Questions for Muslims posting here

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**Kristin you are mistaken to say that Allah doesn’t know what HE is talking about.

All things were created from water. Even in the cosmos, water preceded (so I was told). Humans~water, mud (earth). Organisms~water. (sperm/water) So it is up to you to disprove this claim of your Creator.

But I am not scientist ~ so take it up with one who is. No use in debatin those who are not unless you want to feel you have the need to feel superior.

americanrevert**
 
Americanrevert said:
**Kristin you are mistaken to say that Allah doesn’t know what HE is talking about.

All things were created from water. Even in the cosmos, water preceded (so I was told). Humans~water, mud (earth). Organisms~water. (sperm/water) So it is up to you to disprove this claim of your Creator.

But I am not scientist ~ so take it up with one who is. No use in debatin those who are not unless you want to feel you have the need to feel superior.

americanrevert**
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Then how can you say she is wrong when your no scientist?
Dont forget, we dont believe a word the quran says, we believe one thing about it though, its packed with lies! 😉
 
kristin2007 said:
Angelos,

Have you thought about writing a book debunking the scientific miracles (so-called) of the koran?

I am being serious. You would be doing a service to humanity and make money as well. Given your in-depth knowledge and the controversial nature of the issues you should have no difficulty getting a publisher.

Why not consult a few literary agents?
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😊 Thank you for your compliments.

I guess I could give my articles to a publisher or a Christian website (like answering-Islam) under a pseudo-name.

I shall consider that nice idea, thanks 😉
 
dolphinlove said:
I too think it would be a great idea, but we have to also think about the possible threat that would be put on his life.
If someone puts out a book debunking Islamic theories, they then get the fatwa issued against them.
This happened to salmon rushdie.
I would rather see Angelos safe than someone issue a death warrant out for his life, all because he releases a book that contains the truth.
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My dear dolphinlove, thanks for being so kind and prudent. I consider myself lucky because of having a friend like you :hug1:
 
Americanrevert wrote:

But I am not scientist ~ so take it up with one who is. No use in debatin those who are not

That is exactly my point.

Muslims are making scientific claims. Therefore you should be submitting to the peer review process.

Your failure to do so raises the suspicion that there is no substance to your claims of scientific pre-knowledge in the koran.

Dolphinlove,

Exactly!
 
Isa_Almisry said:
I am always amazed how, with all those scientists we are told Islam had (and it had a lot), who studied the Quran, and wrote volumes on the Quran and its meaning, somehow they managed to conceal and leave out all these scientific discoveries so long ago put in the Quran. If they did, maybe they would have something to publish in the peer viewed journals.
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😃 Indeed! Those Muslim scholars and their miraculous scripture had to wait long for the modern scientific discoveries.
😉
 
dolphinlove said:
Then how can you say she is wrong when your no scientist?
Dont forget, we dont believe a word the quran says, we believe one thing about it though, its packed with lies! 😉
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Now I can predict that we are going to have a new Muslim poster here soon who will claim to be a scientist 😃
 
LOL Angelos

You’re a prophet.

But you’re probably right on this one:) 🙂
 
Angelos said:
Now I can predict that we are going to have a new Muslim poster here soon who will claim to be a scientist 😃
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:rotfl:

I cant wait to see the name of the ‘scientist’
or maybe one of the ‘scientist’ will use one of his alias’ that he hasnt used in a while and say he is a ‘scientists’
 
Americanrevert said:
**Kristin you are mistaken to say that Allah doesn’t know what HE is talking about.

All things were created from water. Even in the cosmos, water preceded (so I was told). Humans~water, mud (earth). Organisms~water. (sperm/water) So it is up to you to disprove this claim of your Creator.

But I am not scientist ~ so take it up with one who is. No use in debatin those who are not unless you want to feel you have the need to feel superior.

americanrevert**
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planten said:
** I am posting (reminding) about my own post again. It appears that the scientist has run away.Scientist cannot face the truth which is described in the Quran and cannot try to investigate whether it is true or not.

