Religious affections and love for God

[MerickOWA]

The gospel of God’s grace is quite uniformed. Here are some sites uniting Biblical Christians.

alliancenet.org/

reformed.org/documents/index.html?mainframe=http://www.reformed.org/documents/cambridge.html

Where internet sites mentioned in the bible? Why should I accept their understanding of the truth? This isn’t just a rhetorical question, but an honest one. Before we can accept the bible as truth, someone must convince us of its truth. How do you convince someone in what the bible says and that your teaching on it is what it says. From an outsider’s perspective on Protestantism, there is no unity in the tens of thousands of denominations, all claiming their interpretations to be the BEST in 2000 years, when most of them can only agree on a few things, and never the same few things.

 

[Reformed]

You have indeed missed it. I cried me a river for all the pain and suffering I caused God. I have still not stopped saying sorry. I have turned away from my previous work, I have turned away from my lifestyle, I have turned away from my habits and personal practices. Im an empty vessel waiting to receive my baptism into the catholic church.

Thank you for your testimony and welcome to the family of God!

 

[Ag_not]

Thank you for your testimony and welcome to the family of God!

:grouphug:

 

[twb1621]

You have indeed missed it. I cried me a river for all the pain and suffering I caused God. I have still not stopped saying sorry. I have turned away from my previous work, I have turned away from my lifestyle, I have turned away from my habits and personal practices. Im an empty vessel waiting to receive my baptism into the catholic church.

reformed,
you’re not listening to her Reformed. Are You living by your anger? That is not compassion or humility or even trying to understand. Not responding to post 175 either I see?

 

[twb1621]

A Catholic who abandons his faith does so because the faith wont conform to his way of thinking. More is expected of those who are given more…

 

[guanophore]

Well, this is the Internet version of sharing of Christ and Him crucified on behalf of sinners. It is quite addicting too. I’ve been blessed to share Christ with people around the world through many Internet tools, such as Yahoo Chess and all religion websites. What’s the worst thing that can happen? All they can do is ban you from their sites for sharing Christ. It beats going door to door as a ministry. Copy and paste witnessing of our great God and savior is fun!

Well, Reformed, it is a shame that your motives for being here are not to learn about the Catholic faith. CAF is not a venue for you to proselytize Catholics. In fact, this is against the forum rules. We are here to give Catholic answers to persons who have a sincere inquiry into the Catholic faith.

The other forum rule that you regularly break is failing to respect our faith, even though you disagree with it. You are very disparaging and pejorative.

 This is an all Catholic Forum site.

There are plenty of non Catholics here. I’ve stated from the begining that I believe the official Roman Catholic gospel is a false gospel. But I believe that there is a remnant inside the Catholic Church in-spite of the official Roman Catholic gospel that is contrary to the Biblical gospel that saves sinners.

You are really in the wrong part of the forum. You need to be over in Apologetics. I think you would have a lot more success there than you do with these “bible studies” here in the Non-Catholic religions section.

I never leave the non-catholic religion section since I am a protestant.

This is an odd thing to say. Are you afraid of getting real Catholic answers?

 

[guanophore]

For the record… I never said that Catholics are not united to Christ.

Well, let us see what the record does show about what you have said:

I don't think you can make an accurate distinction between tradition and Sacred Tradition because you probably are unable to know the difference. The doctrine of Sacred Tradition is a man made idea to convince the laity to believe everything that Rome tells you to believe.  It is not good enough to say it's true because Rome tells you that it is true.  Trust in God through His Holy Scriptures.  Faith is based on biblical revelation and not sources that cannot be supplied when requested.

The gospel of God’s grace revealed in the Scripture alone is a different gospel than what is official taught by Catholic authority. This is the reason for the Protestant Reformation. We have two mutually exclusive gospels.

If you come to the Scriptures thinking that God teaches you through the Catholic Church as compared to the Scriptures as being authorative, you will be hardened to the truth which glorifies God and humbles mankind. If Scripture is received as authorative truth, then what is written would not allow you to live out your life as a Roman Catholic Christian. I really believe most Roman Catholics rather trust in what the Catholic Church teaches as compared to trusting in the Spirit to guide them in all truth through the Holy Scriptures.

