Republican Primary

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Please look at your party platform. Pro drug legalization. Pro prostitution legalization. Pro pornography. Pro abortion. They don’t say anything about gluttony though. Or promiscuity. Or the focus on sensual pleasures So I don’t think Libertarians and libertines are the same thing. Both words are derived from “Liber” meaning liberty. The issue is liberty to do what and at what cost to society? If I eat myself into an early grave or enjoy sexual pleasures with a consenting adult I am not harming society. Libertarians however support activities that come with a very high societal cost…something they never seem to address.

Libertarians cannot ignore their party’s outspoken support for what most of us believe is devient behavior. I have a hard time believing that most Americans support legalized drugs, prostitutes, pornography access, and abortion as a “choice.” Most Americans realize that lifting all restrictions on such behavior will come at a very high price to our society.

Now I am in full agreement with the small government approach but the irony is that the ignorance of societal costs of the other half of their platform makes that impossible. I cannot accept Libertarianism as a serious party because it’s so internally inconsistent.

Lisa
For the last time, I am not part of the Libertarian Party. I am not part of any political party. I prefer to think for myself.
 
I don’t care what Ron Paul does, I just want the catholic supporters of Ron Paul to do something effective to stop Obama’s assault on the CAtholic church and religious liberty come election time - i.e. vote for the GOP candidate.

Ishii
This may be what you want, but it goes beyond what the Catholic Church teaches. In the end, we are responsible before God for our choice, not the wishes of individual Catholics. It the GOP wants the moral vote, it is up to them to put forward a moral candidate. Then it is up to each person to decide if the nominee is in fact the moral choice. This is the teaching of the Catholic Church.
 
After being 10% behind in Gallup tracker survey, Romney is now 2% ahead

“Gallup’s survey finds Romney garnering 50 percent support in a hypothetical matchup with Obama to the president’s 46 percent. Romney’s support is up two percent from the organization’s last survey of a hypothetical general election between the president and the former Massachusetts governor. Santorum, a former Pennsylvania senator, draws 48 percent in a hypothetical matchup of himself against Obama, compared to the president’s 49 percent.” - The Hill
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"Less than a third (32 percent) of GOP voters see Santorum as the strongest challenger to Obama; a big majority (58 percent) agrees that Mitt has the best shot" - Michael Medved for the [
](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...th-obama-landslide-against-rick-santorum.html)
Santorum 32.9%, Romey 29.0%, Gingrich 14.4%, Paul 12.4% - RCP national average

Some more good news for Romney
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 [INDENT]Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer endorses Mitt Romney - [Weekly Standard](http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/arizona-gov-brewer-endorses-romney_631952.html) | [Washington Post](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/post/arizona-gov-jan-brewer-endorses-mitt-romney/2012/02/26/gIQAvBVlbR_blog.html)

 "If Rick Santorum wins in Michigan on Tuesday but loses Arizona, he may get the better spin out of the evening while winding up with fewer delegates. That is because Arizona is a winner-take-all state whereas Michigan is not." - [Nate Silver](http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/25/the-g-o-p-s-fuzzy-delegate-math/)

"Santorum’s surprising surge appears to have ground to halt in the last week. A renewed focus on his extremely conservative views on social issues combined with an all-out attack on his congressional record by Romney’s well-oiled campaign machine has damaged the Pennsylvanian." - [Commentary](http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2012/02/26/romney-tactics-problems-hypocrisy-santorum/)

Only two of the four Republicans still standing, Mitt Romney and Rep. Ron Paul (Texas), have assembled national campaigns capable of pivoting to the general election - [Roll Call](http://www.rollcall.com/issues/57_99/Presidential-Primary-Has-GOP-Nervous-212616-1.html?pos=hftxt)
Rick Santorum: We need bold tax reform, but Mitt Romney wants to tinker at the margins

In the Wall Street Journal Senator Santorum lists a ten point economic agenda, including: “I’ll submit to Congress comprehensive tax policies to strengthen opportunity in our country, with only two income tax rates of 10% and 28%. To help families, I’ll triple the personal deduction for children and eliminate the marriage tax penalty.”

