Quran 5:116

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planten said:
**swariffin, praying to some one is like beseeching and requesting that person to grant something. That is what should be done to God only. We pray to God only and not to any one else. But I can ask some living friend, like the Pope, to pray to God for somethign for me. Then he will also pray to God for the realisation of my wishes.

I do not know what you say in your prayers to Mary. If you tell me the exact words then I could give my comments more clearly about your communications**.
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To us, praying to God is communicating to God. Praying to Mary is communicating to Mary. Praying is communicating. Why you must insist your definition on us?
 
Sister Amy,we worship Jesus and it is clear.But the subject is,do we worship Mother Mary or not.So what is your problem?🙂 .Quran claims that we worship mother Mary as God.But what about Holy spirit?your Koran had to claim that we took Jesus and holy spirit as God,but Koran says that we took Jesus and Mary as God.:rolleyes: .May I know where is the holy spirit?Or allah thought that we do not believe holy spirit as God?Or Mary=Holy Spirit,like Jewish peoples’ son of God is Ezra(according to ,so called infallible Koran)?Ha ha ha.nice Joke.
 
morning_star777 said:
Sister Amy,we worship Jesus and it is clear.But the subject is,do we worship Mother Mary or not.So what is your problem?🙂 .Quran claims that we worship mother Mary as God.But what about Holy spirit?your Koran had to claim that we took Jesus and holy spirit as God,but Koran says that we took Jesus and Mary as God.:rolleyes: .May I know where is the holy spirit?Or allah thought that we do not believe holy spirit as God?Or Mary=holy spirit,Like Jewish people’ son of God is Ezra(according to Koran)?Ha ha ha.nice Joke.
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Muslims: The Catholic Church documents everything she teaches. For example, we have the Dogma of the Immaculate Conception, the encyclical Deus Caritas Est, and the Constitutions of the Catholic Church.

I ask you to show me in what Church document Christians are taught to worship Mary. Where dose it say - specifically - that Christians must worship Mary as a goddess?

Because if the Niocene Creed starts with “We believe in one God,” than Christians must really believe and worship only God. So what document of the Church contradicts the Creed?
 
Well this is interesting!

