I
Isa_Almisry
Guest
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Unitarian acceptance is as valid as mormon baptism: 0
- Status
L
LittleDeb
Guest
I am a life long Catholic and I too, was confused by your posts. I have lots of family right around your age and all of them participated in youth group throughout high school. Also they were confirmed at 14, none were confirmed at 12. Maybe it is a Canadian thing? It did sound like you were saying that you began preparing at 12, so maybe I misread and you were confirmed at 14 too. Two years of prep for a major Sacrament is still the norm. But in the last 15 years or so the Bishops decided that in western culture many people are still too immature at 14 to be confirmed. They moved it to 16 in most western countries. Now they begin prep at 14. Young people may ask for an earlier sacrament if they can show exceptional knowledge and maturity. (Of course this only applies to Latin Catholics. Many Eastern Catholics confirm much younger.)
I do think you are misunderstanding what others have written here. I have never heard of no Catholic education in high school. I’m sorry that you missed out on it. I attended seminary a couple times with friends during high school. They were getting about the same education in a half hour of seminary 5 days a week that we were getting in one dose of 2 and a half hours on Sunday after Mass.
I have admitted many times that yes, in the 70s our catechism was terribly watered down, but never was it missing altogether. In checking your profile I see that your age puts you right in the middle of one of the toughest times to get a Catholic education outside of Catholic school. For that I am truly sorry. You are not alone in having left as a result of that short and painful era. My prayers are with you and some of my cousins who were affected negatively during that difficult time. Please be aware that the LDS church was going through a similar problem during a similar time. During that time people were leaving ALL churches in droves.
edit to add: I was also confirmed at 14 in 1985. It changed sometime in the late 80s, early 90s.
R
rmcmullan
Guest
Well, okay, maybe I do stand corrected then. That’s one of the reasons I post here is to learn. I’m pretty sure though that I was confirmed at 12. It was grade 7. As for instruction and preparation (for confirmation), I was not aware of any special preparation but since I was attending a Catholic school at the time, it might have been presented as part of the school circicullum and I wasn’t even aware of it.
There were no Catholic high schools where I lived and my local Catholic church did not offer any instruction outside of the mass. There was something called the CYL (Catholic Youth League) but it didn’t take off. My Mom went to CWL (Catholic Women’s League) but I dunno what that was about.
So as I understand it now, there’s a seminary offered to high school kids called CCD? And it meets daily throughout the school year? That’s a big change! And a mnost welcome one too. Kudos!
As for LDS sacrament meetings being mostly instruction: it’s true the speakers aren’t authoratative and they can vary wildly depending on who’s up there, from high council man to youth speaker, but it’s different from a mass. A mass is (you can correct me here if I worded it wrongly) a rite and re-enactment of the Last Supper. But the LDS sacrament meeting is not that. It’s mostly inspirational and instructional, based on talks the people invited to speak are given. Likewise the two meetings that follow.
Also, can you tell me a little more about the CYO?
There were no Catholic high schools where I lived and my local Catholic church did not offer any instruction outside of the mass. There was something called the CYL (Catholic Youth League) but it didn’t take off. My Mom went to CWL (Catholic Women’s League) but I dunno what that was about.
So as I understand it now, there’s a seminary offered to high school kids called CCD? And it meets daily throughout the school year? That’s a big change! And a mnost welcome one too. Kudos!
As for LDS sacrament meetings being mostly instruction: it’s true the speakers aren’t authoratative and they can vary wildly depending on who’s up there, from high council man to youth speaker, but it’s different from a mass. A mass is (you can correct me here if I worded it wrongly) a rite and re-enactment of the Last Supper. But the LDS sacrament meeting is not that. It’s mostly inspirational and instructional, based on talks the people invited to speak are given. Likewise the two meetings that follow.
Also, can you tell me a little more about the CYO?
S
Sixtus
Guest
P
Philothea53
Guest
Seminary in the Catholic Church is what men go through after receiving their college degree (usually in Philosophy or Theology) in preparation to be ordained to the Holy Priesthood. Seminary is fours years of intense education and training.
