn’t find any of the brothers. He saw a roasted calf leg that the brothers in the brigade left for him for dinner, and he ate of it until he was full. When he went back to the main camp, the brothers saw him and offered him dinner! He said: praise Allah, I already ate! They said: Where did you find dinner? He said: You left me roasted calf leg! They said: No, no, that wasn’t calf, that was the leg of a Russian infidel! He answered: No matter, it’s all Islamic slaughter! (smile)”

memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD242009

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

I suppose my arguments regarding Ishmael and the problems therein of the Koran’s use of him were OK, or not refutable? Or being ignored? I feel left out.

There was a movie a long time ago - “Star Trek, The Wrath of Khan” - where Kirk and a Klingon were fighting. The Klingon fell by a cliff and was hanging on by one hand on a rock.

Kirk tried to save a Klingon from falling of a cliff because the planet was going to explode.

As soon as the Klingon was in a “safe” position to grab Kirks ankle and drag him down the cliff him him, Kirk finally realized that this dude is going to take him down to his death as well no matter how kind Jim Kirk was towards saving the Klingon’s life.

Kirk got “ticked” off, and stomped on the Klingon’s face 5 times saying"

I’veeeeeeeeee hadddddddddddd enoughhhhhhhhhhhhh offffffffffff youuuuuuuuuu !!!

The last word the Klingon heard was youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu! !!!

This is how this thread makes me feel.

Oftentimes, when I’m holding a discussion on this forum, I begin to feel like I’m Paul in the synagogues of Corinth.

 

[planten]

:banghead: What does any of this have to do with how you know Muhammad is a prophet and that his revelations are from God and not demonic or man-made?

Please stay on topic.

**Jay, you were demonising Muhammad for coming 500 years after Jesus. I asked you about Jesus coming 1400 years after Moses. Why? And you are trying to wiggle out of your bad argument and you have no reply about Jesus coming after the well established religion i.e. Judaism… If Jesus can come 1400 years after his super Master Moses a.s. then Muhammad can also come after Jesus. It is exactly what you were talking about. You were using it to denounce Muhammad. Do you see that?

I simply rebutted your wrong thesis. You you bring some other proper excuse against Muhammad. Also do not forget to tell me “How was jesus getting messages from God who had sent him”. Was Jesus pre-programmed?? Was there any intermediary between God and Jesus?? Please tell.

**

 

[planten]

If Judaism and Christianity had never existed, would Mohammed still be a prophet of Allah?

What do you have say about that ?

sedonaman, We are Muslims. Your question has a BIG “IF”. We do not chase shadows.

 

[famdigy]

When did God ask Muhammad to proclaim the message publicly and how do you know it was God? That is my point. Muhammad is contradicting scriptures that were already established as being from God.

Most people who surrounded The Prophet (pbuh&hf) were neither Christian or Jewish and did not refer back to the previous books, for them the previous scriptures were inconsequential.

I don’t speak for ex-christians who convert to islam but there is no single evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the Bible is the word of God or that Jesus is god. The only thing we have to help us is our sense of reasoning and logic. From watching youtube videos of Muslim converts from Christianity I would guess that many of them questioned, and doubted their christian belief before leaving it. If they’ve doubted and left the faith, then they don’t share the same convictions about the scripture as you do. At this point it’s becomes a question of which faith has the most rational and convincing argument.

 

[Jay53]

**Jay, you were demonising Muhammad for coming 500 years after Jesus. I asked you about Jesus coming 1400 years after Moses. Why? And you are trying to wiggle out of your bad argument and you have no reply about Jesus coming after the well established religion i.e. Judaism… If Jesus can come 1400 years after his super Master Moses a.s. then Muhammad can also come after Jesus. It is exactly what you were talking about. You were using it to denounce Muhammad. Do you see that?

I simply rebutted your wrong thesis. You you bring some other proper excuse against Muhammad. Also do not forget to tell me “How was jesus getting messages from God who had sent him”. Was Jesus pre-programmed?? Was there any intermediary between God and Jesus?? Please tell.

