Regarding if Jesus is God

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I will not quote you anything. You are the one that needs to prove what you claim, not just keep repeating that everyone else is wrong.
 
Yes, there is a type of subordination within the Trinity, based on procession. The Father, Son, and Spirit have the same Nature, and so they are co-equal as God. But the Son is entirely dependent on the Father for all that He is, and the Father is not dependent, since the Son proceeds from the Father, and the Father does not proceed. So there is a limited type of subordination in the Trinity. Similarly, the Spirit proceeds from Father and Son, and so He is dependant on the Father and Son for all that He is. So the idea is sound.

Tertullian: “Thus the Father is distinct from the Son, being greater than the Son, inasmuch as He who begets is one, and He who is begotten is another; He, too, who sends is one, and He who is sent is another….”

Irenaeus: “The Father is indeed above all, and He is the Head of Christ….”

[John]
{5:19} Then Jesus responded and said to them: "Amen, amen, I say to you, the Son is not able to do anything of himself, but only what he has seen the Father doing. For whatever he does, even this does the Son do, similarly.
 
I’ve flagged the thread. It’s not really a debate, it’s just our friend TheTrinitySaves being contrarian to anyone who responds to him. It’s probably better if we just back off and let the mods handle this.
 
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edward_george1 said:
I’ve flagged the thread. It’s not really a debate, it’s just our friend TheTrinitySaves being contrarian to anyone who responds to him. It’s probably better if we just back off and let the mods handle this.
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Only because you cannot respond to my evidence. Just because you disagree with something doesn’t make it a reportable offense
 
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church
The dogma of the Holy Trinity

[253] The Trinity is One . We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the “consubstantial Trinity”.83 The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: "The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e. by nature one God."84 In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), "Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature."85

[254] The divine persons are really distinct from one another . "God is one but not solitary."86 “Father”, “Son”, “Holy Spirit” are not simply names designating modalities of the divine being, for they are really distinct from one another: "He is not the Father who is the Son, nor is the Son he who is the Father, nor is the Holy Spirit he who is the Father or the Son."87 They are distinct from one another in their relations of origin: "It is the Father who generates, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds."88 The divine Unity is Triune.

[255] The divine persons are relative to one another . Because it does not divide the divine unity, the real distinction of the persons from one another resides solely in the relationships which relate them to one another: "In the relational names of the persons the Father is related to the Son, the Son to the Father, and the Holy Spirit to both. While they are called three persons in view of their relations, we believe in one nature or substance."89 Indeed "everything (in them) is one where there is no opposition of relationship."90 "Because of that unity the Father is wholly in the Son and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Son is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Son."91

[256] St. Gregory of Nazianzus, also called “the Theologian”, entrusts this summary of Trinitarian faith to the catechumens of Constantinople:

Above all guard for me this great deposit of faith for which I live and fight, which I want to take with me as a companion, and which makes me bear all evils and despise all pleasures: I mean the profession of faith in the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. I entrust it to you today. By it I am soon going to plunge you into water and raise you up from it. I give it to you as the companion and patron of your whole life. I give you but one divinity and power, existing one in three, and containing the three in a distinct way. Divinity without disparity of substance or nature, without superior degree that raises up or inferior degree that casts down. . . the infinite co-naturality of three infinites. Each person considered in himself is entirely God. . . the three considered together. . . I have not even begun to think of unity when the Trinity bathes me in its splendor. I have not even begun to think of the Trinity when unity grasps me. . .92
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TheTrinitySaves said:
Yes, there is a type of subordination within the Trinity, based on procession. The Father, Son, and Spirit have the same Nature, and so they are co-equal as God. But the Son is entirely dependent on the Father for all that He is, and the Father is not dependent, since the Son proceeds from the Father, and the Father does not proceed. So there is a limited type of subordination in the Trinity. Similarly, the Spirit proceeds from Father and Son, and so He is dependant on the Father and Son for all that He is. So the idea is sound.

Tertullian: “Thus the Father is distinct from the Son, being greater than the Son, inasmuch as He who begets is one, and He who is begotten is another; He, too, who sends is one, and He who is sent is another….”

Irenaeus: “The Father is indeed above all, and He is the Head of Christ….”

[John]
{5:19} Then Jesus responded and said to them: "Amen, amen, I say to you, the Son is not able to do anything of himself, but only what he has seen the Father doing. For whatever he does, even this does the Son do, similarly.
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Again, the Trinity is one Intellect, one Will, not three. The Father begets the Son, and the Spirit proceeds from both, but there is no submission of wills. The error is in thinking of human persons, you make the error of speaking of God as if he were three beings (even if you say he is not).
 
I have said nothing that is contrary to this teaching. nowhere does it say that the son is not obedient to the father
 
I haven’t bothered to engage you at all because I know whatever I say, you’ll find a reason to contradict. And all you’ve given evidence of is that you don’t understand the doctrine of the Trinity.
 
Wesrock said:
Again, the Trinity is one Intellect, one Will, not three. The Father begets the Son, and the Spirit proceeds from both, but there is no submission of wills. The error is in thinking of human persons, you make the error of speaking of God as if he were three beings (even if you say he is not).
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So the saints are wrong that I quoted? I have repeatedly said God is not three beings yet you continue to put words in my mouth and refute them as Hersey when I have argued nothing of the sort
 
TheTrinitySaves said:
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edward_george1:
I’ve flagged the thread. It’s not really a debate, it’s just our friend TheTrinitySaves being contrarian to anyone who responds to him. It’s probably better if we just back off and let the mods handle this.
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Only because you cannot respond to my evidence. Just because you disagree with something doesn’t make it a reportable offense
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Because you’re mixing up tthe theology of the Trinity with the economy of Christ’s natures.
 
Wesrock said:
Because you’re mixing up tthe theology of the Trinity with the economy of Christ’s natures.
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I have been quoting saints and respected church scholars and scripture. Can you respond to the evidence throughout this thread instead of just saying im wrong and a heretic
 
TheTrinitySaves said:
I have been quoting saints and respected church scholars and scripture. Can you respond to the evidence throughout this thread instead of just saying im wrong and a heretic
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Did you have any response to the Saint I quoted who also is considered one of the greatest scholars of the Church? And unlike Tertullian and St. Irenaeus, is a Doctor of the Church. Also, Tertullian is not a Saint. He later fell into the heresy of Montanism.
 
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Fauken said:
Did you have any response to the Saint I quoted who also is considered one of the greatest scholars of the Church?
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I agree with Thomas Aquinas and Athansanius that they are all co eternal and co equal and co divine. If you could point me to where they say prohibit saying Jesus was obedient to his Heavenly Father I would appreciate that as I could not find that
 
Fauken said:
Did you have any response to the Saint I quoted who also is considered one of the greatest scholars of the Church? And unlike Tertullian and St. Irenaeus, is a Doctor of the Church. Also, Tertullian is not a Saint. He later fell into the heresy of Montanism.
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Tertullian is still a greatly respected theologian in the church
 
TheTrinitySaves said:
Did you have any response to the Saint I quoted who also is considered one of the greatest scholars of the Church? And unlike Tertullian and St. Irenaeus, is a Doctor of the Church. Also, Tertullian is not a Saint. He later fell into the heresy of Montanism.
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Im sorry its 10 vs 1 so its impossible to respond to everything
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TheTrinitySaves said:
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Irishmom2:
You know, you just keep repeating the same thing. That is not a way to prove your point. But it is true, you do not understand the Trinity.
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Quote me scripture where the son disobeys the father or where he is permitted to do so.
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This misunderstands the essence and relations of God Himself, or otherwise confuses Christology with theology.
 
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