Do you at least agree that the Protestant Reformers broke from the Roman Church since they believed in another gospel grounded in Scripture alone? The Roman Catholic gospel is dispensed by the Roman Catholic Church through the many Roman Catholic sacraments. This sacramental way of salvation is different than Paul’s gospel.
I think you will find Paul does not support salvation through the Catholic Sacraments.

The church is made up of all sinners who have been united to Christ. It is mutually exclusive from the Roman Catholic denomination.

"reformed:

Just because you read the word "church" in the bible, does not mean that the Bible is speaking of the "Roman Catholic Church".

I have heard on tape and read testimonies of ex-protestants turned Roman Catholic. They all have the common theme of rejecting the sufficiency of Scripture and replaced it with a different source of authority (magestrium). Remember, our personal intelligence, background and personal testimonies are flawed when trying to determine the truth.

** I really notice that Roman Catholics are more into side issues as compared to the actual discussions about the contents of the Bible.** The threads that are not about the actual contents of Scripture are flooded with participants. But once a thread is started about studying the Scriptures together as fellow Christians, seeking humbly before God to learn from the Scriptures… the participation on those threads are very small. ** I think Roman Catholics as a whole are very scared and frighten to read the Scriptures for themselves…maybe afraid what they might find in God’s Holy Scriptures**?

If you are not willing to read and the study the Scriptures for yourself, then you will be stuck in your current understanding.

If you guys don’t join us in reading the Bible together,** I will have to conclude that Roman Catholics are very intimidated in reading the Scriptures**. Are you afraid that if you read the Bible on your own, you will transform into a Protestant?

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=4316149&postcount=25"]Catholics in bible study

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=4332363&postcount=34"]When it comes to Roman Catholic Theology

I really don’t expect many Roman Catholics to freely post on this thread. BTw… don’t expect prayers to the Apostle Paul will change what has been written.

I don’t think the official Roman Catholic gospel can be supported by the writings of the Apostle Paul. Just try it if you dare? I would say the writings of Paul were foundational for the Protestant Reformation.

Your silence and lack of attempt appears that the Roman Catholic gospel cannot be supported by the Epistles of Paul (over half of the NT). Please give it a try. I don’t think the Protestant Reformers thought it was a silly game when they left the Roman Catholic Church for the gospel proclaimed by Paul.

Remember, the Protestant Reformation was an apparent recovery of the biblical gospel of God’s grace proclaimed in the Scriptures.

So I am eager to preach the gospel to you also who are in Rome.

I’m not sure you have a real desire to humbly study the Scriptures together. There is so much wasted time on these non doctrinal postings. They just stir up dissension without a real desire to grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. .

It is not the Roman Catholic Church that is the defender and guardian of fullness of truth that Jesus promised to believers. God incarnate promised something much superior than the Roman Catholic Church. He told us that the Spirit of Truth would come to us and dwell in us. God dwells in all those who are united to Christ by faith.

I will have to stand corrected. You did not say “Catholics are not united to Christ.”.

 

[twb1621]

I’m going to repeat this because I think it is worth the consideration here and I question if it is really the case no one responded because they realize it as fact. This includes “reformed”.
Those of us who have a love of our Savior want nothing more than to learn about him and know the Truth. The problem is at times we forget we are limited, very limited in our capacity to understand Him as we want to. We look for what is sensible and understandable to us with our finite minds but infinity can not be grasped with our limitations. Stepping outside of theology and just simply researching the history of Christianity will provide the answer to which Church is that of Jesus Christ and for anyone to say that the Catholic Church “was” that church until this time or that time is to claim outright our Savior is wrong or deceived us. (In such a case we are all doomed.) Many of us with our devoted beliefs can recite scripture on one hand and yet disregard scripture in the same sentence but never see what we have come to. If one is to recognize the Catholic Church as ever in the past being the Church Jesus founded, we better think long and hard about claiming it lost that standing for any reason at any time because you then blaspheme the very Word, Jesus Himself. Let’s start thinking about what we are saying, the desire is rich but the path we are being taken down is distorted and corrupt. Those “Christian Faiths” that are once and twice and three or more times separated from the Catholic Church are climbing in number upwards of 60,000 (which means what Satan has asked for he has been getting with many, us sifted like wheat. That is because so many claim they know the truth but how many splinters will there be before we actually realize who is behind the splits. Yet the Catholic Church is still the largest Christian Faith. Even Luther admitted toward his end he was wrong, more is needed than scripture alone and that any “milkmaid” can come up with their own interpretation and form their own faith.