Such beautiful knowledge in the Quran could not be less than a miracle. But christians do not believe in miracles. They deny the miracle ( promised sign) of Jesus that he was miraculously saved from the ignominus death on the cross. His enemies planned to kill Jesus on the cross.

Allah also planned to save Jesus from death on the cross and He did save him and brought Jesus down alive and Jesus was put in a spacius tomb (not really buried). That is a miracle for the sake of Jesus but christian do not admit it. They do not like it.

So why they will admit there is any miracle in the Quran? Please let us know what Science says about the creation of living things from water. The scientist should know it. **
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Thales of Miletus came up with the theory that everything came from water over a thousand years before the Quran was written.

And of course, since OBIVOUSLY, you have never read the Holy Bible:
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters…6 Then God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” 7 God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so. 8 God called the expanse heaven…9 Then God said, “Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so. 10 God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good…20 Then God said, “Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens.” 21 God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind; and God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.”
 
Americanrevert writes:

“Kristin you are mistaken to say that Allah doesn’t know what HE is talking about.”

I would never claim that God does not know what He is talking about.

But I reject your implied assertion that the koran is the word of God.

Angelos:

I think you can do better than a Christian website. If I were you I would try for a mainstream publisher.

Isa Almisry

Thales speculated that everything was made from water.

See:

britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/589798/Thales-of-Miletus

Over time there were many speculations about the nature of matter and what made living bodies different to dead matter. There is no evidence that the compilers of the koran did any better than chance in picking explanations that ultimately proved correct.

In fact I have found nothing in the koran that suggests any scientific pre-knowledge.

Unlike the Muslims here I am willing to have this put to the test through the usual peer review process.

They are too cowardly to accept the challenge.
 
**ANOTHER ISLAMIC HOAX: THE ROTATION OF THE EARTH IN THE KORAN!!! **

Dr. Halûk Nurbaki, a prominent Islamic commentator and writer, accomplishes the benevolent task of proclaiming to the entire world the amazing acknowledgement of the rotation of the earth by the Quran. While the wave of astonishment keeps surging through him, he presents the following verse from the Quran, contending that this miraculous verse points out two scientific facts, which were absolutely impossible to be known by basic human mind at the rise of Islam:

Surah 27:88
You see the mountains and think them jamid (lifeless, motionless); yet they progress, just as clouds progress. Such is the handiwork of God, who has disposed of everything in firmness. He is completely aware of all you do.

Nurbaki later proceeds to the detailed explanation of the mysterious verse quoted above and concludes:

this is a glorious verse through which the rotation of the earth is foretold, for the parallel drawn between clouds and mountains in the verse stipulates that mountains also move in a spatial direction and such a movement occur solely by the hinted motion of the earth.​

His statements finally end in the traditional and unsurprising praise of the Islamic scripture after making a comparison between the way people dealt with the state of the earth and the way Koran approached it:

And this, fourteen centuries ago, in an age when people had many strange notions about the world, and additionally without confusing those people in their elementary mentality and landing them in ruin. Here is the art and here, the miracle of the Koran
​

Unfortunately, this so-called mysterious verse of the Quran does not suffice to convince one to endorse the assertion that the rotation of the earth was actually implied through the supposed divine revelation more than a thousand years ago. This is primarily because the reading of some other Koran verses related to the state of the earth but increases doubts about the integrity of the Islamic sacred text and seems to support the anti-Islamic views and polemics attesting to its contradictory structure. Strikingly, the firmness of both the skies and the land is consolidated by the following Koran verse:

Surah 35:41
God holds the heavens and the earth, lest they move away; and if they moved, none would hold them after Him; surely He is Penitent, Forgiving.

Moreover, there are several verses in the Quran that repeatedly talk of mountains and mark the word “firm” as their preliminary qualifier:

Surah 31:10
He created the heavens without pillars that you can see, and He cast firm mountains in the earth, lest it should shake with you, and He spread in it all types of creatures.

