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Brad
Guest
Thank God for him - a real Bishop - I love em! Seems like more and more are coming - it’s just been a long 30 years and probably 10-20 more.
RE: Gay couple - Diocese of Orange(Bishop Brown) rejects oath request
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bones_IV
Guest
You may be right Brad. One priest in a local parish of mine critized homosexuality and a woman who happened to be in a homosexual relationship called him a hypocrite! And was in church right in front of everyone after mass was over!
Padre Pio “The Rosary is the weapon.”
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puzzleannie
Guest
are the parents in this Catholic school willing to sign such an oath, affirming that they are not contracepting, are married in the Church, are not cheating on their taxes, are paying their employees a living wage, are reporting wages paid to household help and paying social security tax, are obeying the precepts of the church including financially supporting its activities, are not stealing paperclips and toilet paper from their workplace, did not fornicate by living together before marriage, do not view pornography–if all those parents are able to take that oath in conscience then they have all reached a state of moral perfection, which means they are all dead and in heaven.
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puzzleannie
Guest
the bishop has already stated he assents to papal teaching on this issue. There is no Vatican teaching that says children of gay couples may not attend Catholic school, so what dissent are you referring to? Personally I would withdraw my child from Catholic school if I found the parents were so unchristian as to deny the child the right to a moral education on the grounds that the parents are not conforming their lives to Church teaching on morality.
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GloriaPatri4
Guest
Another good holy bishop
****Bishop of Fargo for marriage
Bishop Sam Aquila of Fargo, North Dakota, is ordering his priests to preach on the sanctity of marriage. He’s also allowing petition-holders to gather signatures in churches for a state constitutional amendment.
“All Catholics have a moral obligation to defend marriage and oppose efforts to legalize same-sex unions as equivalent to marriage,” he wrote. “I want you through your parishioners to obtain signatures in your parish or parishes for this initiative. I also ask that you preach on this matter during the next month in your parishes and present clearly the teaching of the Church to our people.”
Good to see another bishop taking a strong stand on this. I wonder if his diocese’s tax-exempt status will be threatened.
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Brad
Guest
If you were on the other 5-page thread that discussed this you would understand that I was a very lonely supporter of allowing the kids to attend the school while at the same time condemning the sins of the homosexual couple. I agreed with you that if the parents openly supported the couple as “heros”, my kids would be going to school somewhere else. At the same time, we must not ignore or fail to fight dissent from the Bishop, Pastor, principal, teachers etc.
In this specific case I have seen dissent in refusal to:
“publicly endorse Pope John Paul II’s edicts denouncing homosexual acts, same-sex marriage and gay-couple adoption”
and
teaching the kids in the school in question that certain immoral activities are not sins.
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Lisa4Catholics
Guest
You weren’t a lonely supporter of the kids staying what you experienced is the Queen of the thread twisters take.The parents don’t want the kids out they want the Priest and Principle to demand that the “fathers” of the children cease their propogation of the homosexual agenda at the school.God Bless
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puzzleannie
Guest
I have followed the other two acrimonious threads on this issue as well as reports on other sites, and have yet to see the bishop advocating that CAtholic schools should be teaching the homosexual acts are moral.
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
I haven’t seen the actual oath, but I don’t think the point is to call parents “perfect”, but rather to actually address what Catholicism is, and let people know what is expected of them and their children, as Catholic Christians.
So, if some parents are not validly married (not necessarily in the church, as we do recognize Protestant-Protestant marriages and the parents may be converts and not yet have convalidated their marriage), by their oath they are going to try to live the teaching. If they aren’t validly married, they will try to be so, and if not able, will live as brother/ sister.
If some parents are contracepting, they will repent (can’t change the past, but then again we aren’t talking of the past), and not contracept in future.
If some parents cheat on their taxes, they’ll make restitution and sin no more.
Etc., etc.
And, if they can’t make that choice, they won’t sign the oath and they won’t enroll the child in school to get a Catholic education that they themselves, by their freely chosen actions, fail to support in the home.