**

How is asking how you know Muhammad and his revelations are from God denouncing or demonizing him? I simply asked a question which you haven’t answered. I was only pointing out the time frame to show that Christianity/Catholicism was already being practiced and had been verified to be from God. It doesn’t matter if Muhammad came 600 years later, 1000 years later or 10 years later. After Jesus established his church, Muhammad came and said ‘No, these scriptures are wrong etc.’. I just want to know how one can know that these contradictions are from God and not man-made or demonic in origin.

And what wrong thesis - WHAT are you talking about?

And Yes, Jesus was “pre-programmed”! He IS God. He was there in the beginning!!! See my first post in the Off Topic Thread.

 

[Jay53]

Most people who surrounded The Prophet (pbuh&hf) were neither Christian or Jewish and did not refer back to the previous books, for them the previous scriptures were inconsequential.

That’s why Muhammad was able to convince them - they did not have accurate knowledge of God’s Word. Muhammad was not able to convert faithful Christians.

I don’t speak for ex-christians who convert to islam but there is no single evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the Bible is the word of God or that Jesus is god. The only thing we have to help us is our sense of reasoning and logic. From watching youtube videos of Muslim converts from Christianity I would guess that many of them questioned, and doubted their christian belief before leaving it. If they’ve doubted and left the faith, then they don’t share the same convictions about the scripture as you do. At this point it’s becomes a question of which faith has the most rational and convincing argument.

I don’t think having faith is based on the “most rational and convincing argument”. I just don’t think God came up with “arguments” to try and convince us to follow Him and His Word. He gave us His Word and He gave us free will to follow it or not. Perhaps I’m not understanding your thoughts on this.

I also don’t think that there is any evidence to prove that the Quran is from God. That’s part of what I am asking - how/why do Muslims believe Muhammad’s contradictions of previous scriptures are actually from God? Personally, I think the fact that the Quran controls every aspect of a person’s life, i.e what direction to face when praying, what hand to wipe yourself with when you go to the bathroom, rules for women during menstruation, etc. are not from God because that circumvents the free will God gave us. While I believe God gave us guidelines of how to live our lives, I don’t believe He is concerned with such minutiae as is contained in Islam as to make up rules about it. I honestly believe that converts who are attracted to Islam are those who have the type of personality that needs to have such rigid rules to follow. That’s why Islam makes sense to them. They find comfort in that type of structure.

 

[sedonaman]

sedonaman, We are Muslims. Your question has a BIG “IF”. We do not chase shadows.

Translation: you don’t have a dualistic answer, the only kind you can address, and it is about Islam, not Christianity; it must be answered “yes” or “no”; it cannot be both at the same time. The question is not a “shadow”. It shows the inescapable dilemma in which Mohammed has placed himself. If you answered “yes”, then the next question is, “Why does Mohammed rely on Christianity and Judaism for validation, as he does?” If you answer “no”, then 1) you have “blasphemed” your “prophet”, and 2) you have admitted that Islam cannot stand on its own. Either answer shows that Islam should be rejected as a false ideology masquerading as a religion.

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

Most people who surrounded The Prophet (pbuh&hf) were neither Christian or Jewish and did not refer back to the previous books, for them the previous scriptures were inconsequential.

This is an issue I have brought up before: if the Koran is are revelation from God, why then did God and His believers change their method of revelation? The NT quotes the OT and uses it as its basis for belief. The early followers of Christ knew their Jewish scriptures. When we get to the Koran we find something entirely different - no direct citations, just vague references to various stories and name-dropping. Whoever wrote the Koran did not know their Judeo-Christian scripture, and the opinion of scriptural comparison from the early Muslims on seems to be, “Ignore your scripture, just take our word for it, it comes from God.”

As I told someone else in this thread, if God claims to have sent the Torat and Injil as revealed scripture, why then could He not quote it, nor could His followers quote it? Again, why this sudden change in the mode of revelation?

I don’t speak for ex-christians who convert to islam but there is no single evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the Bible is the word of God or that Jesus is god. The only thing we have to help us is our sense of reasoning and logic. From watching youtube videos of Muslim converts from Christianity I would guess that many of them questioned, and doubted their christian belief before leaving it. If they’ve doubted and left the faith, then they don’t share the same convictions about the scripture as you do. At this point it’s becomes a question of which faith has the most rational and convincing argument.