I found where Mohammed believed Christians worship Mary. Bold is my emphasis.
THE ORIGINAL SOURCES
OF THE QUR’AN
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CHAPTER IV.
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THE INFLUENCE OF CHRISTIANITY AND CHRISTIAN APOCRYPHAL BOOKS.
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WHEN Muhammad arose, Christianity had not obtained any very considerable hold upon the Arabs. “After five centuries of Christian evangelization, we can point to but a sprinkling here and there of Christian converts: the Banu Harith of Najran, the Banu Hanifah of Yamamah, some of the Banu Tai at Taimah, and hardly any more1.” In his youth, we are told, Muhammad heard the preaching of Quss, the Bishop of Najran, and he met many monks and saw much of professing Christians when he visited Syria as a trader before his assumption of the prophetic office. But what he saw and heard of the Church had little effect upon him for good. Nor need we wonder at this. “What Muhammad and his Khalifahs found in all directions whither their scimitars cut a path for them,” says Isaac Taylor2, speaking of a somewhat later period in words which nevertheless describe Muhammad’s early experience also, “was a superstition so abject, an idolatry so gross and shameless, church doctrines so arrogant, church practices so dissolute and so puerile, that the strong minded Arabians felt themselves inspired anew as God’s messengers to reprove the errors of the world, and authorized as God’s avengers to punish apostate Christendom.” The Greek monk who wrote the History of the Martyrdom of Athanasius the Persian, speaking of the sufferings inflicted on the people of Palestine when it was for a brief space in the hands of the Persians in Muhammad’s time, draws a fearful picture3 of the wickedness of the professing Christians there, and does not hesitate to say that it was for this reason that God gave them over to the cruelty of their Zoroastrian persecutors. In the Book of Revelation (ix. 20, 21) the prevalence of idol-worship and other sins such as those described by this monk is given as the reason why the Muhammadan power was to be permitted to oppress the Eastern Church. Speaking of the same time Mosheim says, “During4 this century true religion lay buried under a senseless mass of superstitions, and was unable to raise her head. The earlier Christians had worshipped only God and His Son; but those called Christians in this century worshipped the wood of a cross, the images of holy men, and bones of dubious origin. The early Christians placed heaven and hell before the view of men; these latter talked only of a certain fire prepared to purge away the imperfections of the soul. The former taught that Christ had made expiation for the sins of men by His death and blood; the latter seemed to inculcate that the gates of heaven would be closed against none who should enrich the clergy or the Church with their donations. The former were studious to maintain a holy simplicity and to follow a pure and chaste piety; the latter placed the substance of religion in external rites and bodily exercises.” The picture of Christianity which the Qur’an presents to us shows us what conception of it Muhammad had formed from his own limited experience. His knowledge of the Faith was at least powerfully affected by the teaching of the so-called “orthodox” party, who styled Mary “the Mother of God,” and, by the abuse of a term so easily misunderstood, opened the way for the worship of a Jewish maiden in place of God Most High. The effect of this misconception is clearly pointed out by Ibn Ishaq. In telling the story of the embassy sent by the Christians of Najran, who, he says, belonged to “the Emperor’s faith,” to Muhammad at Medina in A.D. 632, he tells us of the ambassadors that “Like5 all the Christians, they said, ‘Jesus is God, the Son of God, and the third of three.’ … They proved further that He is the third of three, namely God, Christ, and Mary.” Of course this is not a true account of the language used, but that it represents correctly what Muhammad understood to be the doctrine held by these Christians is clear from the following verses of the Qur’an: “Verily now they have blasphemed who say, ‘God is a third of three’” (Surah V., Al Maidah, 77): “And when God shall say, ‘O Jesus, Son of Mary, hast Thou said unto men, Take Me and My Mother as two Gods, beside God?’” (Surah V., 116). We can hardly wonder then that Muhammad rejected the Christianity thus presented to his notice. “Had he witnessed a purer exhibition of its rites and doctrines, and seen more of its reforming and regenerating influences, we cannot doubt that, in the sincerity of his early search after truth, he might readily have embraced and faithfully adhered to the faith of Jesus. Lamentable indeed is the reflection that so small a portion of the fair form of Christianity was disclosed by the ecclesiastics and monks of Syria, and that little how altered and distorted! Instead of the simple majesty of the Gospel — as a revelation of God reconciling mankind to Himself through His Son — the sacred dogma of the Trinity was forced upon the traveller6 with the misleading and offensive zeal of Eutychian and Jacobite partisanship, and the worship of Mary exhibited in so gross a form as to leave the impression upon the mind of Muhammad that she was held to be a goddess, if not the third Person and consort of the Deity. It must surely have been by such blasphemous extravagances that Muhammad was repelled from the true doctrine of Jesus as the Son of God, and led to regard Him only as ‘Jesus, son of Mary,’ the sole title by which He is spoken of in the Qur’an.”
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Source: answering-islam.org/Books/Tisdall/Sources/chapt4.htm#p138
 
Sister_Amy said:
Do you know anyone who worships Jesus?
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Yes. Specifically, me, my husband, my children, my father, my late mother and my sister.

I believe Jesus is the Son of God with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my strength. I will praise His name for all eternity. 🙂

But, none of us worship Mary which is included in that verse. It’s really OK that I don’t understand your explanations. I won’t lose any sleep over this. 😃 I honestly don’t think at this point, after reading this and many other forums here, that anyone will be able to provide any explanation to convince me that this verse is nothing more than an illustration of Muhammad’s ignorance about the Trinity. Perhaps I can’t expand my mind enough to understand, but that’s my opinion. 🙂
 
Sister_Amy said:
Please tell me the meaning of the word “disgard.”

Then you can look up Matthew 6:9 when Jesus tells people how to pray. Or more specifically, to whom. When he says ask, he clearly means ask of God, not asking dead people. I am saying my beliefs are the beliefs of Christ, my beliefs are according to his teachings. If you find them not to be so, my only argument is that you have simply misunderstood his teachings. 🤷

That’s a rock-solid cop-out if I ever heard one.
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Do you pray to God asking for anything in the hope he will give it to you?

Please answer that question directly or I may deem it a cop out.

The point I was making was off topic, Jesus does only talk about praying to the father. I don’t think he refutes praying to saints. To be fair many Catholics pray straight to God, others ask the saints for intercession.