Romney defends the progressive tax code - Fox
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"In back-to-back speeches over the weekend, [Santorum] described President Obama as “a snob” for focusing on the importance of a college education and disparaged the idea of a separation between church and state by attacking President John F. Kennedy, who made it a key point in his 1960 campaign" - [Washington Post](http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/santorum-presses-culture-wars-attack/2012/02/26/gIQAqSkicR_story.html)

 "Rick Santorum on Sunday reached out to voters who do not want a college degree, saying that pushing Americans toward higher education “devalues the tremendous work” of people who are not interested in going to college" - [WSJ](http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2012/02/26/santorum-reaches-out-to-voters-who-dont-want-college-degrees/)
Rick Santorum says the notion of religion not playing role in politics “makes me want to throw up" - Politico

The NRO Editors warn Santorum to exercise more “discrimination and tact” in how he expresses himself.

Santorum makes case for religion in public sphere - New York Times
Republican Governors want presidential candidate to focus on economy, not social issues - [Politico](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0212/73284.html)
 
Romney, Santorum Represent Different White Americas - Michael Barone for RCP

**Ron Paul is denying reports that he is teaming up with opponent Mitt Romney to defeat Romney’s chief rival, Rick Santorum, in Tuesday’s primary **- Washington Examiner

Gingrich says he is staking the future of his presidential campaign on a win in his home state, Georgia - MSNBC
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Gingrich focuses on rising gas prices in bid to refuel campaign - [WSJ](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204653604577247310228865848.html?mod=WSJ_Election_LEFTTopStories)
Obama prepares to fight gas prices with new bumper sticker - HotAir

Obama is in a stronger position but economy and early end to GOP race could still defeat him - E J Dionne in the Washington Post
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Romney having to use funds he'd intended for general election - [New York Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/26/us/politics/prolonged-gop-race-forces-romney-to-recalibrate.html?ref=politics)
Labor unions no longer upping funding to Democrats - WSJ
 
I don’t care what Ron Paul does, I just want the catholic supporters of Ron Paul to do something effective to stop Obama’s assault on the CAtholic church and religious liberty come election time - i.e. vote for the GOP candidate.

Ishii
why do some people think a vote for ron paul = a vote for obama?

Ron Paul will do as much as the GOP candidates to stop his attack on life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Including religious liberty, attacks on the dignity of human life along with others.

Personally I don’t think Romney views are in line with the Church, and he has flipped flopped on abortion, so I take what he says on abortion with a grain of salt.

Newt same thing, even though I don’t think he is a flip flopper

even though Santorum says his views are in line with the church I don’t exactly trust him on that his voting record hasn’t always lined up with what he says he supports.

Ron Paul is the only candidate on the ballot who ALWAYS votes for what he says he supports, he supports things I believe are atleast decently in line with the Church, (your never going to find the perfect candidate) and I also think that he is exactly what this country needs right now. I believe this country would stop its destructive path under a ron paul presidency. The budget would truly be balanced, pork would truly stop. We would have free trade, we would start to gain more allies overseas, we would bring out troops home abroad, and so on and so forth. Ron Paul IMO is what this country needs and he holds NO view that is in direct violation of Church teaching.
 
If Santorum is nominated by the Republicans to run for president, Obama will win easily. Santorum’s position on contraception is not clear. It is too nuanced for the voting public. He says he almost threw up when he read JFK’s 1960 speech about separating religion and politics; he claims to be against contraception but says he would not try to prevent people from using it. He has painted himself into a corner on an issue that is a loser for current political purposes… Studies reported on this website say that even Catholic women are using contraception at about the same rate as the general population. This, notwithstanding Humane Vitae and the exhortations of the clergy since it was published. A majority of voters is not going to put that availability at risk.
 
If Santorum is nominated by the Republicans to run for president, Obama will win easily. Santorum’s position on contraception is not clear. It is too nuanced for the voting public. He says he almost threw up when he read JFK’s 1960 speech about separating religion and politics; he claims to be against contraception but says he would not try to prevent people from using it. He has painted himself into a corner on an issue that is a loser for current political purposes… Studies reported on this website say that even Catholic women are using contraception at about the same rate as the general population. This, notwithstanding Humane Vitae and the exhortations of the clergy since it was published. A majority of voters is not going to put that availability at risk.
he also voted for laws that are for contraceptive funding, so I don’t trust his voting record, and I think if he wins the nomination people will harp him on his voting record.