 

[Reformed]

Post 175

Those of us who have a love of our Savior want nothing more than to learn about him and know the Truth. The problem is at times we forget we are limited, very limited in our capacity to understand Him as we want to. We look for what is sensible and understandable to us with our finite minds but infinity can not be grasped with our limitations. Stepping outside of theology and just simply researching the history of Christianity will provide the answer to which Church is that of Jesus Christ and for anyone to say that the Catholic Church was it until this time or that time is to claim outright our Savior is wrong or deceived us. Many of us with our devoted beliefs can recite scripture on one hand and yet disregard scripture in the same sentence but never see what we have come to. If one is to recognize the Catholic Church as ever in the past being the Church Jesus founded we better think long and hard about claiming it lost that for any reason at any time because you then blaspheme the very Word, Jesus Himself. Let’s start thinking about what we are saying, the desire is rich but the path we are being taken down is distorted and corrupt. Those “Christian Faiths” that are once and twice and three or more times separated from the Catholic Church are climbing in number upwards of 60000. That is because so many claim they know the truth but how many splinters will there be before we actually realize who is behind the splits.

Thank you for your post. I’m not sure what to say. Jesus Christ is full of truth and grace. How do we grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christr? Well, I turn to the Holy Scriptures, and you will turn to the Catholic Church. We do not exactly share the same source of revelation; therefore our discernment and focus will be very different.

BTW…I believe our primary purpose for our life is to glorify God and enjoy Him forever. What do you think is our primary purpose is in this life and all eternity?

 

[Reformed]

Well, let us see what the record does show about what you have said:…

(see post above for contents)

I will have to stand corrected. You did not say “Catholics are not united to Christ.”.

My positon still remains the same. It has never changed. The official Roman Catholic gospel is a different gospel than what is revealed in Scripture alone. Therefore, it is a false gospel. However, there is a remnant saved by grace in the Roman Catholic Church that is saved and united to Christ. Therefore, those who are united to Christ are truly part of the body of Christ. God does not save us by our correct theology. Christ saves sinners. The body of Christ is made-up of redeemed sinners, reconciled to God and adopted into the family of God…in-spite of our religious communities.

The official position of the Roman Catholic Church is very similar. What I proclaim to be the true gospel is condemned by the Council of Trent. Yet, the Catholic Catechism allows for those who proclaim the condemned gospel to be seperated bretherens. Therefore, I am like-minded with the Roman Catholic Church on this issue. We are just coming from opposite directions but both positions acknowledge salvation in Christ seperate and apart from our religious communities. I will state again, in Heaven all denominational seperations and distinctions will disappear. Those who will be in Heaven were saved by grace alone, through faith alone, on the basis of Christ alone… to the glory of God alone. Do you need embrace the 5 solas to be saved. My answer is no. However, when we are in Heaven, our knowledge will expand causing us to praise and worship God in a much deeper way than we are able to in this life.

 

[AshleyBelle]

My positon still remains the same. It has never changed. The official Roman Catholic gospel is a different gospel than what is revealed in Scripture alone. Therefore, it is a false gospel. However, there is a remnant saved by grace in the Roman Catholic Church that is saved and united to Christ. Therefore, those who are united to Christ are truly part of the body of Christ. God does not save us by our correct theology. Christ saves sinners. The body of Christ is made-up of redeemed sinners, reconciled to God and adopted into the family of God…in-spite of our religious communities.

The official position of the Roman Catholic Church is very similar. What I proclaim to be the true gospel is condemned by the Council of Trent. Yet, the Catholic Catechism allows for those who proclaim the condemned gospel to be seperated bretheren. Therefore, I am like-minded with the Roman Catholic Church on this issue. We are just coming from opposite directions but both positions acknowledge salvation in Christ seperate and apart from our religious communities. I will state again, in Heaven all denominational seperations and distinctions will disappear.

Good morning reformed

I would like to ask you to sincerely look into a question for me.