Surah 79:32-33
And the mountains, he firmly fixed; all a provision for you and your cattle.

Surah 78: 6-7
“Have we not made the earth as a cradle, and the mountains as pegs?”

Surah 27:61
He who made the earth a resting place, and made amidst it rivers, and made for it firm mountains

Surah 15:19
And the earth, We have spread it out, and cast therein firm mountains, and caused to grow therein everything duly weighed

Surah 16:15
And He has cast firm mountains in the earth, lest it should shake with you, and rivers and paths, that you may find the way.
 
Despite all the Koran verses designating mountains as firm and motionless geological structures, some verses in the Quran use the word “motion” while talking of mountains, which can be regarded at first sight as the paramount example of Koran’s inconsistency. However, a meticulous analysis of such verses leads one to the plausible conclusion that all those verses refer to distant future and to a movement that will occur only at the end of the ages to signal the initiation of the utter destruction of the universe and final judgment:

Surah 81:1-3
When the sun is folded up, when the stars are dimmed, when the **mountains are set in motion **.

Surah 18:47
And on the day We shall move the mountains, and thou wilt see the earth coming forth, and that We have mustered them and have not left anyone of them behind.

** Surah 78:18-20**
The Day when the Trumpet is blown, and you shall come in companies, and the heaven is opened, and becomes gates, and the mountains are set in motion, and become a mirage.

Apparently, it is implicit in all these statements describing the time of the doom’s day that the Koran refutes any idea or proposition about the present movement of mountains or the rotation of the earth as it essentially confines the concept of a moving earth to the end of times, substituting that motion for the difference in the geological shape of the world. Thus, it is not difficult to infer that the movement of mountains occurring in the Koran is by no means regular and systematic unlike the rotation of the earth. Had the Koran really supported that scientific fact, it would not have made use of mountains as prevalent examples to distinguish the present and future state of our planet.

Likewise, another Koran verse supposes that mountains set in motion would surely be one of the greatest miracles performed to persuade the unbelievers to profess the glory of the Islamic revelation. This supposition, too, mirrors the Koran’s acknowledgement of the *impossibility *of moving mountains and consequently of the rotating earth:

Surah 13:31
And If there were a Reading (Qur’an) whereby the mountains were moved, or the earth were torn asunder, or the dead were spoken to, but to God belongs the Affair altogether. Have not the Believers yet known that if God willed, He would have guided men all together? But unbelievers – the shattering disaster shall not cease to afflict them or alight near their homes, for what they have worked, until God’s promise comes; surely God fails not the appointed time.
 
Angelos said:
😊 Thank you for your compliments.

I guess I could give my articles to a publisher or a Christian website (like answering-Islam) under a pseudo-name.

I shall consider that nice idea, thanks 😉
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Why not blog with me? I co-own and operate a Catholic blogging service and thinking of setting up a Catholic Apologetic online magazine.
 
If the Koran verse presented by Nurbaki as a source of wonder and a means of miracle is scrutinized in the light of the verses analyzed so far, the common claim that Islam’s holy book is aware of and foretells the rotation of the earth can be readily rebutted, and the last sentence of the so-called miraculous verse speeds up this process of refutation:

Surah 27:88
He is completely aware of all you do.

What this sentence firstly evokes in the reader is just the prospect of misplacement of a verse and deviation from the principle of relevance since the supposed rotation of the earth possesses no rational association with God’s awareness of human deeds.

In order to test the pertinence of this sentence to the rest of the verse, it is imperative that the verses preceding and ensuing the 88th verse be read so that the context can be clarified:

Surah 27:87
And on the day the Trumpet is blown, then whosoever is in the heavens and whosoever is in the earth shall be terrified, except whom God will; and all will come to Him utterly abject.

Surah 27:89
Whoso comes with a good deed shall have better than it, and they shall be secure from terror of that day.