Just like they will harp romney on romney care.
 
why do some people think a vote for ron paul = a vote for obama?

Ron Paul will do as much as the GOP candidates to stop his attack on life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Including religious liberty, attacks on the dignity of human life along with others.

Personally I don’t think Romney views are in line with the Church, and he has flipped flopped on abortion, so I take what he says on abortion with a grain of salt.

Newt same thing, even though I don’t think he is a flip flopper

even though Santorum says his views are in line with the church I don’t exactly trust him on that his voting record hasn’t always lined up with what he says he supports.

Ron Paul is the only candidate on the ballot who ALWAYS votes for what he says he supports, he supports things I believe are atleast decently in line with the Church, (your never going to find the perfect candidate) and I also think that he is exactly what this country needs right now. I believe this country would stop its destructive path under a ron paul presidency. The budget would truly be balanced, pork would truly stop. We would have free trade, we would start to gain more allies overseas, we would bring out troops home abroad, and so on and so forth. Ron Paul IMO is what this country needs and he holds NO view that is in direct violation of Church teaching.
Ron Paul has some very good ideas and you’re right he’s consistent but there are a couple of very serious problems with his candidacy, the main one is that the President of the United States is the LEADER OF THE FREE WORLD.

Ron Paul has been in Congress how many decades? He cannot lead. He cannot inspire. He cannot negotiate. He has accomplished zippity do dah as far as legislation. Leadership is one of the most important qualities needed in a President. He simply is not a leader. He’s affable, he’s direct, he’s consistent. He is not a leader.

As to Romney not being in line with the Church…well he’s a Mormon not a Catholic. I am sick of hearing about the ‘flip flop’ because as one commentator mentioned, it basically innoculates him against flopping BACK. Do you really think he’s going to wake up tomorrow and support abortion? Really? PUH LEASE.

Santorum also has good qualities and is a strong voice for pro life issues. But he’s a typical politician and has a record (against Right to Work, pork, earmarks, supporting Spector) that makes me pause.

Love much about Newt but he’s a target rich environment. More baggage than United Airlines.

At any rate the perfect candidate doesn’t exist and we have to quit tilting at windmills. Any of these men would be a huge improvement on Obama

Lisa
 
Leader of the Free World ??? Are you serious ? With the Patriot Act, the NDAA, the HHS mandate, the DHS asking everyone to spy on everyone, launching drones into countries the government doesn’t like, threatening military action against Syria and Iran, etc. More like self appointed policeman for the world.
No country with Barack Obama as President, Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State, Eric Holder as Attorney General, and Janet Napolitano as the head of the DHS, should be the leader of anything.
 
Leader of the Free World ??? Are you serious ? With the Patriot Act, the NDAA, the HHS mandate, the DHS asking everyone to spy on everyone, launching drones into countries the government doesn’t like, threatening military action against Syria and Iran, etc. More like self appointed policeman for the world.
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                             No country with Barack Obama as President, Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State, Eric Holder as Attorney General, and Janet Napolitano as the head of the DHS, should be the leader of anything.
And we should stop considering this the “Land of the Free”.
 
Leader of the Free World ??? Are you serious ? With the Patriot Act, the NDAA, the HHS mandate, the DHS asking everyone to spy on everyone, launching drones into countries the government doesn’t like, threatening military action against Syria and Iran, etc. More like self appointed policeman for the world.
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                             No country with Barack Obama as President, Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State, Eric Holder as Attorney General, and Janet Napolitano as the head of the DHS, should be the leader of anything.
I agree with the latter paragraph but the first paragraph is IMO a vast overstatement of reality. The brownshirts are not going to arrive on your doorstep tomorrow. Can I venture a guess you are a Paul supporter?

If so please respond to the issue of how you think Mr Paul has the qualities to lead the free world?
Lisa
 
He says he almost threw up when he read JFK’s 1960 speech about separating religion and politics; he claims to be against contraception but says he would not try to prevent people from using it. He has painted himself into a corner on an issue that is a loser for current political purposes…
Except when its pointed out the Obama appears to have an even greater problem with Kennedy’s speech than Santorum.
Not only is Obama playing the race card in an attempt to pressure black Americans into voting for him, he is also violating the separation between church and state. In the video promo for the campaign, Obama urges black people to pressure churches into supporting his administration by getting his message out via “the faith community”. He also calls on voters to become “congregation captains”.
prisonplanet.com/obama-plays-race-card-calls-on-churches-to-support-campaign.html
 
I agree with the latter paragraph but the first paragraph is IMO a vast overstatement of reality. The brownshirts are not going to arrive on your doorstep tomorrow. Can I venture a guess you are a Paul supporter?