You would have to explain why people who have prayed to the Saints for intercession recieved an answered prayer. I thought you answered that by saying that God predestines those kind of events by decree before even being born, suggesting that any ‘miracle’ is merely a coincidence. Are you still saying that and please give me a direct answer.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Jolly good. Thanks for proving the relevance of the ayah which titles this thread. 🙂
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ironically, he proved the ayah wrong. We do worship Jesus, we do not worship Mary. The author who put them on the same level was not all-knowing.
 
Eucharisted said:
Well this is interesting!

I found where Mohammed believed Christians worship Mary. Bold is my emphasis.

Source: answering-islam.org/Books/Tisdall/Sources/chapt4.htm#p138
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yes, even the commentators who tried to explain Muhammad’s “refutations” ended up proving that Muhammad was refuting strawmen and was limited by what he was hearing and seeing from heretics that is why orthodox Christianity was alien to him and all his so-called refutations were limited to his time and to whom he “thought” were orthodox Christians. chaos.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Please tell me the meaning of the word “disgard.”

Then you can look up Matthew 6:9 when Jesus tells people how to pray. Or more specifically, to whom. When he says ask, he clearly means ask of God, not asking dead people. I am saying my beliefs are the beliefs of Christ, my beliefs are according to his teachings. If you find them not to be so, my only argument is that you have simply misunderstood his teachings. 🤷

That’s a rock-solid cop-out if I ever heard one.
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Disgard is meant to be spelt as discard or as one poster put it disregard will also accurately describe what I was meant to say.

Your beliefs aren’t the beliefs of Christ, that’s a massive generalization and if it were the case you would be a Christian. At best you are selective with what you choose to believe and I’m still waiting for your answer to my previous post.
 
Re: original question:
I’m going to step in here without having read all the other replies. I’ve never read the Quran but when I read the verse, I interpret as God saying that Jesus never said those things. He’s saying not to put Jesus/Mary beside him. Muslims only worship God/Allah, not Jesus. Christians worship Jesus because we believe in the trinity. Muslims do not. They say their scripture is inspired, christians do not say the Quran is inspired. I think we would liken it to the Book of Mormon. Actually it is quite a similar story how Muhammed and Joseph SMith both claimed to have been visisted by and angel/beings, were given golden plates w/supposed writings that would become their scripture. Christians would either believe Mohammed and Joseph Smith were lying, or deceived by a demon.
 
Christ_Is_Life said:
Do you pray to God asking for anything in the hope he will give it to you?
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Absolutely.
The point I was making was off topic, Jesus does only talk about praying to the father. I don’t think he refutes praying to saints. To be fair many Catholics pray straight to God, others ask the saints for intercession.
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If Jesus didn’t teach you how to pray to saints, then who did? Or, not you, but those Catholics who ask saints for “intercession.” Why didn’t Jesus teach it? Rhetorical question.
You would have to explain why people who have prayed to the Saints for intercession recieved an answered prayer. I thought you answered that by saying that God predestines those kind of events by decree before even being born, suggesting that any ‘miracle’ is merely a coincidence. Are you still saying that and please give me a direct answer.
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I thought I did. I said that it’s God’s will to answer a person’s prayer or not, even if the person isn’t praying to Him exactly. God knew, before that person was born, what he would be praying for, and how. A person might pray, to a saint for instance, to become very wealthy. So God might allow that person to be wealthy. Is that a reward for praying, an answered prayer because the person is good? (I mean, who says God doesn’t answer the prayers of sinners?) God might allow that person to be wealthy, knowing that the person will squander his wealth. And then on the Day of Judgment God can ask him, I gave you all this wealth, that you wanted, and yet you did not use it to help anyone but yourself.

Didn’t Jesus say something about the rich and a camel and the eye of a needle?

We don’t always know what is a blessing in this life, and what is a trial.
 
mesl4 said:
I think we would liken it to the Book of Mormon. Actually it is quite a similar story how Muhammed and Joseph SMith both claimed to have been visisted by and angel/beings, were given golden plates w/supposed writings that would become their scripture. Christians would either believe Mohammed and Joseph Smith were lying, or deceived by a demon.
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Unless I got the wrong story, Mohammad never wrote anything down since he was illiterate. The Islamic foundational texts were written after his death. But we do have the main similarity between JS and Mohammad: Both claim to have received “the final word” from an angel, and there were no other witnesses to the events.

By contrast, the New Testament, except for the book of Luke, was written by eyewitnesses to Christ’s public life. Although Luke never met Christ in person, he knew Peter who was an eyewitness.
 
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