If, as you say, the Catholic gospel is not the gospel revealed in scripture (I’ll omit the ‘alone’ part for now) I would like to hear what you believe the church taught concerning the gospel when it first existed…that is, aproximately 190? (I have to check it was 190 years, or 200 years after Christ?) years after Christ, when the council of bishops first with the guidance of the holy spirit, put the Bible together for us. I’m referring to how we came to HAVE the Bible… There were hundreds of writings that the council had to sort through and find which ones were actually inspired. Books like the book of manashah , the didach, and others had to be claimed non inspired… even the gospel of MARK had to be claimed as written by Mark, because the actual writing had NO citation of an author

So…please, I would like you to find what the church (because I think we can agree, there was only one church at that time), taught regarding the gospel message. And then I would like to know how that message has “changed” in the church today.

Thank you

 

[Reformed]

Good morning reformed

I would like to ask you to sincerely look into a question for me.

If, as you say, the Catholic gospel is not the gospel revealed in scripture (I’ll omit the ‘alone’ part for now) I would like to hear what you believe the church taught concerning the gospel when it first existed…that is, aproximately 190? (I have to check it was 190 years, or 200 years after Christ?) years after Christ, when the council of bishops first with the guidance of the holy spirit, put the Bible together for us. I’m referring to how we came to HAVE the Bible… There were hundreds of writings that the council had to sort through and find which ones were actually inspired. Books like the book of manashah , the didach, and others had to be claimed non inspired… even the gospel of MARK had to be claimed as written by Mark, because the actual writing had NO citation of an author

So…please, I would like you to find what the church (because I think we can agree, there was only one church at that time), taught regarding the gospel message. And then I would like to know how that message has “changed” in the church today.

Thank you

Church history is very important. I think you need to know the official position of what consists of Sacred Tradition as compared to just tradition. Not all of the work of the early Church Fathers can support Catholic doctrine. They contradicted each other at times. In addition, the writings of the early Church Fathers are not considered inspired or God-breathed by the Catholic Church. If I understand the deposit of Sacred Tradition, it is a pick and choose thing, which continues to grow. God did preserve His gospel for all generations which is recorded and written down. The earliest church history which is also recorded as God-breathed is found in the Scriptures. It is superior revelation than all of Sacred Tradition found outside of Sacred Scripture. Did you follow the Sacred Oral and Written Tradition thread? Just because sinners can mishandle Scripture and incorrectly interpret the Word of God, does not nullify the truth of God’s written revelation. Actually, the Bible is a closed book for those who do not have the Spirit of God dwelling in them. It is only by the Spirit of God that a redeemed sinner can progressively grow in the grace and the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ throughout their life. Ephesians 4 is the unity passage which testifies that those with the Spirit are enabled by the Spirit to grow in unity of the essentials of the Christian Faith. Catholics like to throw out a red-herring distraction to claim that there are a million denominations. But when you study the testimonies of God’s elect and redeemed, the Spirit unites those who are in Christ with basically the same testimonies, same faith, and same gospel. Here is the gospel in a nutshell.

1 Timothy 1:15
The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost.

2 Corinthians 5:21
For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

 

[AshleyBelle]

Church history is very important. I think you need to know the official position of what consists of Sacred Tradition as compared to just tradition. Not all of the work of the early Church Fathers can support Catholic doctrine. They contradicted each other at times. In addition, the writings of the early Church Fathers are not considered inspired or God-breathed by the Catholic Church. If I understand the deposit of Sacred Tradition, it is a pick and choose thing, which continues to grow. God did preserve His gospel for all generations which is recorded and written down. The earliest church history which is also recorded as God-breathed is found in the Scriptures. It is superior revelation than all of Sacred Tradition found outside of Sacred Scripture. Did you follow the Sacred Oral and Written Tradition thread? Just because sinners can mishandle Scripture and incorrectly interpret the Word of God, does not nullify the truth of God’s written revelation. Actually, the Bible is a closed book for those who do not have the Spirit of God dwelling in them. It is only by the Spirit of God that a redeemed sinner can progressively grow in the grace and the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ throughout their life. Ephesians 4 is the unity passage which testifies that those with the Spirit are enabled by the Spirit to grow in unity of the essentials of the Christian Faith. Catholics like to throw out a red-herring distraction to claim that there are a million denominations. But when you study the testimony of God’s elect and redeemed, the Spirit unites those who are in Christ with basically the same testimony, same faith, and same gospel.