We have seen, I think, that a Catholic education is not to be considered a “given” or a “right”–that, in fact, it carries with it certain responsibilities. One of those responsibilities is that the education is not just given in school, but lived at home.
Putting a child in a position where s/he is taught the truth in school, but not at home, is wrong IMO, just as it is to have him/her taught the truth at home but not in school. Why has society changed so much in 50 years? Look at the incontrovertable fact that education has changed from the Judeo-Christian tradition that was found even in public schools to a secular humanism that is far removed from the education most parents remember. “Values based” teaching puts everything into a relativistic, situational perspective, with children encouraged to think “critically” and with no absolute criteria to ground themselves.
It’s a long way from: Is action X good or bad? to the current, “given action X, considering the situation, the participants, and your own personal bias or hangups, good–speaking, of course, for you personally?”
So, if some parents are not validly married (not necessarily in the church, as we do recognize Protestant-Protestant marriages and the parents may be converts and not yet have convalidated their marriage), by their oath they are going to try to live the teaching. If they aren’t validly married, they will try to be so, and if not able, will live as brother/ sister.
If some parents are contracepting, they will repent (can’t change the past, but then again we aren’t talking of the past), and not contracept in future.
If some parents cheat on their taxes, they’ll make restitution and sin no more.
Etc., etc.
And, if they can’t make that choice, they won’t sign the oath and they won’t enroll the child in school to get a Catholic education that they themselves, by their freely chosen actions, fail to support in the home.
We have seen, I think, that a Catholic education is not to be considered a “given” or a “right”–that, in fact, it carries with it certain responsibilities. One of those responsibilities is that the education is not just given in school, but lived at home.
Putting a child in a position where s/he is taught the truth in school, but not at home, is wrong IMO, just as it is to have him/her taught the truth at home but not in school. Why has society changed so much in 50 years? Look at the incontrovertable fact that education has changed from the Judeo-Christian tradition that was found even in public schools to a secular humanism that is far removed from the education most parents remember. “Values based” teaching puts everything into a relativistic, situational perspective, with children encouraged to think “critically” and with no absolute criteria to ground themselves.
It’s a long way from: Is action X good or bad? to the current, “given action X, considering the situation, the participants, and your own personal bias or hangups, good–speaking, of course, for you personally?”
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Brad
Guest
We could get into a long discussion on this but I’d rather not in my limited time. I’d just refer to the previous thread. I disagreed with the approach, not the quest for orthodoxy.
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Brad
Guest
I don’t think there was too much acrimony going on. But, that aside, the issues that should be adressed are (again):
- Bishop’s refusal to have anyone in his diocese sign an oath of adherence to Magisterial teaching on the topic
- School’s teaching of immoral acts (including other sexual sins besides homosexuality) as not sinful
- School’s allowance of a homosexual “parent” to be in a supervisory/teaching/monitoring position over other children at the school.
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condan
Guest
Yeah, stealing paper clips and fornicating are moral equivalents.
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TPJCatholic
Guest
Let’s just hope that the other parents will yank their children from the school. There is really no reason to pay for a Catholic education if the school and parish are going to spit on the faith. If this happened at my son’s Catholic school, I’d yank him from that school–shutting down the school is much better then approving mortal sin.
In this very confused culture, there really is only one way for faithful Catholics (that means people who accept and follow all teachings of the faith) to respond to this sort of mess, and that is for them to only pratice their faith in parishes/churches/schools that also are faithful to the faith. If faithful Catholics do that, many dissenting parishes/churches/schools will be forced to close their doors as result of the drop of funds.
Since we have “some” Bishops and “some” Priests who refuse to defend the faith–faithful Catholics can either look the other way (thereby giving approval of the sin) or they can walk to a truly faithful Church and Parish.
I have had to do this myself.
In this very confused culture, there really is only one way for faithful Catholics (that means people who accept and follow all teachings of the faith) to respond to this sort of mess, and that is for them to only pratice their faith in parishes/churches/schools that also are faithful to the faith. If faithful Catholics do that, many dissenting parishes/churches/schools will be forced to close their doors as result of the drop of funds.
