Refuting Jewish objections to Jesus as the Messiah

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saylo said:
Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit. Had He been conceived by St. Joseph then God is nowhere to be found.
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Are you trying to put a scientific spin to the account?

Any prize for guessing the source of Jesus’ Y chromosomes?
 
I believe Jesus is our Messiah!

God is the creator of all things seen and not seen is he not?

God did he not create Adam without woman?

Did God not create woman from man–Adam?

Therefore God is “Our Father” and God is “Our Mother”, don’t you think?

Did God not tell us in Heaven there is no Jew, Greek, man or woman?

Does this not help in the “refuting of Jewish objections of Jesus as the Messiah”?

There is only “ONE” God who created all, right?

Worship God only and put no other God’s before him! God Bless
 
Icemoon said:
Are you trying to put a scientific spin to the account?

Any prize for guessing the source of Jesus’ Y chromosomes?
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That is not true is not Joseph created by God?
Worship God–God Bless
 
Wasn"t Joshua the son of Aaron? Or was Joshua the son of Moses?
Just asking?

Joshua was the son of Nun Ex 33:11
 
While a point of contention may very well be the lineage, of which it has already been pointed out that no such claim can be verified today, Chabad Lubavitch points to Dt 30 as unfulfilled prophecy.
 
Layp3rs0n said:
Joseph could never pass on by adoption that which he doesn’t have. Because Joseph descended from Jeconiah (Matthew 1:11) he fell under the curse of that king that none of his descendants could ever sit as king upon the throne of David. (Jeremiah 22:30; 36:30)

Could someone PLEASE refute the above? I am terribly ashamed of faith being shaken so easily. I checked the above verses. It seems to contradict. But can’t can it? God preserve my faith!
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That is easy to refute. Jesus never sat on the throne of David, which would be a political office. He is the King of Kings, who knows no political boundary.
 
One must also take into consideration when we talk about ‘Jews’ in general that there are increasing numbers of Jewish converts to Catholicism. But they are generally quiet because unfortunately they run into much antagonism in our church. I was surprised to find comparatively large numbers of Hebrew Catholics among us. And they are some of the most well educated and loyal and kind Catholics I have ever met.
 
JimTx said:
That is easy to refute. Jesus never sat on the throne of David, which would be a political office. He is the King of Kings, who knows no political boundary.
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You are just making the issues murkier. How clear is the OT that Jews are to expect a King of Kings who knows no political boundary?

The issues are murky to begin with, as the messianic verses need not point to the futuristic messiah Jews are expecting. For example, Jews have good reasons to think the verses in Isaiah and Daniel are referring to events which are history.

Back to the point. IIRC, it can be argued that Jesus was descended from David via both his parents. So the lineage of Joseph may not be a big deal after all.
 
Bruno137 said:
One must also take into consideration when we talk about ‘Jews’ in general that there are increasing numbers of Jewish converts to Catholicism. But they are generally quiet because unfortunately they run into much antagonism in our church. I was surprised to find comparatively large numbers of Hebrew Catholics among us. And they are some of the most well educated and loyal and kind Catholics I have ever met.
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I think there are more Messianic Jews than Catholic Jews. 😃
 
I would use prophecy when trying to refute Jewish objections to Jesus being the Messiah. 🙂
 
DylanO said:
I’ve come across some Jewish objections to Jesus as the Messiah, so I was wondering if anyone could refute the arguments. Here are two links with these claims: ohr.edu/ask/ask00j.htm and http://jdstone.org/cr/files/whyyoushouldnotbelieveinjesus.html

Here is a quote from a forum that someone posted:
I would really appreciate if you could provide a refutation of these claims or direct me to someone who could.

Thanks.
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IN all honesty, I can’t. I have to admit that I find the Jewish objections to Jesus as the Messiah to be very convincing.
 
Icemoon said:
Wait a minute … was Moses the high priest?! :eek:
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So you are saying that just any Jacob, Peres or Job can institute priests to serve Yahweh God? …anyone from the twelve tribes could have instituted someone other Aaron and any tribe other than the tribe of Levi?
And in case anybody misunderstands your reply ('cos you did not clarify), the ‘god’ here refers to someone of power, not that Moses will be a god literally to the pharaoh.
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…did I say Moses was God?
However, despite your reasoning, I still cannot see how one thing leads to another. Jesus can be seen as a prophet just like Moses, but that’s it. Even using this criteria, the Jews were not expected to await a prophet that would turn out to be higher than Moses.
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The problem is that they did not want to see it; it’s pure and simple:

31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed him: If you continue in my word, you shall be my disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth: and the truth shall make you free. 33 They answered him: We are the seed of Abraham: and we have never been slaves to any man. How sayest thou: You shall be free? 34 Jesus answered them: Amen, amen, I say unto you that whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 35 Now the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the son abideth for ever. 36 If therefore the son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed. 37 I know that you are the children of Abraham: but you seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. 38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and you do the things that you have seen with your father. 39 They answered and said to him: Abraham is our father. Jesus saith them: If you be the children of Abraham, do the works of Abraham. 40 But now you seek to kill me, a man who have spoken the truth to you, which I have heard of God. This Abraham did not. 41 You do the works of your father. They said therefore to him: We are not born of fornication: we have one Father, even God. 42 Jesus therefore said to them: If God were your Father, you would indeed love me. For from God I proceeded and came. For I came not of myself: but he sent me. 43 Why do you not know my speech? Because you cannot hear my word. 44 You are of your father the devil: and the desires of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning: and he stood not in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof. 45 But if I say the truth, you believe me not. 46 Which of you shall convince me of sin? If I say the truth to you, why do you not believe me: 47 He that is of God heareth the words of God. Therefore you hear them not, because you are not of God. 48 The Jews therefore answered and said to him: Do not we say well that thou art a Samaritan and hast a devil? 49 Jesus answered: I have not a devil: but I honour my Father. And you have dishonoured me. 50 But I seek not my own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth. 51 Amen, amen, I say to you: If any man keep my word, he shall not see death for ever. 52 The Jews therefore said: Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets: and thou sayest: If any man keep my word, he shall not taste death for ever. 53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham who is dead? And the prophets are dead. Whom dost thou make thyself? 54 Jesus answered: If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father that glorifieth me, of whom you say that he is your God. 55 And you have not known him: but I know him. And if I shall say that I know him not, I shall be like to you, a liar. But I do know him and do keep his word. 56 Abraham your father rejoiced that he might see my day: he saw it and was glad. 57 The Jews therefore said to him: Thou art not yet fifty years old. And hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said to them: Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham was made, I AM. (St. John 8:31-58)
How are we going to see the connection using a reasoning that is beyond human reason? Same for the pharisees as well.
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7 Moses was a hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, neither were his teeth moved. 8 And the children of Israel mourned for him in the plains of Moab thirty days: and the days of their mourning in which they mourned Moses were ended. 9 And Josue the son of Nun was filled with the spirit of wisdom, because Moses had laid his hands upon him. And the children of Israel obeyed him, and did as the Lord commanded Moses. 10 And there arose no more a prophet in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face, 11 In all the signs and wonders, which he sent by him, to do in the land of Egypt to Pharao, and to all his servants, and to his whole land, 12 And all the mighty hand, and great miracles, which Moses did before all Israel. (Deuteronomy 34:7-12–DRV)

Either we believe the whole body of the Holy Scriptures or we use our own reason to selectively accept those passages that we deem “just right” while rejecting everything else Yahweh God tells us. (1 Corinthians 2:1-16)

Simplified to benefit the ’cos people: Moses attests that there would arise in Israel a Prophet like himself; Scriptures attest that no other prophet like Moses ever existed; the Pharasies and Sadducees (with other religious elite) asked Jesus if He was greater than Abraham, and the prophets (inclusive of Moses) and He reveals to them that He is the I AM (St. John 8:31-58; Ex 3:13-14).

You can chose to ignore Scripture, that is your prerogative.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Icemoon said:
Aren’t you contradicting yourself?

You said earlier:

The problem is that they did not want to accept it.

They said the words but did not believe.

They tested Him any and every way they could and they were left in awe of His powers and abilities.

The Old Testament says that the Messiah will come and free Israel from sin that the blind will see, that the lame would walk…
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Let’s try it again…

…me, with my limited knowledge of Judaism and the Jewish culture…
…they, with ingrained rejection of Christ (inclusive of any Scriptural passage that attest to Him)…
…me, without the New Testament to help them understand how the prophecies of Old Testament are revealed in the Fullness of Times…
…they, unwilling to accept any variation from their own multi-faceted system of belief–unless someone not as ignorant as I can help them…

Did I suggest that the Old Testament is not enough to help them see the Truth? No!

I have stated that they refuse the Truth.

That they want proof from the Old Testament.

That when the Old Testament brings them to Jesus they reject the Word of God and prefer their personal/group’s interpretation; an interpretation that forever denies Jesus and awaits a “futuristic messiah;” one conceived, at times, according to their own particular group’s definition.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
jcrichton said:
So you are saying that just any Jacob, Peres or Job can institute priests to serve Yahweh God? …anyone from the twelve tribes could have instituted someone other Aaron and any tribe other than the tribe of Levi?