I'm not asking about church history, or traditions, or who can interpret scripture.

My question is simply ; What did the church TEACH about Christ’s gospel message when the first Christians did not even have the Bible…

And how is the Gospel message of the Catholic church today any different?

 

[Reformed]

I’m not asking about church history, or traditions, or who can interpret scripture.

My question is simply ; What did the church TEACH about Christ’s gospel message when the first Christians did not even have the Bible…

And how is the Gospel message of the Catholic church today any different?

Christians always had the Bible. Did you know that the Apostles and Jesus Christ quoted the Bible all the time? How did Jesus respond to Satan in the desert? What is concealed in the OT was revealed in the NT. When the Apostles wrote to the churches (NT Epistles), they were quoting Scripture recorded in the OT. Why do you think God chose Paul to bring the gospel to the Gentiles (the rest of the world)? Why did Jesus rebuke Nicodemus in John 3? Both Paul and Nicodemus were extremely knowledgably in the Scriptures. All of Scripture points to Jesus Christ and the cross, especially the OT. The Bible is really just one book of redemptive history. I’m not sure if you were steeped in dispensationalism, and I know Quakers can be quite loose in their theology, but we cannot seperate the Bible as two seperate books. The true jews are those who are in Christ.

 

[AshleyBelle]

Christians always had the Bible. Did you know that the Apostles and Jesus Christ quoted the Bible all the time? How did Jesus respond to Satatn in the desert? What is concealed in the OT was revealed in the NT. When the Apostles wrote to the churches (NT Epstiles), they were quoting Scripture recorded in the OT. Why do you think God chose Paul to bring the gospel to the Gentiles (the rest of the world)? Why did Jesus rebuke Nicodemus in John 3? All of Scripture points to Jesus Christ and the cross, especially the OT.

Yes I agree, they had the old testament scriptures… But Christ himself rebuked the Jews for searching the scriptures for prophecies of the Messiah and to figure out when the Messiah was coming… They knew the Old Testament predicted His coming… But He rebuked them because they stuck to the scriptures when He was already among them!

Paul and the apostles indeed had the old testament scriptures, but they also personally KNEW and experienced Christ! They were teaching not just what they read in the old testament, but what they LIVED, not through writings, but through oral tradition.

They certainly had the “gospel message” prefigured in the old testament, but the message they taught was not only from scriptures, but from KNOWING Christ, present among them!

So…my question still remains. And it really is a sincere one. If you are unable to provide an answer, then I have got to assume that the Catholic church of today teaches the same message the very first church taught.

What was the gospel message taught by the apostles and their successors of the first church, that is not taught by the catholic church today?

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Christians always had the Bible. Did you know that the Apostles and Jesus Christ quoted the Bible all the time? How did Jesus respond to Satatn in the desert? What is concealed in the OT was revealed in the NT. When the Apostles wrote to the churches (NT Epstiles), they were quoting Scripture recorded in the OT. Why do you think God chose Paul to bring the gospel to the Gentiles (the rest of the world)? Why did Jesus rebuke Nicodemus in John 3? Both Paul and Nicodemus were extremely knowledable in the Scriptures. All of Scripture points to Jesus Christ and the cross, especially the OT.

Christians did not have the new testament, as you know, for many decades or even centuries after Christ.

Many Christians couldn’t read.

The truths of the Church were preserved and spread through verbal communication as teaching and through the liturgy of the mass.

 

[graceandglory]

Reformed:
I think the whole concept of loving God is seriously lacking in most protestant circles. I remember before I converted to Catholicism, I visited a Mass. The whole Mass was about intimate communion with God. Gazing at Christ on the cross, receiving Him into our bodies, meditating on God’s word, worshipping, bowing our knees, and praying the whole way through.

Then I went back to my protestant evangelical charismatic church. We got to sing some worship songs, and those who felt moved by the music might be able to close their eyes and raise their hands and concentrate on “feeling His presence.”