Since we have “some” Bishops and “some” Priests who refuse to defend the faith–faithful Catholics can either look the other way (thereby giving approval of the sin) or they can walk to a truly faithful Church and Parish.
I have had to do this myself.
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katherine2
Guest
Bishop Blair is a most wonderful pastor who has done more to empower and involve the laity in the administration of the diocese than almost any other bishop. The Diocese of Toledo has a Court of Equity, with 9 laypersons and two clergy who have jurisdiction and authority to ajudicate any disputes concerning diocesan actions. He quickly appointed a Lay Investagtory Commission to look at charges of child abuse. The Bishop in a noted Ecumenist and a supporter of a greater role for women in the life of the Church. he has a laywomen as a full member of the Bishop’s Cabinet and laypeople in many other positions of responsibilty in the diocese. He is also a strong supporter of more federal assitance for low income housing.
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miguel
Guest
But I doubt he’ll be ordaining any women soon. Not that he could even if he wanted to.
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TPJCatholic
Guest
Interesting.
90-95% of all Catechists are women!
Most DRE’s are women.
Most sacramental coordinators are women.
Most Liturgical directors are women.
A majority of school principals are women.
Girls now comprise a significant percent of altar server roles.
The majority of parish bound lay ministries are run by women.
Choirs have a majority of women and are quite often lead by women.
Readers are often women.
Parish managers are often women.
College professorships have a signicant number of women.
The UCCB now has a significant number of women in lower and upper positions.
The head of the council on sex abuse crisis is a woman.
The Vatican has now placed women in roles of authority.
on
and
on
and
on
The, of course, the most Holy person to ever live, other then Jesus…was…you guessed it a WOMAN.
The one person the Church reveres the most after Christ…is…
a WOMAN!
Sure–women have no role in the Church.
95% of all critical lay roles in parish offices are women
90-95% of all Catechists are women!
Most DRE’s are women.
Most sacramental coordinators are women.
Most Liturgical directors are women.
A majority of school principals are women.
Girls now comprise a significant percent of altar server roles.
The majority of parish bound lay ministries are run by women.
Choirs have a majority of women and are quite often lead by women.
Readers are often women.
Parish managers are often women.
College professorships have a signicant number of women.
The UCCB now has a significant number of women in lower and upper positions.
The head of the council on sex abuse crisis is a woman.
The Vatican has now placed women in roles of authority.
on
and
on
and
on
The, of course, the most Holy person to ever live, other then Jesus…was…you guessed it a WOMAN.
The one person the Church reveres the most after Christ…is…
a WOMAN!
Sure–women have no role in the Church.
95% of all critical lay roles in parish offices are women
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
You know, I read recently that one of the bishops out on the West Coast has called for anyone involved in teaching or catechesis–from RCIA people to DREs on down–to sign a document affirming their beliefs in authentic Church teaching.
Here’s a link–it was the bishop of Baker, Oregon.
dioceseofbaker.org/giving_testimon_to_the_truth.htm
Here’s a link–it was the bishop of Baker, Oregon.
dioceseofbaker.org/giving_testimon_to_the_truth.htm
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GloriaPatri4
Guest
Tantum ergo:
*** The Church requires the making of a Profession of Faith by various persons when they undertake specific duties related to Church administration and teaching. (cf. Canon 833) In the Diocese of Baker this has been expanded to include those who take on the ecclesial duties of Catechist, Liturgical Reader, Cantor, Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion and other Church positions which entail a presumption of orthodoxy.**
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GloriaPatri4
Guest
Tantum ergo:
Thank you for posting this!
Tantum ergo,
Thank you for posting this!
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jim_orr
Guest
That’s from a supposedly “daily communicant” who lectures everybody on not being charitable enough. Some example she is. If that is how she is after receiving Communion everyday for who knows how long, imagine what she must have been like before!sweetheart, how are you going to complain to the pope about two guys who are not straight when you can’t even spell it correctly?
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