CCD (Confraternity of Christian Doctrine) is the formal name for what most call Catechism. Children who do not attend full-time Catholic school get their religious training by attending once a week either during the week after (regular) school or on Saturday mornings.
Children who attend Catholic School learn the same basic subjects as students in the public schools but IN ADDITION receive daily religion classes and at least weekly attendance at Mass (in addition to their Sunday obligation.)
The Catholic Mass is a re-presentation (not representation but presenting again) of the sacrifice of Christ at Calvary.
“At the Last Supper, on the night he was betrayed, our Savior instituted the Eucharistic Sacrifice of his Body and Blood. He did this in order to perpetuate the sacrifice of the cross throughout the centuries until he should come again, and so to entrust to his beloved spouse, the Church, a memorial of his death and resurrection: a sacrament of love, a sign of unity, a bond of charity, a paschal banquet in which Christ is consumed, the mind is filled with grace, and a pledge of future glory is given to us” (Sacrosanctum Concilium 47).
P
Philothea53
Guest
McMullen - if you would like to read more on what the Mass is, you can read directly from the Catholic Catechism here:
scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c1a3.htm#1367
Paragraph 1366 defines the Mass as a re-pesentation.
scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c1a3.htm#1367
Paragraph 1366 defines the Mass as a re-pesentation.
P
Philothea53
Guest
McMullen - here are the websites for the Catholic Youth Organization and the National Federation for Catholic Youth Ministry. There are links to other Catholic Youth sites at the NFCYM. I know they can’t give you the personal touch of someone directly involved but at least an overview of purpose, goals and activities.
cyo.on.ca/index.html
nfcym.org/
(Outside of Catechism classes, I remember Chi Rho - IIRC it was a club for teens in high school that attended Catechism classes - there was a dance every Sunday night at the Church hall. We looked forward to it all week. Wow, that was a l-o-n-g time ago! Haven’t thought about that in years
)
cyo.on.ca/index.html
nfcym.org/
(Outside of Catechism classes, I remember Chi Rho - IIRC it was a club for teens in high school that attended Catechism classes - there was a dance every Sunday night at the Church hall. We looked forward to it all week. Wow, that was a l-o-n-g time ago! Haven’t thought about that in years
)
L
LittleDeb
Guest
Sorry I wasn’t clearer on the first part. Catholics don’t have a “seminary program” in the high schools themselves especially since the term “seminary” means something very different to a Catholic. Religious education has changed in format many times throughout our very long history. In my parents’ youth (1950s) it was a once a week class after school for about 2 hours. (For my dad, in public school.) My mom went to Catholic school so of course she went every day. It was very similar to the classes taken during grades 1-8.
Then, sometime in the 60s-70s the CYO movement became popular in the US. It was more of a youth group setting for grades 9-12 that then separated into smaller classes (sometimes by grade level) for in depth discussions. I think it actually stands for “Catholic Youth Organization,” but we always jokingly called it “Catholics, Young and Old,” because it was frequently run by older Catholics who were young at heart. There was a short period during the 80s that my parish participated in a wildly unpopular movement called “Youth Alive” or YA. I have no idea where it came from or where it went.
Sometime in the early 90s “Life Teen” started to really take off. It is usually after a Mass on Sunday evening that is geared towards teens with more contemporary music and homilies directly related to them. The teens usually sit together during Mass with the option of sitting with family instead. It is about 2 hours long after an hour long Mass. They generally stay in one group together, but have small group sharing. It is geared to 9-12 with the youth preparing for Confirmation meeting on an additional night.
I will have to address your understanding of the Mass in another thread as I am already terribly off-topic now. I will say that you kind of get it depending on your definitions of some of your words.
Confirmation is often referred to as the “completion of baptism” or something to that effect. It is basically the moment a (Latin) Catholic says, “I believe this. I profess the promises made in my name at my baptism.” That as a Latin Catholic you went through it at 12 is a little scary to fathom. I had no idea who I was at 12!