If so please respond to the issue of how you think Mr Paul has the qualities to lead the free world?
Lisa
He has the ideas that take us back to being a true free world.

As conservative as I am personally, you big government conservatives are just as much of a problem as Obama.
 
He has the ideas that take us back to being a true free world.

As conservative as I am personally, you big government conservatives are just as much of a problem as Obama.
👍

Lets see what “big-government conservatives/Republicans” have given us, the so-called “Land of the Free”.
  • the public indoctrination of children (Horace Mann)
  • suspension of habeus corpus without Congressional approval (Abraham Lincoln), among other things
  • the “Progressive Movement” (Theodore Roosevelt) and Team American, World Police Force
  • the persecution of Catholics (No Nothings)
  • Prohibition (still an active party, but their purpose mimics much of what Republicans around here want)
  • The Federal Reserve System (Nelson Aldrich)
  • Patriot Act (Dubya)
  • TARP (Dubya)
  • NDAA (Sen. John McCain, 2008 Republican Presidential candidate)
 
Ron Paul has some very good ideas and you’re right he’s consistent but there are a couple of very serious problems with his candidacy, the main one is that the President of the United States is the LEADER OF THE FREE WORLD.
Ron Paul has been in Congress how many decades? He cannot lead. He cannot inspire. He cannot negotiate. He has accomplished zippity do dah as far as legislation. Leadership is one of the most important qualities needed in a President. He simply is not a leader. He’s affable, he’s direct, he’s consistent. He is not a leader.
that’s because the legislation he puts forward is what main stream calls extreme. He has been pushing audit the fed for a long time, but this is a difficult thing to pass because if you are liberal you don’t think the fed should be audited, because it will limit your ability to do what you want, and same with neocons we couldn’t finance the wars that we always fight in. The reason he hasn’t passed legislation is because he goes for extreme legislation.
As to Romney not being in line with the Church…well he’s a Mormon not a Catholic. I am sick of hearing about the ‘flip flop’ because as one commentator mentioned, it basically innoculates him against flopping BACK. Do you really think he’s going to wake up tomorrow and support abortion? Really? PUH LEASE.
why this makes me question if he really is pro life, I don’t think it makes it to where he can’t flip back. Plus I don’t like the romney care stuff to much like obama care, and I’m against obama care more then just it funds abortion
Santorum also has good qualities and is a strong voice for pro life issues.
I don’t deny this
But he’s a typical politician and has a record (against Right to Work, pork, earmarks, supporting Spector) that makes me pause.
same with me
Love much about Newt but he’s a target rich environment. More baggage than United Airlines.
don’t think he has much of a chance, nothing in his platform really excites me.
At any rate the perfect candidate doesn’t exist and we have to quit tilting at windmills. Any of these men would be a huge improvement on Obama
the perfect candidate doesn’t exist and probably will never exist but it doesn’t hurt to ask the question who is best for this country. IMO its Ron Paul, followed by Santorum, then Newt then in a very distant fourth romeny, and even a more distant fifth obama
 
that’s because the legislation he puts forward is what main stream calls extreme. He has been pushing audit the fed for a long time, but this is a difficult thing to pass because if you are liberal you don’t think the fed should be audited, because it will limit your ability to do what you want, and same with neocons we couldn’t finance the wars that we always fight in. The reason he hasn’t passed legislation is because he goes for extreme legislation.

why this makes me question if he really is pro life, I don’t think it makes it to where he can’t flip back. Plus I don’t like the romney care stuff to much like obama care, and I’m against obama care more then just it funds abortion

I don’t deny this

same with me

don’t think he has much of a chance, nothing in his platform really excites me.

the perfect candidate doesn’t exist and probably will never exist but it doesn’t hurt to ask the question who is best for this country. IMO its Ron Paul, followed by Santorum, then Newt then in a very distant fourth romeny, and even a more distant fifth obama
Romney will forever more call himself pro life, whether he is or not is anyone’s guess. If he isn’t he won’t think twice about supporting a bill that has pro choice content under the pretense that the bill was a compromise and had things in it that outweighed the pro choice content.
 
