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guanophore
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I think, if you are willing to read the rest of my post, the answer to this question will be clear.
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Reformed
Guest
I don’t think you know the answer my friend.
Romans 10
Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
Romans 3
The Righteousness of God Through Faith
But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.
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MerickOWA
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Since I have only recently discovered catholic.com and its forums I highly doubt we’ve talked before.
With regard to my question. The bible seems to distinguish between faith and works, so what is meant by faith alone if obedience/love is also required? Isn’t faith sufficient?
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guanophore
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Reformed, have some respect for me. No one who attacks the Body of Christ as you have done is any friend of mine.
Since you apparently have astigmatism, I will post it again for you:
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Reformed
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Do you understand the doctrine of justification?
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MerickOWA
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Who’s doctrine of justification?
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Reformed
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I do apologize if I misunderstood your original post. I really have a hard time reading your posts, because they seem very hostile. I tend to gloss over most of what you post to me. There are Roman Catholics on here that are able to communicate in a more open and effectual way. It is not easy for me to post on here, since there are so many Roman Catholics responding, some are sincere, and some are very hostile. I had no idea that the moderators would allow me to stay on this fourm site for such a long time? The last Catholic forum site allowed me to post for about a month before they banned me. I will still be reading responses to me very selectively, depending on the preceived attitude that I get from those who answer me on a regular basis. If you want to understand the tension I have on this site, please go a Protestant Forum Site and post what you believe on a daily basis.
Remember Jesus Christ, risen from the dead, the offspring of David, as preached in my gospel, for which I am suffering, bound with chains as a criminal. But the word of God is not bound! Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. - The Apostle Paul from the Holy Bible
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Reformed
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Please explain the two views of justification so I can see where you are coming from. We have a Roman Catholic understanding of justificatin and a Protestant understanding of justification.
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AshleyBelle
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Reformed, we have no question that you are posting with what you truly believe to be your mission for Christ on these threads. To share your faith and bring others to your understanding of that faith! Suffering persecution for Christ is truly a gift!
But please also understand, that there is a difference between sharing your faith with others, and condemning other faiths.
We will not try to convert you to catholocism here. We will gladly share the fullness of the truth that has been handed down through our church, but never with the intention of making you believe as we do.
But it seems, you do not extend the same courtesy. You speak of “sharing the scriptures together as Christians” with the guise of ecumical dialogue, but you seem to me, a wolf in sheep’s clothing. You are not here to gain understanding or to share your understanding. You are here on a mission to bring catholics “out of the dark” and into your light.
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Reformed
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Ashley,
You still have yet to try to interpert the Scriptures after numerous postings on Bible Study threads. You can call me a wolf in sheep’s clothing if you’d like, but I have a pretty good insight of your spiritual understanding of the essentials of the Chriistian Faith.
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AshleyBelle
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I would have a better understanding of the “essentials” if you could please show me in the Bible where these “essentials” are listed
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MerickOWA
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As I see it theres 3 views of justification.
Justification by Works apart from Faith: Your good deeds allow you to attain the sanctifying grace for eternal life. Jesus’s sacrifice was not the only way to receive God’s sanctifying grace.
Justification by Faith apart from Works: Your faith in Jesus Christ allows you to connect yourself to Christ’s perfect sacrifice and thus to the sanctifying grace given freely by God for that perfect sacrifice. Nothing further is required for this process to take place after the initial proclamation of faith.
Justification by Faith Working in Love: Your faith and following baptism into Jesus Christ connects you to him, but your continued good deeds allows God to effect the freely given sanctifying grace.
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guanophore
Guest
I do tend to fight fire with fire, or, I prefer my Kama, the Okinawan harvesting sickle that you see in the picture below. The Chinese forbid the occupied inhabitants of the Ryu Kyu islands from bearing weapons, so they learned to fight with their farm implements.
In your case, a dung shovel is usually sufficient.
Clearly. But this is not a surprise:
Obviously you don’t want to read or respond to anything that does not meet your criteria for a teachable ‘attitude’.
That is ok, though, I am not posting it as much for you as I am the lurkers.
More power to them! I pray that God will bless their efforts to reach you.
And yet, you have still to grasp that Catholcism is not Roman?
We don’t eject people who believe differently, like some of the other fora do. People are banned for refusal to comply with the forum rules. Disagreement does not concern us. Disrespect does.
If your behavior here is any sample, I am surprised you lasted that long. Your prejudice and degrading remarks are exceptionally offensive.
Been there, been banned. I understand the tension. It is very difficult to succeed in evangelizing those who are very solid in their faith. The catholics you find here are not like many who are weak in the scriptures or in their faith. I know, I used to be one.