I have listened to many former Christians give their reasons for converting - I have found a consistent trait they have is that they were not educated enough in Christianity to begin with. Even the famous ones who are now semi-celebrities (and seem to keep popping up on The Deen Show) are prime examples of this. Imagine if you came across a former Muslim who didn’t know what zakat was, couldn’t explain the Koranic teaching of prayer accurately, and didn’t know the difference between orthodox Muslims and the Ahmadi…and you’ll understand how I feel.

Also, I think I discussed before about the idea of “reason and logic” within religion. Yes, there’s a time and place for it, but let’s not forget that we are all believers in the supernatural, which goes beyond the natural and even rational understanding of things - therefore to say that is a kind of basis of our faith is a bit perplexing. God always spoke to His people on simple terms so that they might understand, hence why Christ spoke in parables and the apostles addressed the Church as their spiritual children. Human “reasoning and logic” can only understand the world around it to a point - after that, it must be replaced by faith in and the grace of God, which goes beyond reasoning and logic.

I would further argue that the “logic” found in the Koran, Islamic apologetics, and some of this thread, seems to be of a circular nature: anything that disagrees with the Koran, even if it came before, is considered false based on the testimony of one man who told his followers to consider what came before to be irrelevant. This is how groups like the Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormonism argue, and it is not good argumentation.

 

[planten]

Translation: you don’t have a dualistic answer, the only kind you can address, and it is about Islam, not Christianity; it must be answered “yes” or “no”; it cannot be both at the same time.

When your Jesus can have double or multiple roles, i am tied down because that is a great fallacy. Give one role to Jesus of man or god and you will have no ground to stand upon. You are having more than two roles for Jesus at same time.

The question is not a “shadow”. It shows the inescapable dilemma in which Mohammed has placed himself. If you answered “yes”, then the next question is, “Why does Mohammed rely on Christianity and Judaism for validation, as he does?”

**You seem to be misinformed. You are accusing Muhammad for the same thing that you people are doing for Jesus. You are taking support from the bibleOT which does not belong to you. You are always proving the truth of jesus by the bibleOT. Why?

Muhammad did not take any support from BibleNT or OT. If he was mentioned in the bibles then it was giving some authenticity to the bibles that they are true. The bibles were taking support from Muhammad**.

If you answer “no”, then 1) you have “blasphemed” your “prophet”, and 2) you have admitted that Islam cannot stand on its own. Either answer shows that Islam should be rejected as a false ideology masquerading as a religion.

**The truth of our prophet does not depend on the unreliable books which you have. It is far superior to your man made books. You admit your self that Jesus did not give any bible. Your bible was written by some men from their mind (which you call inspiration). Inspiration is useless. All the novel writers write their books by inspiration. So your bible is an autobiography of Jesus only written by some writers. You have admitted that it is not the word of God.

Quran is independent and it does not need any crutches for support. It stands on its own and mostly explains (interprets) itself without any help from outside agencies… The prophet was having revelation from God care of the angel. There were many serious topics. The reference to the christianity in Quran was very small.

It was necessary that our prophet who is the last law bearing prophet, should address and help the christians too. The christians had suffered much for about 300 years and passed lot of time in distress in the caves. During that long time (325 years),they lost the real message of Jesus.

Prophet Muhammad had to address the christians and he had to introduce himself to them and he had to inform the christians that his mission was foretold by Jesus. Unfortunately, you people have changed the text of your books and you have put a blanket over all the truth about Muhammad in the bible.

You have still not told me “How was Jesus being guided.How he was getting messages from his God.” You had written that Jesus was programmed. I cannot believe that Jesus was a robot. You are denying that Jesus was getting guidance from God. that is bad.**

 

[Jay53]

When your Jesus can have double or multiple roles, i am tied down because that is a great fallacy. Give one role to Jesus of man or god and you will have no ground to stand upon. You are having more than two roles for Jesus at same time.

**You seem to be misinformed. You are accusing Muhammad for the same thing that you people are doing for Jesus. You are taking support from the bibleOT which does not belong to you. You are always proving the truth of jesus by the bibleOT. Why?

Muhammad did not take any support from BibleNT or OT. If he was mentioned in the bibles then it was giving some authenticity to the bibles that they are true. The bibles were taking support from Muhammad**.