I did not say that and you have shifted the goalpost. I merely asked when was Moses the High Priest.

And you have missed the point. Moses was acting under the instruction of God. So if God told any Jacob, Peres or Job, conceivably they could have done that as well, though they’d have much less credibility as the laws were already given at Sinai.
…did I say Moses was God?
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jcrichton said:
Simplified to benefit the ’cos people: Moses attests that there would arise in Israel a Prophet like himself; Scriptures attest that no other prophet like Moses ever existed; the Pharasies and Sadducees (with other religious elite) asked Jesus if He was greater than Abraham, and the prophets (inclusive of Moses) and He reveals to them that He is the I AM (St. John 8:31-58; Ex 3:13-14).

You can chose to ignore Scripture, that is your prerogative.
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I don’t get you.

According to what you wrote, didn’t Scripture contradict Moses, or vice versa?
  1. Moses attests there would arise in Israel a Prophet like himself.
  2. Scripture attest no other prophet like Moses ever existed.
  3. Jesus claimed He is the I AM. I take that to mean He is higher than Moses.
How can 1, 2 and 3 be true and referring to the same person?
 
Icemoon said:
You are entitled to your belief that Jesus did perform hundreds of such miracles. However, to the Jews, the authenticity of the accounts can be questioned. This is ok, as long as both sides agree to disagree.

It is good that you acknowledge the story of their forefathers performing miracles under the command of God, unfortunately you have injected your own worldview into it, framing the Jewish account into your worldview and consequently skewing the Jewish position.

Your example on Satan and his minions was uncalled for. Simply because Jews do not believe in Satan like Christians do. If you understand the Jewish position, then you’d agree their prophet/sage/rabbi have no need to command Satan. Is this a strawman again?
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…aparently you speak from personal knowledge of Judaism… I speak from relative ignorance since I know only what a few Jewish guys have revealed to me about their faith and culture.

…to have a skewed view of someone/people/nation would imply by necessity a need to debase or belittle that person/people/nation–I have no need. My operative command is Love not hate. However, my limited perspective and my passion for Christ may have led you to believe other wise.

You are free to chose to believe as you will; I have no control over how another person interprets/conceives my expressions.

However, you must agree that we are at opposite ends: you defend one position while completely rejecting/limiting the other (Old Testament is the Word of Yahweh God; New Testament a creation of Christians) and that further exchange will continue to be null as niether you nor I will surrender our positions.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
jcrichton said:
I have stated that they refuse the Truth.

That they want proof from the Old Testament.

That when the Old Testament brings them to Jesus they reject the Word of God and prefer their personal/group’s interpretation; an interpretation that forever denies Jesus and awaits a “futuristic messiah;” one conceived, at times, according to their own particular group’s definition.
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This is petitio principii at its worst, isn’t it?

Instead of seeking out the reasons why they reject your group interpretation of the Old Testament, you just made a sweeping conclusion that they reject the Word of God.

This is a serious allegation you know. How would you like if Moslems say the same thing to you?
 
treggs said:
The Jews have their own meaning for Messiah, to them it is the King of the Jews and as such Jesus could never be the Jewish Messiah, but the truth is he could be because he was born with a father and mother and never claimed otherwise, Jesus spent years in india before all his preaching stories and then when he was crucified he returned to India after he was dead according to us, Jesus was not made into the son of God until the bible was put together by a Pagan.

Religion is whats holding the world back and has always been peace’s worst enemy we must destroy religion to save the world, god will not help us
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…ever heard of the USSR? …well, they kicked God out and they made it into an utopia; Cuba–a mini-utopia!

…you could also check out the various regimes that reject God or twist everything to mean what they desire… they have no poverty, no crimes, no human slavery, not a single problem in the world!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
planter654 said:
Wasn"t Joshua the son of Aaron? Or was Joshua the son of Moses?
Just asking?
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Hi!

…neither, he was Moses’ assistant:

1 Now it came to pass after the death of Moses, the servant of the Lord, that the Lord spoke to Josue, the son of Nun, the minister of Moses, and said to him: 2 Moses my servant is dead: arise, and pass over this Jordan, thou and thy people with thee, into the land which I will give to the children of Israel. 3 I will deliver to you every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, as I have said to Moses. 4 From the desert, and from Libanus unto the great river Euphrates, all the land of the Hethites, unto the great sea toward the going down of the sun, shall be your border. 5 No man shall be able to resist you all the days of thy life: as I have been with Moses, so will I be with thee: I will not leave thee, nor forsake thee. (Joshua 1:1-5–DRV)

Maran atha!

Angel
 
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