Surah 27:90
And whoso comes with an evil deed, their faces shall be thrust into the Fire: `could you be recompensed but for what you have been doing?

Evidently, the verse held miraculous by Nurbaki (number 88) comes right after the verse relating the blowing of the trumpet, that is, the beginning of divine judgment on the last day. Similarly, it comes right before the verses indicating the divine punishment or reward that will await humans on the basis of their deeds. Strikingly, the last sentence of verse 88 possesses the same word “deed”, providing a perfect textual harmony with the ensuing verses. In short, a verse put forward by interpreters like Nurbaki as a revealer of scientific facts turns out to be a basic statement pertaining to the end of times!

Here is another verse in the Koran that is identical with 27/88 in context but with slight differences in formation:

Surah 20:105-108
And they ask thee concerning the mountains; say, `my Lord shall scatter them as ashes, and leave them a plain level, wherein thou wilt not see any curve, nor a dune.’ On that day they will follow the Summoner, who has no crookedness in him, and the voices will be hushed before the All-merciful, so that thou shalt not hear but a murmuring.

According to these verses, the only knowledge granted to the Muslims by the Creator about mountains is that their existence in the world will come to an end simultaneously with the gathering of the human race before God, who demonstrates his power by setting mountains in motion. Consequently, the verse number 88 of the 27th chapter is only one of the several verses in the Koran that associates the word “mountain” with the word “motion” so as to proclaim the might of the Creator on the Day of Judgment, with no hint of the rotation of the earth. Metaphorically speaking, what appears to move in the view of Nurbaki’s arguments is neither the mountains nor the earth as it is claimed, but a single Koran verse that departs from its context and causes the rotation of some ludicrous assumptions in Islamic circles.

Still, it must be born in mind that what instigates some Islamic scholars like Nurbaki to discover verses in the Koran that are compatible with scientific facts and help them to sound convincing is actually the misunderstanding of some rare examples of *odd grammatical usage *in the Islamic scripture. For example, the preliminary motive that enables Islamic interpreters to support their presumptions in the exposition of 27/88 is that the tense of the verse is simple present although it obviously gives an account of the things that will happen in the future. Rather interestingly, some translators of the Koran modify the tense of the verse in question to simple future in order to conform it to its context as well as hamper the prospect of misinterpretations. An Islamic website familiar with the problems of inaccurate translation presents an alternative reading:

Surah 27:88
And thou shall see the mountains, which thou guess to be fixed, passing by as the clouds pass - God’s handiwork who made everything perfect; He is surely aware of the things you do.

Furthermore, this sort of a modification in the tense of a sentence during a translation does not indicate the translators’ will to distort Islam’s sacred text, but their being aware of the fact that for some verses in the Koran the simple present tense is preferred to the future tense even though they are used to express the things to occur a considerably long lime later. The following verse exemplifies such preference:

Surah 39:75
And thou shall see the angels going about the Throne, celebrating the praise of their Lord; and it will be decided between them on truth, and it will be said, `praise be to God, the Lord of the world.

This verse is analogous to 27/88 not only in context, but also in the use of present tense as the marker of future incidents for the same verb “to see”. Certainly, this translation illustrates the replacement of present tense marker with the future marker “shall”, but in the original language the verse reads, “thou see…”.
 
cathopologist said:
Why not blog with me? I co-own and operate a Catholic blogging service and thinking of setting up a Catholic Apologetic online magazine.
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Very nice offer, thanks. Can you guarentee that Muslim fundamentalists will not blow up themselves on your blog or in the stores where your magazines are sold? 😃
 
Angelos said:
Very nice offer, thanks. Can you guarentee that Muslim fundamentalists will not blow up themselves on your blog or in the stores where your magazines are sold? 😃
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Oh, they wont. 😃 Promise. Send me an email and we’ll discuss things over. Have to go now. Smack them to smithereens! 👍
 
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