Oh, I see. I didn’t realize you speak for “most Americans.” :rolleyes:
I wasn’t speaking for all Americans, you seem to have a desire to interject into my statements your own eroneos ideas.

My statement is how American voters will view Santorum’s harsh crticism of JFK’s speech, they won’t like it and the evidence of this is all over the net and news.

Jim
 
that’s because the legislation he puts forward is what main stream calls extreme. He has been pushing audit the fed for a long time, but this is a difficult thing to pass because if you are liberal you don’t think the fed should be audited, because it will limit your ability to do what you want, and same with neocons we couldn’t finance the wars that we always fight in. The reason he hasn’t passed legislation is because he goes for extreme legislation.

why this makes me question if he really is pro life, I don’t think it makes it to where he can’t flip back. Plus I don’t like the romney care stuff to much like obama care, and I’m against obama care more then just it funds abortion

I don’t deny this

same with me

don’t think he has much of a chance, nothing in his platform really excites me.

the perfect candidate doesn’t exist and probably will never exist but it doesn’t hurt to ask the question who is best for this country. IMO its Ron Paul, followed by Santorum, then Newt then in a very distant fourth romeny, and even a more distant fifth obama
Yes well you’ve made my point. Ron Paul may have great ideas but they don’t go anywhere but into the ether. He can’t get anything done in Congress because as you claim his ideas are “extreme.” He seems to be unable to either inspire or negotiate or even explain his ideas sufficiently to get any support. Unless you equate the Presidency with a dictatorship (Obama’s theory apparently) his complete inability to move things forward in Congress indicate that he will be no more successful in pushing his ideas/agenda if President. Far as I’m concerned that dog don’t hunt. I think he has a place in the Administration–as I said, turn him on to audit the Fed. Let the games begin!

I believe not only is Romney the best of the group, but he is the only one who can win. Newt is angry, many think Paul is a nut, and Santorum is a reactionary. Obviously I’m the world’s best expert on my own opinion but nothing said on any of these forums has convinced me otherwise. Romney is a problem solver, an executive, a man of ethics and morals with no skeletons, ex wives or ex bimbos in the closet. He’s my guy and I pray every day that he will be nominated as I do not believe any of the others have a chance to beat Obama. Bad as he is, Obama still seems to have a following.

Lisa
 
Yes well you’ve made my point. Ron Paul may have great ideas but they don’t go anywhere but into the ether. He can’t get anything done in Congress because as you claim his ideas are “extreme.” He seems to be unable to either inspire or negotiate or even explain his ideas sufficiently to get any support. Unless you equate the Presidency with a dictatorship (Obama’s theory apparently) his complete inability to move things forward in Congress indicate that he will be no more successful in pushing his ideas/agenda if President. Far as I’m concerned that dog don’t hunt. I think he has a place in the Administration–as I said, turn him on to audit the Fed. Let the games begin!

I believe not only is Romney the best of the group, but he is the only one who can win. Newt is angry, many think Paul is a nut, and Santorum is a reactionary. Obviously I’m the world’s best expert on my own opinion but nothing said on any of these forums has convinced me otherwise. Romney is a problem solver, an executive, a man of ethics and morals with no skeletons, ex wives or ex bimbos in the closet. He’s my guy and I pray every day that he will be nominated as I do not believe any of the others have a chance to beat Obama. Bad as he is, Obama still seems to have a following.

Lisa
This is the way I look at it:

This country is severely obese, figuratively speaking, and we have a few guys offering solutions to lose weight.

Obama has this idea that we can lose weight by eating more…

Romney, Santorum and Newt has the idea that there is a quick fix, each one of them a bit different. One wants to ingest an over the counter pill, the other wants to have surgery and Newt, well he has a pretty good idea to just start eating better but it will never happen because every time he turns around there is a holiday or buffet that he just can’t resist.

Paul, well he has this crazy idea that we just eat right and exercise. But of course, the majority of the country thinks that is just plain nutty, requires too much work on their behalf I guess.

🤷
 
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