Then came the sermon.
An hour talk about prayer.
No praying, mind you. No intimacy with God. Just talking ABOUT GOD and ABOUT prayer.

(Basically what we do here at CAF, IMHO)

Then the pastor prayed a quick little prayer,
“Dear Heavenly Father, Thank You for being with us and loving us and bringing us close to You. Thank you for Your Word, the Bible. Be with us Lord as we go into our week, and help us bring glory to You.”

Something like that. And it was time to go.

WHERE WAS THE PRAYER???

WHERE WERE WE INVITED TO ENTER CHRIST’S PRESENCE?

WHEN DID WE ACTUALLY COMMUNE WITH GOD, BY EATING HIS BODY, AND DRINKING HIS BLOOD???

THAT IS INTIMACY. THAT IS LOVE.

You want to find out about Religious Affections and Love for GOD?
So did I for nearly 20 yrs as an evangelical. I even bought many a devotional and book about Loving God. I wanted those religious affections. Affections that were without a doubt about LOVING GOD. I bought Chuck Colson’s book “Loving God.”

Not until I came into the Catholic Church did I experience loving God. You want to know about Loving God?

Read St. John of the Cross. Read “Interior Castles” by St. Teresa of Avila.

These are just two Saints who are mighty in their love of God.

As a protestant, we got to invite Jesus into our heart ONCE, and then we just have to believe He’s there. No point inviting Him again because He’s already there. We get to “get saved” once.

As a Catholic, we can not only figuratively “invite Jesus into our heart” but we get to receive Him, Body, and Blood, Soul, and Divinity, into our bodies. That is love. That is intimacy with God.
That is deep Communion with Christ. We get to do that every week, or every day if we want. Does he go away? No. But we get to experience the intimacy of receiving Him each time we receive Him in the Eucharist.

This is Love.
I love You Oh My God, and my only desire is to love You until the last breath of my life. I love You, Oh my infinitely loveable God, and I would rather die loving You, than live without loving You. I love You Lord, and the only grace I ask is to love You eternally. My God, if my tongue can not say in every moment that I love You, I want my heart to repeat it to You as often as I draw breath. Amen.
~St. John Vianney

 

[Reformed]

Yes I agree, they had the old testament scriptures… But Christ himself rebuked the Jews for searching the scriptures for prophecies of the Messiah and to figure out when the Messiah was coming… They knew the Old Testament predicted His coming… But He rebuked them because they stuck to the scriptures when He was already among them!

Paul and the apostles indeed had the old testament scriptures, but they also personally KNEW and experienced Christ! They were teaching not just what they read in the old testament, but what they LIVED, not through writings, but through oral tradition.

They certainly had the “gospel message” prefigured in the old testament, but the message they taught was not only from scriptures, but from KNOWING Christ, present among them!

So…my question still remains. And it really is a sincere one. If you are unable to provide an answer, then I have got to assume that the Catholic church of today teaches the same message the very first church taught.

What was the gospel message taught by the apostles and their successors of the first church, that is not taught by the catholic church today?

We know the Apostles were eye-witnesses to the ministry of Jesus Christ. What a great privilege they were given to be chosen to walk with Him in all of redemptive history. For the rest of us Christians, we walk by faith according to their testimonies. How do Catholics understand the testimonies of the Apostles, but through the New Testament Scriptures? Do you want to know what the Apostles saw, felt, experienced and heard from the incarnate God? We have to turn to the Scriptures. Jesus Christ told them that they would not be orphans when He left the 11 disciples. When Christ ascended, the promised Holy Spirit dwelled in the chosen disciples to remind them all that Christ taught. What did the Spirit of God remind the Apostles about…but what Jesus taught, and where can we find what the Apostles heard from God the Holy Spirit, but through Holy Scriptures. Do you at least agree that the writings of the Apostles revealed in the New Testament are more trustworthy than all of apparent successor’s of Peter combined? Which source of revelation is superior, Sacred Tradition or Sacred Scriputre?

The testimony and eye-witmenss account of the Apostle John:

John 1The Word Became Flesh

1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life, [1] and the life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light.

9 The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. 11 He came to his own, [2] and his own people [3] did not receive him. 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 (John bore witness about him, and cried out, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me ranks before me, because he was before me.’”) 16 And from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God; the only God, [4] who is at the Father’s side, [5] he has made him known.