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guanophore
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Behold, the self portrait of Reformed!
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guanophore
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Ashley!
I see that your hubby had a private talk with Reformed, and he is now in possession of your spiritual understanding of the “essentials of the Christian Faith”.
I am personally very relieved that you have submitted to the Federal Headship of both of these men, and that you have complied with that biblical list of the essentials. I think now you realize that this essential list is found right next to the definition of Trinity, the hypostatic union, and the list of books that belong in the Bible. God bless you for you humility.
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Reformed
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Guanophore,
It seems very difficult for you to go through the Holy Scriptures with the motive to learn from God the Holy Spirit through the Word of God. You sure have a daily pattern to avoid the light of the Word of God by your apparent personal attacks. You are quite the distraction. I wonder if this is an intentional agenda? I’ve seen this kind of behavoir before in another religion forum while discussing the 13 Epistles of Paul and the gospel with LDS Christians. I will now ignore all of your comments for the sake of the group. I think I have been patient with you, but I just want to go through the Scriptures with Christians (both Protestants, Catholic, and Orthodox Christians). The body of Christ consists of all who are united to Christ by faith in-spite of our religious communities. I wish you the very best Guanophore, but for the sake of the 3 Bible Study threads, I will no longer be responding to you. May God richly bless you and your family.
In Christ,
Reformed
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AshleyBelle
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These are the three views as I understand as well. Works alone, faith alone, or faith working through love
I think there may also be a fourth view of justification, where one believes neither faith, works, nor love merit salvation. We are simply elect or non elect…Pre destined as children of God, or predestined as “children of the devil.” and there’s nothing we can do to change it.
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guanophore
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Not at all! In fact, it was just such an approach that led me back to the Catholic Church after many years sojourning in Protestatn communities. What is difficult for me is to take you seriously. It is clear to me from your posts that you are not interested in us learning from God. You want us to learn the Refromed approach to the scriptures.
Actually, Reformed, this may come as a shock to you, but I have a daily pattern of enjoying the light of the Word of God without you.
I have not been dependent upon you, or the Reformed theology to enjoy the Word of God daily. 
It is your “light” that I wish to avoid, a light that seems more like darkness to me. It is hard for me to believe that you could be so disparaging of Catholics, and still reflect much of the light and love of God.
I am responding to the posts that I am reading. Do I seem distracted?
I think you have already informed me that you skimmed over them anyway. It seems clear to me by your postings that you are not reading them.
I think, though, if you avoid them, it is for the sake of your evangelistic agenda, and not for the “group”, who I believe are little benefitted by your anti-catholic rhetoric.
This would be much more credible had you refrained from all the pejorative remarks toward Catholics.
Thank you, Reformed, I can use all the blessings I can get. I agree that the Body of Christ contains all who are united to Christ. However, this is still a deficient view of the Church.
You have also made it clear that you do not believe Catholics are united to Christ, so therefore, are not members of that Body.
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Reformed
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For the record… I never said that Catholics are not united to Christ. I have posted that there are individual Protestants and Catholics who profess Christ and are not converted or united to Christ. I think Jesus stated that too.Not at all! In fact, it was just such an approach that led me back to the Catholic Church after many years sojourning in Protestatn communities. What is difficult for me is to take you seriously. It is clear to me from your posts that you are not interested in us learning from God. You want us to learn the Refromed approach to the scriptures.
Actually, Reformed, this may come as a shock to you, but I have a daily pattern of enjoying the light of the Word of God without you.
It is your “light” that I wish to avoid, a light that seems more like darkness to me. It is hard for me to believe that you could be so disparaging of Catholics, and still reflect much of the light and love of God.
I am responding to the posts that I am reading. Do I seem distracted?
I think you have already informed me that you skimmed over them anyway. It seems clear to me by your postings that you are not reading them.
I think, though, if you avoid them, it is for the sake of your evangelistic agenda, and not for the “group”, who I believe are little benefitted by your anti-catholic rhetoric.
This would be much more credible had you refrained from all the pejorative remarks toward Catholics.
Thank you, Reformed, I can use all the blessings I can get. I agree that the Body of Christ contains all who are united to Christ. However, this is still a deficient view of the Church.
You have also made it clear that you do not believe Catholics are united to Christ, so therefore, are not members of that Body.
I Never Knew You - Mat 7
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
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AshleyBelle
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I love this passage
So, you would agree, that even if someone has faith and believes in Christ, that is not enough to enter heaven? “The one who does the will of my father who is in heaven.” This seems to imply to me, that faith is not enough.
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