G
Gerry_Hunter
Guest
R
Renton405
Guest
Its hard to say. I must say that the Mormons have been alot nicer and more respectful to our church than the protestants have. And at least Mormons know about the importance of authority in a church…While I do not believe that Native Americans are a lost tribe of Israel because of DNA results I still think the Book of Mormon can strengthen ones faith as an optional book and the Trinity is recognized as One(the 3 persons was something I believe was developed later in the LDS)… So far Ive been reading the BOM and am almost through and It has helped my faith. But I would never leave the Catholic Church…Personnaly, I don’t know why any Mormon would spend so much time obsessing about what the Catholic Church teaches, or believes. To them we’re the Whore of Babylon.
The BOM does talk aout a church that they call the great abomination, the harlot, the whore. WHich I might believe they have gotton from protestant connotattions. But I know the LDS dosen’t hold officially that the CC is the whore of babylon like some protestants do, and they respect our church alot more than most protestants, so in that way I respect them more …
po18guy
Well-known member
Praise God! I have encountered two recently, and a third began to ask a few questions.At times it was very worth it since I received several PM’s from doubting Mormons who were interested in Catholicism. I would like to think my posts helped guide them Home.
God is at work, revealing His truth to those mislead by the Mormon church. That’s why they are doubting. Why on earth would a woman desire to be Mormon? You can’t get into “highest” heaven without a man? As I said to the seeking heart of a young Mormon woman: “(after baptism) The only man you need to get into heaven is Jesus”. I will have to think about visiting that site myself-but they will shut you down if they detect that God is making inroads.Christ’s peace.
po18guy
Well-known member
You are not confused at all. You know who iz.Am I all alone in my confusion?
Christ’s Peace.
R
RebeccaJ
Guest
There is no such thing as a valid or invalid baptism for a UU. They are a come-as-you-are organization.
po18guy
Well-known member
That’s why they accept Mormon showers.
R
RebeccaJ
Guest
po18guy
Well-known member
Be EXTREMELY careful with such reading. It was specifically written to lead you away from the faith. It is information, not inspiration. Since the Catholic church has the fullness of truth, all other spiritual reading is either diluted or polluted. I want nothing of either. Full strength Jesus for me.
Christ’s peace be with you.
R
RebeccaJ
Guest
hmmmm, a few points… it is true that the Godhead morphed over time in Mormonism. However, you will never find a true believing mormon that would believe this, let alone admit it.
The mormon church absolutely taught that the great abomination, the harlot, the whore is the Roman Catholic church. I was taught this repeatedly in mormon religious education courses. Today it is no longer taught, and people who learned about mormonism post-1980 will vehemently deny that this was ever believed. But I know what I was taught.
The early mormon leaders have a lot of protestant borrowings in their speeches. Some have even quoted Martin Luther directly, with admiration.
Mormons believe the BoM is a direct revelation from God, so any idea that “they” borrowed from protestant anything is just not something that mormon would ever consider. They believe EVERYTHING that is in the BoM to have come straight from God.
That being said, the BoM is supposedly a record that was written in the ancient Americas. How do you suppose such protestant ideas wound up in a record that is purported to have been written on a different continent than the protestant movement? Not to mention 100s of years before it occurred?
J
jmcrae
Guest
Perhaps so - the custom here in Calgary is to begin preparation for Confirmation in the sixth grade, which is around age 11 or 12.
Most Confirmation programs here in the city run for about six weeks - in some parishes, they do run longer than that - I know of one that goes from January until May, and then from September to mid-October, but that’s the longest one I know of. The kids who complete that program normally start in the sixth grade and finish in the seventh grade - it’s unusual to be any older than that, and it would certainly be unusual to be 18 years old - I think if they have not been Confirmed by age 16, they are sent to RCIA, and treated as uncatechized adults.
- Status