 

[AshleyBelle]

We know the Apostles were eye-witnesses to the ministry of Jesus Christ. What a great privilege they were given to be chosen to walk with Him in all of redemptive history. For the rest of us Christians, we walk by faith according to their testimonies. How do Catholics understand the testimonies of the Apostles, but through the New Testament Scriptures? Do you want to know what the Apostles saw, felt, experienced and heard from the incarnate God? We have to turn to the Scriptures. Jesus Christ told them that they would not be orphans when He left the 11 disciples. When Christ ascended, the promised Holy Spirit dwelled in the chosen disciples to remind them all that Christ taught. What did the Spirit of God remind the Apostles about…but what Jesus taught, and where can we find what the Apostles heard from God the Holy Spirit, but through Holy Scriptures. Do you at least agree that the writings of the Apostles revealed in the New Testament are more trustworthy than all of apparent successor’s of Peter combined? Which source of revelation is superior, Sacred Tradition or Sacred Scriputre?

Reformed, before we move on, I must insist we stick to one question at a time I asked very sincerely, and it really seems you are unable to answer.

What does the Catholic church teach today about the gospel message that differs from what the very first Christians in the church were taught and believed about the gospel message? What has changed?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

My positon still remains the same. It has never changed. The official Roman Catholic gospel is a different gospel than what is revealed in Scripture alone. Therefore, it is a false gospel.

Reformed,

You are working many threads, all with the same message of your belief and assertion of “Bible alone”. You bring up many points, in your working of many threads, yet you fail to address the repeated assertion of your belief of “Bible alone”.

Scripture alone or Bible alone, amounts to the sole authority over Christ’s people. The most familiar term for this belief is “sola scriptura”. This is the belief that God reveals His truth to each individual through scriptures and scriptures alone, even if each individual receives a different “truth”, according to their private interpretation. Sola scriptura is a false Gospel.

How can God’s truth be different for each individual according to their private interpretation? How can the many denominations be perfectly one with so many different doctrines?

**Joh 10:16 And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd.

Eph 4:3 eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call,
Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all.

Rom 16:17 I appeal to you, brethren, to take note of those who create dissensions and difficulties, in opposition to the doctrine which you have been taught; avoid them.

1Co 1:10 I appeal to you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree and that there be no dissensions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.

Php 2:2 complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind.

Rom 15:5 May the God of steadfastness and encouragement grant you to live in such harmony with one another, in accord with Christ Jesus,
Rom 15:6 that together you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Joh 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth.
Joh 17:18 As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world.
Joh 17:19 And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth.
Joh 17:20 "I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word,
Joh 17:21 that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Joh 17:22 The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one,
Joh 17:23 I in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them even as thou hast loved me.

1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body–Jews or Greeks, slaves or free–and all were made to drink of one Spirit.

Rom 12:4 For as in one body we have many members, and all the members do not have the same function,
Rom 12:5 so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.

Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call,

Col 3:15 And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in the one body. And be thankful.
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You state you believe scriptures to be God inspired. Why didn’t God inspire it be written that scriptures was the pillar and ground of truth, instead of the Church?

**1Ti 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. **

Why didn’t Christ teach us to take our disputes to scriptures, if it’s the sole authority, instead of the Church?

**Mat 18:17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican. **

The Catholic Church, that you claim to be false, through the canonical process, brought the letters and epistles together to be one complete Bible. The Catholic Church preserved the Bible for centuries before the Protestant reformation, where the teaching of sola scriptura evolved.

The Church and faith existed before the Bible. Many were converted prior to the Bible’s existence. The living Church Christ created is older than the Bible.

Why did God inspire the dangers of misinterpretations be written?

**2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction. **

Christ taught to listen to the Church, even if the “men” themselves did not live what they taught. Don’t you think this is God’s way of telling us the teachings would be protected?

**Mat 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples,
Mat 23:2 Saying: The scribes and the Pharisees have sitten on the chair of Moses.
Mat 23:3 All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do: but according to their works do ye not. For they say, and do not. **

You continue to “preach” your Gospel as right over all others. That directs us to the beginning of “authority”. Please tell us where it is taught that the Bible is the sole authority.