**The truth of our prophet does not depend on the unreliable books which you have. It is far superior to your man made books. You admit your self that Jesus did not give any bible. Your bible was written by some men from their mind (which you call inspiration). Inspiration is useless. All the novel writers write their books by inspiration. So your bible is an autobiography of Jesus only written by some writers. You have admitted that it is not the word of God.

Quran is independent and it does not need any crutches for support. It stands on its own and mostly explains (interprets) itself without any help from outside agencies… The prophet was having revelation from God care of the angel. There were many serious topics. The reference to the christianity in Quran was very small.

It was necessary that our prophet who is the last law bearing prophet, should address and help the christians too. The christians had suffered much for about 300 years and passed lot of time in distress in the caves. During that long time (325 years),they lost the real message of Jesus.

Prophet Muhammad had to address the christians and he had to introduce himself to them and he had to inform the christians that his mission was foretold by Jesus. Unfortunately, you people have changed the text of your books and you have put a blanket over all the truth about Muhammad in the bible.

You have still not told me “How was Jesus being guided.How he was getting messages from his God.” You had written that Jesus was programmed. I cannot believe that Jesus was a robot. You are denying that Jesus was getting guidance from God. that is bad.**

:hypno:

Planten, there are just some days that you are soooo “out there” that I don’t even know how to respond to you.

I asked what should have been a relatively simple question and you have rambled on about I don’t even know what - Christians being distressed in caves and robots and …

This one is so bad I don’t think it even warrants responding to in my Off Topic thread.

 

[sedonaman]

**
When your Jesus can have double or multiple roles, i am tied down because that is a great fallacy. Give one role to Jesus of man or god and you will have no ground to stand upon. You are having more than two roles for Jesus at same time.
**

In the hypothetical situation posed by my question, “If Judaism and Christianity had never existed, would Mohammed still be a prophet of Allah?”, Jesus would never have started Christianity, and Christians therefore wouldn’t exist either. Therefore, what Christians believe about Jesus is irrelevant to the question.

**You seem to be misinformed. You are accusing Muhammad for the same thing that you people are doing for Jesus.
**

You are the one misinformed. Someone told you that Mohammed was a prophet of Allah when actually, Mohammed was nothing more than a prophet of himself. My question does not accuse Mohammed of anything. It merely asks if Judaism and Christianity had never existed, would Muslims still claim Mohammed to be a prophet of Allah?

**
Muhammad did not take any support from BibleNT or OT. …
**

Then why does Islam claim to be an Abrahamic religion? Why are these verses in the Qur’an, verses that verify the OT prophets, among them Abraham, Moses, Noah, and Jesus?
Koran, p. 227, 20:132, 2nd Para.
Koran, p. 126, 7:199, 3rd Para. – 4th Para.
Koran, p. 174, 12:111, 2nd Para.
Koran, p. 18, 2:85, 4th Para.
Koran, p. 37, 2:250, 3rd Para.
Koran, p. 42, 2:283, 4th Para.
Koran, p. 50, 3:83, 1st Para. – 3rd Para.
Koran, p. 58, 3:183, 1st Para. – 2nd Para.
Koran, p. 77, 4:163, 1st Para.
Koran, p. 75, 4:136, 1st Para.
Koran, p. 76, 4:147, 3rd Para. – 4th Para.
Koran, p. 88, 5:75, 1st Para.
Koran, p. 91, 5:106, 2nd Para. – 5:110, 1st Para.
Koran, p. 96, 6:48, 1st Para. – p. 97, 6:48, 1st Para.
Koran, p. 100, 6:80, 3rd Para. – 6:91, 1st Para.
Koran, p. 107, 6:153, 2nd Para. – 6:157, 1st Para.
Koran, p. 111, 7:34, 2nd Para.
Koran, p. 114, 7:59, 4th Para.
Koran, p. 117, 7:96, 5th Para. – 6th Para.
Koran, p. 131, 8:51, 2nd Para. – 4th Para.
Koran, p. 153, 10:68, 1st Para. – 4th Para.
And Mohammed claims to be the last in the line of these prophets. Why does he do this if he “did not take any support from BibleNT or OT”?

The rest of what you wrote is nonsense just like most of your posts. The fact is that Mohammed was a warlord who realized he could get more booty with a smile, a kind word, and a sword than he could with just a smile and a kind word. No different from any other warlord.*